Is the letter "Z" Putin's new swastika?

[element94]

Still the reality is that nobody is going to fire a missile at Vladimir Putin or invade Russia, and therefore your fantasies flat out don’t work.

Then the west will be very weak indeed.

 

[Tigerace117]

Then the west will be very weak indeed.

An attempt to invade Russia or assassinate Putin is a great way to get tens of millions of Americans killed.

 

[poweRob]

It's abundantly clear that Americans uniting to confront a foreign enemy who is committing atrocities is less important to those Americans who think American liberals are their biggest enemy.

 

[iguanaman]

Still the reality is that nobody is going to fire a missile at Vladimir Putin or invade Russia, and therefore your fantasies flat out don’t work.

Putin's downfall will come from within Russia. Sooner or later enough will realize that he is destroying his own country.

 

[Tigerace117]

Putin's downfall will come from within Russia. Sooner or later enough will realize that he is destroying his own country.

Which doesn’t mean his “downfall” would happen any time soon.....or at all, actually.

 

[Credence]

It certainly appears to be to me. The equipment used the invasion is all marked with z's and not other ID.

Actually there are a couple of symbols and whatever they are they denote evil to me and aggression towards Ukraine.

 

[iguanaman]

Which doesn’t mean his “downfall” would happen any time soon.....or at all, actually.

This failed invasion has weakened Russia significantly and no matter what the final outcome it will be still a failure for Putin. All he has succeeded in is showing the world that courage and valor are all on the side of freedom and democracy. Putin is a hateful thug and always has been.

 

[sanman]

It certainly appears to be to me. The equipment used the invasion is all marked with z's and not other ID.

Z is just an easily painted symbol to differentiate the Russian forces from the Ukrainian ones, since both use same military equipment which is hard to tell apart.
Other than that, there is no significance to the symbol.

You want to see the real Nazi symbols? (btw, the Nazi emblem is actually called the Hakenkreuz, while the Swastika is a Buddhist symbol that's existed for millennia)

The Wulfsangel was a symbol used by Hitler's SS:

Wolfsangel - Reporting Radicalism in Ukraine

reportingradicalism.org

From the emblem of the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich

You'll lie and tell me that's not Nazism, but it's very clear that it is. Even the Ukrainian word for "nation" is "natsiya" and a nationalist is called a "natsi"
So Nazi is not some taboo word in Ukrainian -- it just means someone who is nationalist and supports their nation.
There's no strong barrier or dividing line between their nationalists and Nazi groups, the latter being just an extent or degree of nationalism.

 

[Deuce]

We must all unite in hating the letter Z in all its evil forms.

Anyone who has this vile letter in their name is monster.

That's a weird take

 

[Tigerace117]

This failed invasion has weakened Russia significantly and no matter what the final outcome it will be still a failure for Putin. All he has succeeded in is showing the world that courage and valor are all on the side of freedom and democracy. Putin is a hateful thug and always has been.

Except the invasion isn’t over yet. The Russians are still advancing. Slower than expected, but advancing none the less. Russia didn’t do so hot in Chechnya the first time around but they still won, and odds are this is going to end the same way.

And no amount of buzzwords about “courage and valor” can change that.

 

[iguanaman]

Z is just an easily painted symbol to differentiate the Russian forces from the Ukrainian ones, since both use same military equipment which is hard to tell apart.
Other than that, there is no significance to the symbol.

You want to see the real Nazi symbols? (btw, the Nazi emblem is actually called the Hakenkreuz, while the Swastika is a Buddhist symbol that's existed for millennia)

The Wulfsangel was a symbol used by Hitler's SS:

Wolfsangel - Reporting Radicalism in Ukraine

reportingradicalism.org

You'll lie and tell me that's not Nazism, but it's very clear that it is. Even the Ukrainian word for "nation" is "natsiya" and a nationalist is called a "natsi"
So Nazi is not some taboo word in Ukrainian -- it just means someone who is nationalist and supports their nation.
There's no strong barrier or dividing line between their nationalists and Nazi groups, the latter being just an extent or degree of nationalism.

The leader that is acting like Hitler is Putin. He has chosen not to use Russian insignia on his military equipment for a reason too. This is a new chapter in his reign and requires a new symbol much like the Nazi swastika. The only reason Ukraine has active Nazi's is their admration for Hitler's invasion of Russia. They hate Russia that much. Their country has been abused by Russia for generations and will fight to the death to remain free of them.

 

[Warcok]

z

 

[sanman]

The leader that is acting like Hitler is Putin. He has chosen not to use Russian insignia on his military equipment for a reason too. This is a new chapter in his reign and requires a new symbol much like the Nazi swastika.

