Is The NRA Wrong? New Study Shows Guns Rarely Used for Self-Defense

[TurtleDude]

It's a lot like immunization. Everyone doesn't have to be vaccinated. If enough people are, the disease has no other easy targets to spread to. It's called "herd immunity". We don't have to go quite that high. (90-95%)

With firearms, when the percentage of concealed carry goes up, so does the chance of a criminal finding himself at the smoky end of a firearm. Criminals are risk adverse and prefer easy targets who are unarmed.

Example: A woman jogger in a sleek outfit and a water bottle, or that same woman with a sleek outfit, water bottle, and a partially unzipped belly pack. Who would a criminal most likely take a pass on?

you're right. back in the day I used to go to Manhattan to play in high level squash tournaments. Now I had a carry permit but it wasn't "good" in NYC. carried anyway. My former college girlfriend, who I have stayed close to-lived on west side of Central park. The club I was playing at was the Uptown Racquet club which was on the upper east side. So I often would walk from 86th and Lexington over to Central Park west. Now on my several journeys-usually at dusk, I would encounter groups of young men that were most likely mopes. Well one day in 1985 I appeared at the building where my girlfriend lived and the doorman greeted me as usual. and He said-I didn't see the cab let you off sir, and I noted I walked over from the URC. and we talked about the Park and I noted that I had seen some urban utes that appeared up to no good. and the doorman-a retired cop-said did they hassle you" and i said no, they didn't say much of anything to me but they made some rude comments to some others.


and the doorman smiled and said-those thugs aren't stupid-you're a 26 year old guy in top shape and you look like you could kill someone if you were pushed to it-they aren't going to hassle you -its not worth it with so many softer targets walking around.

 

[chuckiechan]

I thought for a second I was reading a Mickey Spillane novel!

Good post.

 

[Crimefree]

I thought for a second I was reading a Mickey Spillane novel!

Good post.

Lots of people have this silly misconception criminals are stupid. Yet for a large part they stay one step ahead of the cops. Nor are they into deliberate risk taking unless it is way to good an opportunity.

Why a group of people exists that think criminals are going to obey laws is a terrible statement of our education systems worth in the real world. One wonders what is needed to overcome such foolishness. Possibly they lack the ability to reason.

 

[cpgrad08]

Sometimes you do not need to shoot a person to have the gun protect. A lot the mere presence of one deters criminals. Which has happen to me once. These events are rarely reported to the authorities.

 

[TaterTots]

Personally, my firearm is used for hunting and skeet, but I feel a lot more safe knowing I have a firearm in the house to protect my family if a thug decides to break in.

 

[TurtleDude]

Personally, my firearm is used for hunting and skeet, but I feel a lot more safe knowing I have a firearm in the house to protect my family if a thug decides to break in.

skeet gun at home defense range is a formidable weapon

especially if its a semi auto, though I mainly use a K-80 O/U

 

[Crimefree]

skeet gun at home defense range is a formidable weapon

especially if its a semi auto, though I mainly use a K-80 O/U

Any gun is a whole lot better than no gun. Much like the old adage, a .25 in the hand is better than a .45 in the safe.

 

[Crimefree]

Sometimes you do not need to shoot a person to have the gun protect. A lot the mere presence of one deters criminals. Which has happen to me once. These events are rarely reported to the authorities.

There are some 23 studies to determine how often this occurs of how good armed self defence is. They are all surveys and that is a cause of much debate. However what is shown is that all, everyone of them shows the overwhelming success of armed self-defence.

The most attacked like John Lotts studies is that of criminology Professor Gary Kleck which deliberately sets out to correct for past mistakes.

Here is a good description of these studies.

Kleck-Gertz DGU Freq Study (gunsandcrime)

 

[Lutherf]

Is The NRA Wrong? New Study Shows Guns Rarely Used For Self-Defense
Is The NRA Wrong? New Study Shows Guns Rarely Used for Self-Defense


Personal safety is one of the most-cited reasons to buy a gun. But a new study challenges the assumption that firearms are often used for self-defense.

The Violence Policy Center found that a very small proportion of firearm homicides can be attributed to so-called justifiable situations. Just one-gun death per every 32 criminal gun killings happened in self-defense scenarios in 2012, the most recent year for which data is available. And, while gun advocates argue that they want a firearm handy in their house in case of an intruder, just 0.1 percent of the justified attacks involved property crimes.

“The [National Rifle Association] has staked its entire agenda on the claim that guns are necessary for self-defense, but this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact,” Josh Sugarmann, the executive director of VPC, which conducted the review, said in a statement. “Guns are far more likely to be used in a homicide than in a justifiable homicide by a private citizen. In fact, a gun is far more likely to be stolen than used in self-defense.”

