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Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. r [W:146,164]

tererun

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It seems a few people in the pro-gun community think there are no pro-gun democrats or liberals. That idea has no basis in reality. one reason why it is hard to even get tighter background checks to keep criminals and crazuies from getting guns while allowing law abiding citizens to do so is because there is support for the pro-gun crowd on the democrat and liberal side. To tell the truth real liberals would be in favor of allowing people to enjoy gun ownership in a responsible way. Yes, i know the word liberal has been perverted sort of like how libertarian has been perverted off it's meaning.

I see the views of gun ownership straying further and further from freedoms for responsible people to a partisan rallying point which seems to put dems and libs into the enemy camp. Really, if the right is so pure it should not be a partisan issue, and if it is that important putting the other side into the enemy camp rather than making things bipartisan seems to be self defeating. That is especially considering the present status of the republicans. One should want democrat support instead of making them the enemy because faux news and partisan hacks say you have to. If dems and libs were on your side instead of being declared the enemy and pissed off by the rhetoric they might actually give a damn about your rights. Instead insults are lobbed at the dems and libs which realluy turns most people off or angers them even if they might normally be open to the issue.

For instance let us say you don't own a gun nor want to, but perhaps uyou would not care that someone else does. Next thing you know you have some NRA twat coming up and insulting you and trying their hardest to set you against them and play the victim game. Lots of people who are out there simply will stop caring about your so called rights and just let them be voted away. One of the reasons the gay community has made progress is because many of them are nice people with reasonable requests for things like a marriage contract. the more people meet the gay community and realize most of them are respectable and pleasant people the more they are concerned with their oppression. There is no gay equivelant of a Ted nugent who just pisses people off and does more to aid the opposition than to get people to join his side. How many gay supremists do you know?

gun owners are sort of like gays. Most of them you don't know are out there because it is not something obvious. Anyone could be a gun owner. however, when they have public rallies and actually show themselves in public it normally drags out the crap in the community. Plus it is often a negative consequence when a gun owner makes the news because killing is often considered the extreme. This partisan fighting is very anti-productive for gun owners. It just contributes to the negative image of gun owners while the positive members are often overlooked simply because it is human nature to not be too bothered to think about gun ownership when confronted with a non-hostile pleasant and responsible person. It simply does not matter that person owns a gun.

Some people in the community need to calm themselves down and stop making fights about issues that have nothing to do with your gun ownership. get it out of the partisan hackery. Stop playing the victim and setting neutral or even supporting people on the offense against you.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

It all sounds good till you come with some silly gun control measure that makes you feel good, but doesn't work. And just about 99.999999999% of the time it's a liberal, and they won't get off of it. Like background checks, we already have them. But that's not good enough. The whole business of AR15's, and the fact that they make up a piece of cosmic dust in the universe of all gun crime, but the news and leftist insist on controlling them. Silly **** like that, you won't let it go.
 

CRUE CAB

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

It seems a few people in the pro-gun community think there are no pro-gun democrats or liberals. That idea has no basis in reality. one reason why it is hard to even get tighter background checks to keep criminals and crazuies from getting guns while allowing law abiding citizens to do so is because there is support for the pro-gun crowd on the democrat and liberal side. To tell the truth real liberals would be in favor of allowing people to enjoy gun ownership in a responsible way. Yes, i know the word liberal has been perverted sort of like how libertarian has been perverted off it's meaning.

I see the views of gun ownership straying further and further from freedoms for responsible people to a partisan rallying point which seems to put dems and libs into the enemy camp. Really, if the right is so pure it should not be a partisan issue, and if it is that important putting the other side into the enemy camp rather than making things bipartisan seems to be self defeating. That is especially considering the present status of the republicans. One should want democrat support instead of making them the enemy because faux news and partisan hacks say you have to. If dems and libs were on your side instead of being declared the enemy and pissed off by the rhetoric they might actually give a damn about your rights. Instead insults are lobbed at the dems and libs which realluy turns most people off or angers them even if they might normally be open to the issue.

For instance let us say you don't own a gun nor want to, but perhaps uyou would not care that someone else does. Next thing you know you have some NRA twat coming up and insulting you and trying their hardest to set you against them and play the victim game. Lots of people who are out there simply will stop caring about your so called rights and just let them be voted away. One of the reasons the gay community has made progress is because many of them are nice people with reasonable requests for things like a marriage contract. the more people meet the gay community and realize most of them are respectable and pleasant people the more they are concerned with their oppression. There is no gay equivelant of a Ted nugent who just pisses people off and does more to aid the opposition than to get people to join his side. How many gay supremists do you know?

gun owners are sort of like gays. Most of them you don't know are out there because it is not something obvious. Anyone could be a gun owner. however, when they have public rallies and actually show themselves in public it normally drags out the crap in the community. Plus it is often a negative consequence when a gun owner makes the news because killing is often considered the extreme. This partisan fighting is very anti-productive for gun owners. It just contributes to the negative image of gun owners while the positive members are often overlooked simply because it is human nature to not be too bothered to think about gun ownership when confronted with a non-hostile pleasant and responsible person. It simply does not matter that person owns a gun.