Incorrect. Nazism isn't glorified in Soviet history -- Nazism is reviled. When little kids in USA used to play "good guys vs bad guys" games in the schoolyard, they'd play "Americans vs Russians" -- but when Russian kids would play "good guys vs bad guys" they'd play "Russians vs Nazis"
Only clueless types like you would think otherwise, because you don't know better.

No country sacrificed more people fighting the Nazis than the Soviets did. To pretend that Nazi culture and symbols would be respected in Russia is preposterous.
You're subscribing to some Hollywood version of history, where Americans fought all the big battles and carried everybody else.
That's not what actually happened.

The only reason Ukraine has active Nazi's is their admration for Hitler's invasion of Russia. They hate Russia that much. Their country has been abused by Russia for generations and will fight to the death to remain free of them.

Not everybody in Ukraine is an ethnic Ukrainian. One third of the country's population is Russian. If you want them ethnically cleansed, just say so openly.
If you want an Apartheid state, where only certain ethnicities get to vote, then just say so openly.
Otherwise, you're ducking away from the core issues.


Ukrainian govt says that rogue Nazi militias like Azov Battalion have been shut down -- when what actually happened is that they were incorporated into the National Guard.
So they're now the Green Berets of the Ukrainian military.



Notice the Wulfsangel is always prominently on display. The symbol used by Hitler's SS.

 

[sanman]

Notice the Azov troops placing alongside their own flag, the flags of others they admire -- the flags of NATO and the Third Reich

You can imagine how Russians feel when they see these flags all together.

 

[Felis Leo]

Except the invasion isn’t over yet. The Russians are still advancing. Slower than expected, but advancing none the less. Russia didn’t do so hot in Chechnya the first time around but they still won, and odds are this is going to end the same way.

And no amount of buzzwords about “courage and valor” can change that.

I totally agree that the Russians are not down for the count, and their military and leadership can always be relied upon for utter ruthlessness and bringing in the heavy artillery. But it must be remembered that Chechnya is and was a 6,700 square mile region with less than 1.4 million people living in it. If Wikipedia is to be believed, the Russians brought in a combined force of 80,000 to deal with the uprising and obliterate Grozny. Here, Ukraine is a country 233,000 square miles in size with 44 million people living in it. And Russia brought 230,000 soldiers to deal with them. If we are to go by the Chechnya example, the Russians should have fielded an army literally ten times the size of its current one (roughly 2.5 million) to fully overrun Ukraine, surround every major city and crush all resistance, and then occupy the country.

So it bears asking: what does "winning" look like for Russia in this context? Having a country of 40+ million people who despise you under your thumb? Having to play in blood and treasure to for a years or decades-long occupation to support a hated Quisling government or Russian viceroy? All while being cut off from global trade and finance? By any indication, Ukraine will be to Russia what Algeria was to France: A ceaselessly suppurating wound. But at least during Algeria, Charles De Gaulle had the good sense to withdraw and recognize their independence.

 

[Tigerace117]

I totally agree that the Russians are not down for the count, and their military and leadership can always be relied upon for utter ruthlessness and bringing in the heavy artillery. But it must be remembered that Chechnya is and was a 6,700 square mile region with less than 1.4 million people living in it. If Wikipedia is to be believed, the Russians brought in a combined force of 80,000 to deal with the uprising and obliterate Grozny. Here, Ukraine is a country 233,000 square miles in size with 44 million people living in it. It is an order of magnitude greater than the Ukraine. And they brought 230,000 soldiers to deal with them. If we are to go by the Chechnya example, the Russians should have fielded an army literally ten times the size of its current one (roughly 2.5 million) to fully overrun Ukraine, surround every major city and crush all resistance, and then occupy the country.

So it bears asking: what does "winning" look like for Russia in this context? Having a country of 40+ million people who despise you under your thumb? Having to endure a years or decades-long occupation to support a hated Quisling government? All while being cut off from global trade and finance? By any indication, Ukraine will be to Russia what Algeria was to France. A ceaselessly suppurating wound.

Except I haven’t seen any analysis that the Russians want to outright annex Ukraine though. More likely their goal is to carve off enough of the country to weaken it and provide a buffer zone in order to try and reassure their traditional paranoia.

Putin invading was total idiocy and utterly despicable, but frankly I’m more worried about the folks I’ve seen on here calling for us to invade Russia or starting bombing Russian troops. No offense to Ukraine, but it’s not worth global thermonuclear war.

 

[Felis Leo]

Except I haven’t seen any analysis that the Russians want to outright annex Ukraine though. More likely their goal is to carve off enough of the country to weaken it and provide a buffer zone in order to try and reassure their traditional paranoia.

Well, Putin has threatened to extirpate Ukraine as a state. Which can only really be done by annexation. Maybe he would gift Western Ukraine to Belarus?

