German guy
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My only suggestion to you would be to ignore the rantings, ravings and useless actions of the various Occupy groups and look to those who influence, direct and control them. They have their own agenda and it is most assuredly an anti-capitalist agenda.
Yeah, anger is usually not very specific and well defined. Someone will take advantage of it and place himself at the top of such a movement. And often enough, his plans are not even in the interests of his followers.
Capitalism will certainly attempt to buy these protests. Selling shirts with Ché on them is a good business and it will work well, as long as the anger doesn't grow too big. But nobody knows what could happen if it does. We'll see if the system has the capacity for reform.
Do you really think all the other Occupy groups are signing on to the NYCGA? I haven't seen this.
The web site I linked to seem to have their own agenda...they state in the link I provided that "We're not a subcommittee of the NYCGA nor affiliated with Adbusters, anonymous or any other organization.".
Heck, the following site...not affiliated with NYCGA seems to have as much relevance: Occupy Wall Street Demands - coupmedia.org And even THEY don't speak for anyone.
Look, these guys all pride themselves on being leaderless. That means you can't point to any one group and call them the official word. The utterances of any one particular group applies to that group only.
You should probably research Adbusters.
An anti consumerist magazine?
I'm subscribed to it... Its some real "radical" ****.... :roll:
If you are referring to the useful idiots in the parks...who knows and who cares?
If you are referring to those who started this whole shebang...of course they are.
Founder of the magazine..Good...that's a start. At least you have some familiarity with them. Now dig deeper. Who is Lasn?
No idea who White is. But he must be real scary!Who is White? What is their connection with OWS?
An anti consumerist who owns a magazine called ad busters... Real scary!When you have a better understanding of the answers to these questions, you will understand why I made my first post in this thread in answer to the thread title's question:
Founder of the magazine..
He called for OWS movement quite a while ago but he takes no credit it for it.
No idea who White is. But he must be real scary!
An anti consumerist who owns a magazine called ad busters... Real scary!
**** i havent got deep enough in the rabit hole?You need to dig a little deeper.
There are a number of links provided in this thread that are illuminating, though I'll understand if you decline to sift through the large number of posts to find them.
But, until you make a serious effort to become informed, you'll understand if I give little attention to your comments.
**** i havent got deep enough in the rabit hole?
Why dont you just tell me?
What is he a stalinist loving maoist?
Sorry, dude, I'm not going to rehash a thread's worth of discussion for your benefit. It's all here in this thread and in others. If you have any interest beyond your childish, sarcastic one-liners that's up to you.
It is interesting, and it certainly proves my point if this is the offical document. They are protesting greed, but they are greedy themselves.As you learn more about the OWS movement you will find out that all official positions come from the NYC General Assembly of the OWS movement:
"This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!"
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
And join they did, all over the country!
Good...that's a start. At least you have some familiarity with them. Now dig deeper. Who is Lasn? Who is White? What is their connection with OWS?
When you have a better understanding of the answers to these questions, you will understand why I made my first post in this thread in answer to the thread title's question:
I think your just very very scared of something when there is nothing to be scared of.
First off, these are not the only issues OWS care about. Over to the issues.What makes your conspiracy theories laughable to all but the far right, is that the majority of Americans support the main thrust of Occupy Wall Street. Poll after poll we see the majority supports less corporate money for politicians, greater regulation of the banking industry and elimination of the tax cuts for the rich.
First off, these are not the only issues OWS care about. Over to the issues.
Who supports corporate money for politicans?
Regulation is a no brainer, but what kind of regulation?
And tax increases for the rich is due to the fact most Americans are not rich. It is easy to say, let's someone else do it. But that kind of tax increase will just be a drop in the sea, so after the rich tax increase. They will have to increase the taxes again, and that will have to be done to everyone.
If this happens tax increases have now been raised twice for rich Americans federally, but don't forget state taxes and the tax increase from the health care legislation. Many of the rich people will invest abroad or not invest at all, because why invest when the government takes most of your income.
To oppose corporate personhood is just childish. Doesn't corporations have rights and responsibilities. That is corporate personhood, it does not mean they are the same as people's rights.The same ones opposed to campaign finance reform and the removal of corporate personhood - the GOP.
This has nothing to do with too big too fail.HR 1489 to once again establish a firewall between investment banks and commercial banks that prevented banks too big to fail for a half century until the Glass-Steagall bill was repealed - HR 1489 also opposed by the GOP.