Some people in the community need to calm themselves down and stop making fights about issues that have nothing to do with your gun ownership. get it out of the partisan hackery. Stop playing the victim and setting neutral or even supporting people on the offense against you.
I think your opening statement is wrong.
Usually when anyone calls out dems as being all about gun control, they usually name them. ie Biden, Pelosi, Cuomo, Bloomberg (former), Feinstien etc.
And please quote some "NRA twat" that calls you out for not owning a gun. You dont want to, fine. Just dont tell me I shouldnt. And just how are rallys, and meetings being "just like gays"?
Do gun owners not have the right to assemble?
 

AuntiE

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I think your opening statement is wrong.
Usually when anyone calls out dems as being all about gun control, they usually name them. ie Biden, Pelosi, Cuomo, Bloomberg (former), Feinstien etc.
And please quote some "NRA twat" that calls you out for not owning a gun. You dont want to, fine. Just dont tell me I shouldnt. And just how are rallys, and meetings being "just like gays"?
Do gun owners not have the right to assemble?
When gun owners do assemble, the press very carefully will focus ONLY on the individuals in ball caps, jeans, tee shirts, etc. Not one time will you see the individuals who join the rally who are in "business casual" clothing or jeans and golf shirts, etc. the constant portrayal of gun owners in an unfavorable light continues.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

When gun owners do assemble, the press very carefully will focus ONLY on the individuals in ball caps, jeans, tee shirts, etc. Not one time will you see the individuals who join the rally who are in "business casual" clothing or jeans and golf shirts, etc. the constant portrayal of gun owners in an unfavorable light continues.
Ball cap, jeans and tee shirts. Wow some real trouble makers there. Sounds like 99% of the people down here. And me.
If Iam not at work, its jeans, cargo shorts alot, tee shirts (usually some racing crap on it) and if I dont feel like messing with the do, ball cap from work.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I think at this point, it's most portrayed in terms of team politics than it is a discussion on issues. Obviously there are Democrats who own guns and Republicans who are for tighter controls, but you rarely hear from them in the news.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

"To tell the truth real liberals would be in favor of *allowing* people to enjoy gun ownership in a responsible way"

This is where I stopped reading. It's a right, there's no *allowing to it.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I am a true gun nut. I truly believe all responsible American adults should be well trained in high school and encouraged to carry when adult. I think the NRA and the rabid right wing are both going to have the biggest negative impact on gun rights over the next decade or two. I find it amazing the RWers are lobbying for felon gun rights and have hissy fits when Psych doctors take guns away from people who should not have scissors, making a guy that killed an unarmed minor a hero, putting Ted Nugent on the board of the strongest lobby on the right. It doesnt take much thinking ot see how the right has went off the deep end, over and over...well the right has certainly lost it way.
 

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Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep figh

To tell the truth real liberals would be in favor of allowing people to enjoy gun ownership in a responsible way..
This my entire problem (and I suspect many other's problem). I don't want someone who wants more gun control defining to me what is "responsible." I've had a gun in my hand since I was roughly 4 years old (bb gun, .22, .410 shotgun).

At that age I was taught responsibility. I handled firearms only with an adult present. Pointing the barrel in a safe direction was rule 1 along with treat it like its loaded. 2 was keep the safety on. That is 20 years I have learned, practiced, and shot responsibly.

I also don't like some gun control advocate telling me that "this one little measure" will reduce crime. They've been selling that same lie since long before Brady got shot in service of the nation and his wife had a hissy fit (cynical but true). I don't like it because I know more about firearms than the Brady idiots. As demonstrated by their attempted ban on "cop killers" and "plastic" guns. I know that I can handle any firearm put in my hands...safely.

Hell look over seas. They have warnings on the box for BUTTER KNIVES. Why?
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I am a true gun nut. I truly believe all responsible American adults should be well trained in high school and encouraged to carry when adult. I think the NRA and the rabid right wing are both going to have the biggest negative impact on gun rights over the next decade or two. I find it amazing the RWers are lobbying for felon gun rights and have hissy fits when Psych doctors take guns away from people who should not have scissors, making a guy that killed an unarmed minor a hero, putting Ted Nugent on the board of the strongest lobby on the right. It doesnt take much thinking ot see how the right has went off the deep end, over and over...well the right has certainly lost it way.
I think both parties are floundering in the deep end of the same pool....
 