Putin invading was total idiocy and utterly despicable, but frankly I’m more worried about the folks I’ve seen on here calling for us to invade Russia or starting bombing Russian troops. No offense to Ukraine, but it’s not worth global thermonuclear war.

Well there I agree. I am happy with what we are doing now: The Ukrainians seem more than happy to fight the Russians, and we along with NATO are giving them the tools to fight. I think we should keep doing that until Russia is bled white and withdraws, or the Ukrainians no longer wish to endure the horror that comes with fighting to preserve their independence.

 

[Utility Man]

There are more than 'Z's. The is 'V' and 'O' and more.......

One of these things is (obviously) not like the other.











Anyone who thinks the O's and V's are the same as the Z's, isn't paying attention.

 

[sanman]

Far-right militias in Europe plan to confront Russian forces, a research group says.

The apparent mobilization of far-right groups could be problematic for the Ukrainian government

www.nytimes.com

Far-Right Militias in Europe Plan to Confront Russian Forces, a Research Group Says.​

 

[sanman]

 

[iguanaman]

Incorrect. Nazism isn't glorified in Soviet history -- Nazism is reviled. When little kids in USA used to play "good guys vs bad guys" games in the schoolyard, they'd play "Americans vs Russians" -- but when Russian kids would play "good guys vs bad guys" they'd play "Russians vs Nazis"
Only clueless types like you would think otherwise, because you don't know better.

No country sacrificed more people fighting the Nazis than the Soviets did. To pretend that Nazi culture and symbols would be respected in Russia is preposterous.
You're subscribing to some Hollywood version of history, where Americans fought all the big battles and carried everybody else.
That's not what actually happened.



Not everybody in Ukraine is an ethnic Ukrainian. One third of the country's population is Russian. If you want them ethnically cleansed, just say so openly.
If you want an Apartheid state, where only certain ethnicities get to vote, then just say so openly.
Otherwise, you're ducking away from the core issues.


Ukrainian govt says that rogue Nazi militias like Azov Battalion have been shut down -- when what actually happened is that they were incorporated into the National Guard.
So they're now the Green Berets of the Ukrainian military.



Notice the Wulfsangel is always prominently on display. The symbol used by Hitler's SS.

Actually the Russians have an even longer history of murdering innocent Ukrainians and Stalin murdered millions of them for their nationalism. I guess that means Putin is acting more like Stalin than Hitler. Sorry I messed up. Putin's Stalinism will surely appeal to the Russian people. They all loved Stalin.

 

[Serenity]

Except I haven’t seen any analysis that the Russians want to outright annex Ukraine though. More likely their goal is to carve off enough of the country to weaken it and provide a buffer zone in order to try and reassure their traditional paranoia.

The buffer zone argument is just pathetic Russian propaganda.

Russia has their nukes. They have no legitimate security concern. Ukraine is no threat to them militarily.

Russia has nukes - Isn't that what we keep hearing. That's why the rest of the world leaders are sitting around watching their allies citizen get slaughtered.

Buffer zone my ass. Murdering assholes.

 

[sanman]

Actually the Russians have an even longer history of murdering innocent Ukrainians and Stalin murdered millions of them for their nationalism. I guess that means Putin is acting more like Stalin than Hitler. Sorry I messed up. Putin's Stalinism will surely appeal to the Russian people. They all loved Stalin.

STALIN WAS A GEORGIAN. SO WAS BERIA, HIS INTERIOR SECURITY MINISTER & RIGHTHAND MAN -- THE REAL GUYS WHO STARVED THE UKRAINIANS IN A MASS-FAMINE.
THESE GUYS WERE NOT RUSSIANS.

 

[lwf]

An attempt to invade Russia or assassinate Putin is a great way to get tens of millions of Americans killed.

The gun that ends up in Putin's mouth is unlikely to be of American or European make. There is an opportunity here. The war in Ukraine is only going to get more and more unpopular in Russia thanks to the squeeze of sanctions. The oligarch who manages to get the military leadership on his side and depose Putin could leverage a complete Ukrainian withdrawal in exchange for untold rewards both from the west and from his own people. He could usher in a new era of Russian-NATO cooperation rather than continuing cold war era suspicion and distrust.

Putin is politically, if not physically, more vulnerable than he has ever been.

 

[Tigerace117]

The buffer zone argument is just pathetic Russian propaganda.

Russia has their nukes. They have no legitimate security concern. Ukraine is no threat to them militarily.

Russia has nukes - Isn't that what we keep hearing. That's why the rest of the world leaders are sitting around watching their allies citizen get slaughtered.

Buffer zone my ass. Murdering assholes.

Which doesn’t change the fact that collective paranoia is part of the Russian psyche. They’ve never really gotten over Barbarossa. You can point out how ludicrous all you want, but national paranoia is a powerful driving force.