Incorrect, they are demanding no tax increases at all, which includes the rich. And do you honestly believe the tax increase on the rich will make any difference what so ever. When Reagan deacresed taxes on the rich from 50% to 28%. Did the poor suddenly become poorer. Did the revenue drop? Did the wages of the poor drop?Taxes for the rich were decreased by popular vote when the people once believed in supply side economics. Now, after 30 year record of failure, people see that was BS! Yet, the GOP still promotes that as their only solution.
First off, every company gets tax deductions. And Obama is not in favor of reversing Bush Tax cuts. If he were, I think he would be doing his job.Thanks to Bush tax cuts, we still provide tax breaks to companies to outsource US jobs. The Democrats have written a bill to end the tax cuts for outsourcing jobs. Guess who is opposing it? You got it, the GOP!
I think your just very very scared of something when there is nothing to be scared of.
What makes your conspiracy theories laughable to all but the far right, is that the majority of Americans support the main thrust of Occupy Wall Street. Poll after poll we see the majority supports less corporate money for politicians, greater regulation of the banking industry and elimination of the tax cuts for the rich.
I don't blame you for your opinion.
As a useful idiot, you don't even know you are being manipulated...or by whom.
Be that as it may, though, what kind of support do y'all think you have from the 99% whom you claim to represent?
I suspect that support is next to nothing.
Aside from calling another poster an idiot I agree, that support is more important then claiming that you are representing people. The KKK and other racists groups claim to be representing white people, which means nothing other than anger against those white supremacy groups for being so arrogant in assuming that they can talk for all white people. OWS is the same they do not represent the 99%, they only claim to. If they have no support from the 99% they dont speak for them.
But lets look at reality for a second. Asserting that the 1% vs the 99% is only going to promote conflict. It is obvious propaganda to promote the tired Leftist agenda that pits the workers against the wealthy. Maybe some of you posters can lie to yourselves or us and pretend that there is no obvious connection between Leftist slogans like "power to the people!" and "We are the 99%!" but I cannot ignore something so damn obvious. And it is an insult to my intelligence that people try to pass that line of BS as if I would not notice.
All I have to do to prove the point that OWS is an Leftist movement hell bent on destroying America and imposing Leftist rule, is to look at the sites that are all abuzz talking about OWS. Take a look at the normal Progressive sites. they are full of many more posters than the few here trying to claim that OWS is not Leftist in nature or anti-Capitalist. Look at all of the signs that were in the protests. There is no conspiracy theory when its all out there in the open like it is in the occupy movement. Lying and trying to claim that OWS is just an movement by normal Americans that are fed up with Wall Streets corruption of the Government is a bit over the top. It might work on the under educated first time voters that thought Obama was going to save the world, but the rest of us know better.
And thats where OWS goes wrong they have not made any effort to include the Right in their little movement. In fact they aim just about all of their rhetoric at the Right. SO much in fact that me an Independent that is an Atheist and opposed myself against a lot of Rightwing bull, gets accused of being a Rightwinger just because I am opposed to OWS for being an Leftist attempt to cause an uprising. Obviously these people are subscribing to the mentality of 'either you are with us or against us'.
In the end OWS represents conflict, and that is all they will ever gain. No one will see OWS as the proper direction that this country should be going, well unless you believe in Anarchy or Communism. OWS is not listening to the so called 99%, instead they are trying to tell the 99% to hate the 1%, when in reality any movement by and for the people should represent the 100% and no less. Equality takes in account 100% of the population, not some percentage of the population. OWS is Americas enemy if our goal as an nation is equality, liberty and justice for all..
I admit that I used you so that I could post the definition of useful idiot, although I guessed that you would post it. lolI didn't call that member an idiot...I called him a useful idiot.
To understand the distinction, do a Google search of useful idiot...read the Wiki.
In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term used to describe people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.
The term was originally used to describe Soviet sympathizers in Western countries. The implication is that although the people in question naïvely thought of themselves as an ally of the Soviet Union, they were actually held in contempt and were being cynically used.
The use of the term in political discourse has since been extended to other propagandists, especially those who are seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause which they naively believe to be a force for good.
Yes, of course. You can see the skinheads by the score on these threads standing in lines to go to gas chambers. An excellent point!I admit that I used you so that I could post the definition of useful idiot, although I guessed that you would post it. lol
Skinheads are useful idiots as well. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that if Nazism was imposed skinheads would be the first to go to the gas chamber.
Scared??? Of what?
Scared of a bunch of useless idiots, camping in the parks...who can't even get the Police to crack their skulls a bit?
No, Sir...I am not scared of the useful idiots. I AM wary of those calling their shots, though. They are the ones who want to end our capitalists system.
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