Of the 8,601 total homicides recorded in 2012, just 259 of those deaths were the result of a self-defense scenario, according to the study. There were 13 states in which zero justifiable firearm deaths were logged that year. That no-deaths list included states with relatively strict gun control laws as well as states where firearms are more easily accessible. From New York and New Jersey, with tighter regulation, to Idaho and Montana, known for their love of hunting and opposition to gun control, firearms don’t appear to be used with any real frequency to save one’s self or family, according to the study.

“Purchasing a gun may help enrich the firearms industry, but the facts show it is unlikely to increase your personal safety,” Sugarmann said. “In fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense.” …………..


ALSO SEE:
Personal Safety Top Reason Americans Own Guns Today
http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf
Self-Defense Gun Use is Rare, Study Finds | Violence Policy Center
Lobbying Spending Database - National Rifle Assn, 2015 | OpenSecrets
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000000082&cycle=2014


Since a gun is seldom used "protecting "honey and home" and the cost of a gun.........some might consider installing deadbolt lock in the entry doors..........some what cheaper and more effective and certainly much safer........... than trying to shoot an intruder in the dark.........

Wouldn't you agree?

So your position is that I need to kill someone before my personal self defense using a firearm becomes a meaningful statistic? I mean, if I just wing the perp that doesn't count and it also doesn't count if they see I have a gun and run away?

 

[Crimefree]

So your position is that I need to kill someone before my personal self defense using a firearm becomes a meaningful statistic? I mean, if I just wing the perp that doesn't count and it also doesn't count if they see I have a gun and run away?

That is how gun control cherry picks to make the numbers mean something else. Dishonest you bet, does gun control care that it deliberately lies. There is absolutely no chance of that happening.

 

[imyoda]

So your position is that I need to kill someone before my personal self defense using a firearm becomes a meaningful statistic? I mean, if I just wing the perp that doesn't count and it also doesn't count if they see I have a gun and run away?

Oh stop with the silliness of putting your words in my mouth..........It is a rather silly way to have a discussion about a serious issue......... Try dealing with the information provided rather than an attempt to make me the subject of the string

 

[natsb]

Oh stop with the silliness of putting your words in my mouth..........It is a rather silly way to have a discussion about a serious issue......... Try dealing with the information provided rather than an attempt to make me the subject of the string

Okay. What are your words? The study says a gun is used for defense only if it is used to kill someone. Do you agree? Would you agree that a gun can be used to defend one's self without a death being involved?

 

[imyoda]

Okay. What are your words? The study says a gun is used for defense only if it is used to kill someone. Do you agree? Would you agree that a gun can be used to defend one's self without a death being involved?

I just presented the material/studies.........and never voiced an opinion.............I would suggest you read the material presented FIRST before you might start asking silly questions..........

 

[Citizen.Seven]

259 justified homicides is more than enough, by whatever metric desired, to "justify" the right to keep and bear arms. That's 259 people who are still walking around who might not be if they weren't armed. Since it was justified, that means it met the rigorous tests applied to any homicide. That's of course ignoring how many justified injuries were inflicted, or how many justified brandishings of a weapon were performed. The first should be, theoretically, countable, while at best, the second could only have a minimum number.

Of course, the whole notion of "justifying" a right is silly. One isn't expected to justify the right to speech, or to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures, or other recognized rights but for some reason, the 2A is held to this standard by some.

 

[Crimefree]

I just presented the material/studies.........and never voiced an opinion.............I would suggest you read the material presented FIRST before you might start asking silly questions..........

Why is it a silly question?

If you had read the material first I assume you would know if the figures presented were false or not. Is a successful defence with a gun defined by a dead body? It's not a difficult question.

Did this paper present a factual or incorrect figure?

Could the researchers have been reasonably expected to know which they presented?

So what are the answers?

 

[TurtleDude]

I just presented the material/studies.........and never voiced an opinion.............I would suggest you read the material presented FIRST before you might start asking silly questions..........

why enter a discussion if you refuse to actually voice an opinion? the fact is, most of the banoid studies start with the goal of making gun ownership look bad, and ignore any facts that detract from that goal

 

[natsb]

I just presented the material/studies.........and never voiced an opinion.............I would suggest you read the material presented FIRST before you might start asking silly questions..........

Perhaps it would behoove you to read my post first before, engaging in such a blatant dodge. I specifically asked what your words are. I made no reference to the OP. Let me type slower. If that doesn't help you understand the question, I wil reword it. What are your words?

 

[imyoda]

Perhaps it would behoove you to read my post first before, engaging in such a blatant dodge. I specifically asked what your words are. I made no reference to the OP. Let me type slower. If that doesn't help you understand the question, I wil reword it. What are your words?

Your kindness overwhelms me...........