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Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep figh

I think both parties are floundering in the deep end of the same pool....
I think that is the appearance the media is showing. I never picked Ted nugent to represent me. I'd rather be represented by a small town lawyer, veterinarian, medical doctor, or some other professional who owns his own business and has a degree higher than a bachelor's. Those people don't make the news though.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I think at this point, it's most portrayed in terms of team politics than it is a discussion on issues. Obviously there are Democrats who own guns and Republicans who are for tighter controls, but you rarely hear from them in the news.
It always has been about politics.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep figh

I think that is the appearance the media is showing. I never picked Ted nugent to represent me. I'd rather be represented by a small town lawyer, veterinarian, medical doctor, or some other professional who owns his own business and has a degree higher than a bachelor's. Those people don't make the news though.
Dosent matter who is representing gun owners, they will be vilified by the left as "gun nuts".
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

Looks like the OP poster scurried off. I guess we won the debate. :lol:
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I am a true gun nut. I truly believe all responsible American adults should be well trained in high school and encouraged to carry when adult. I think the NRA and the rabid right wing are both going to have the biggest negative impact on gun rights over the next decade or two. I find it amazing the RWers are lobbying for felon gun rights and have hissy fits when Psych doctors take guns away from people who should not have scissors, making a guy that killed an unarmed minor a hero, putting Ted Nugent on the board of the strongest lobby on the right. It doesnt take much thinking ot see how the right has went off the deep end, over and over...well the right has certainly lost it way.
I have yet to hear from the NRA or any serious person speak to giving felons gun rights.
And the Trayvon Martin case is not about gun rights.
Any one has a right to self defense. I guess until they actually do defend themselves then they are a bad guy.
And dont tell me what Trayvon was or was not doing. You were not there.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

It all sounds good till you come with some silly gun control measure that makes you feel good, but doesn't work. And just about 99.999999999% of the time it's a liberal, and they won't get off of it. Like background checks, we already have them.
WOW!!! :shock: So nobody can buy a firearm legally without a background check!!!! :shock:The things you learn here!!!!! ;)
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I have yet to hear from the NRA or any serious person speak to giving felons gun rights.
And the Trayvon Martin case is not about gun rights.
Any one has a right to self defense. I guess until they actually do defend themselves then they are a bad guy.
And dont tell me what Trayvon was or was not doing. You were not there.
So is it your understanding that the NRA also favors depriving people convicted of crimes which did not involve guns of their Second Amendment rights?

Does the NRA also advocate and support denying these same persons their other rights contained int he Bill of Rights or are they just arbitrarily and selectively discriminating against Second Amendment rights?
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

WOW!!! :shock: So nobody can buy a firearm legally without a background check!!!! :shock:The things you learn here!!!!! ;)
That is not what he said. The fact is we do already have background checks.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

It always has been about politics.
Not for me, it hasn't. For me it's been about common sense and safety. I could not care less which party advocates what position.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

That is not what he said. The fact is we do already have background checks.
If we do not have them for all firearms purchases then we come to the old adage about the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And by your own admission we DO NOT have background checks for some firearms purchases. So either the poster is trying to pull a fast one being dishonest trying to make it look like something is not what it really is or they are simply uninformed and are ignorant about the limited nature of the background checks that do exist.
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

So is it your understanding that the NRA also favors depriving people convicted of crimes which did not involve guns of their Second Amendment rights?

Does the NRA also advocate and support denying these same persons their other rights contained int he Bill of Rights or are they just arbitrarily and selectively discriminating against Second Amendment rights?
Depriving people convicted of crimes any right is constitutional under due process. Is it not?
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

If we do not have them for all firearms purchases then we come to the old adage about the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And by your own admission we DO NOT have background checks for some firearms purchases. So either the poster is trying to pull a fast one being dishonest or they are simply uninformed and are ignorant about the limited nature of the background checks that do exist.
How exactly are you going to have this chain of ALL fire arm purchases without a database violating 4th amendment rights?

I though the liberal stance was we are going to require UBCs but no database would be kept?
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

Not for me, it hasn't. For me it's been about common sense and safety. I could not care less which party advocates what position.
So you feel safety is more important than rights?
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

Depriving people convicted of crimes any right is constitutional under due process. Is it not?
Where does the Second Amendment say you can do that?

What if there is no connection between the crime and a gun? Then there is no logical sense behind it attaching the gun penalty to it .

Why is this only selectively and arbitrary applied to the Second Amendment?

Why are not other rights in the bill of rights also denied to this person?
 

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Re: Is the gun debate about rights, or more of a polarization of a dem vs. rep fight?

I see the views of gun ownership straying further and further from freedoms for responsible people to a partisan rallying point which seems to put dems and libs into the enemy camp.

Some people in the community need to calm themselves down and stop making fights about issues that have nothing to do with your gun ownership. get it out of the partisan hackery. Stop playing the victim and setting neutral or even supporting people on the offense against you.
Of COURSE you do. You side with the people that have expressed their desire and intent to exploit tragedies and restrict gun rights. Pass ANY new law and restriction without thought or regard to whether or not it is the right thing to do or will have a positive effect. And you side with those actions and behaviors. You...kinda answered your own question.
 
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