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Is the GOP A Viable 2nd Party Any Longer?

Is the GOP Still A Viable 2nd Party


  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

Aunt Antifa

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The two areas that strike me as most dangerous where they’re concerned:

- Engagement
- Accountability

Engagement:

We used to engage in a thing called “the battlefield of ideas.” Democrats and Republicans disagreed as to how the country should proceed, it’s goals, priorities, etc. So they would argue about things that mattered, that had consequence. Not always, not necessarily more or less civilly than now. But people argued *ideas*.

Now, virtually every single item of any concern to Americans that the GOP doesn’t want to deal with is “fake news” or a “hoax.”

Covid has killed 180k Americans? Hoax. Fake. Stats are overblown. Not real.

Covid has wrecked the economy. Nope. Jobs are roaring back. Lie.

Let’s focus on these two for a moment. You may believe there’s a different path to getting out of the pandemic. You may believe different players have different levels of responsibility. That’s all fine. Blame “Democrat” governors. But when you insist it’s a hoax, you’re telling 180k grieving families their pain isn’t real. People out of work through no fault of their own are “lazy” and just want a handout. The majority of the country has stated repeatedly that they are displeased with the federal government’s handling of the pandemic. FAKE NEWS! Either the polling is fake or the news is fake or the pandemic is fake. One of or all these things are fake, which makes for a convenient out when trying to defend a disastrous pandemic response. Those countries fake their stats too, amirite?

There is literally no complaint the GOP will take seriously if they don’t want to do the work needed to fix. Especially if their ideology is such that they don’t feel it needs to be fixed, which, again, go for it. But say that. Tell us. Tell us you want herd immunity. Tell us these things. Engage. Argue the point. Argue that herd immunity is better. Show us. Assuage our fears. Lead. Mitch McConnell’s caucus does not even bother conducting any business of the people anymore. House bill after House bill is never brought to the senate floor. Why is that? Because if you debate and argue, minds might be changed. If you don’t engage, you don’t have to be right or wrong.

I should add, and shouldn’t have to: the bills being brought to McConnell represent the *will* of the people. Vote on them. TEll us why you don’t agree.

The lack of engagement leads into lack of accountability. This one is 100% on GOP voters.

The country’s biggest problem isn’t necessarily that Donald TRump is president. If we had a normally functioning congress and SC with checks and balances, we would be able to weather the worst of trump’s dumbest impulses. BUt the GOP base’s only interest is in triggering liberals. There is zero appreciation for the idea that whatever you think of TRump, the notion that he needs no guardrails isn’t objectively sane. it wouldn’t be sane for *any* president. Our founders did not create all of this just so the senate can look up at whomever is in the WH and say “Sure thing, boss!” Politicians are usually craven. If GOP voters demanded more from Trump, *accountability*, the nation and their own candidate would probably be in better position.

These two areas are, for me, the biggest underlying reasons that create the environment for everything else. If you can label problems as a hoax, and insist your leadership is always right, I cannot see how the nation improves, grows, gets safer, richer from such a tribal viewpoint.

The GOP as it is presently constituted is an anti-democratic institution at war with its own country because they want access to our money, just not our problems and they have a base that feels as long as they get theirs, whatevs.

Not sustainable. We need a viable 2nd party (I’d like more than that, but baby steps.)
 
Democratic Party = Racist Slavery Party.
 
The GOP is not the Party of Lincoln, but because of how the Republocrats have rigged the system they'll be a "viable" party since there's no way 3rd parties can challenge the Oligarchy effectively.
 
The GOP of Eisenhower et. al. doesn't exist anymore. It has been shanghaied by the reactionary Party of Trump.

There can be no accommodation with such an anti-American ideology.

My :twocents:
 
It's a cult now.
 
The two areas that strike me as most dangerous where they’re concerned:

- Engagement
- Accountability

Engagement:


I should add, and shouldn’t have to: the bills being brought to McConnell represent the *will* of the people. Vote on them. TEll us why you don’t agree.

The lack of engagement leads into lack of accountability. This one is 100% on GOP voters.

The country’s biggest problem isn’t necessarily that Donald TRump is president. If we had a normally functioning congress and SC with checks and balances, we would be able to weather the worst of trump’s dumbest impulses. BUt the GOP base’s only interest is in triggering liberals. There is zero appreciation for the idea that whatever you think of TRump, the notion that he needs no guardrails isn’t objectively sane. it wouldn’t be sane for *any* president. Our founders did not create all of this just so the senate can look up at whomever is in the WH and say “Sure thing, boss!” Politicians are usually craven. If GOP voters demanded more from Trump, *accountability*, the nation and their own candidate would probably be in better position.

These two areas are, for me, the biggest underlying reasons that create the environment for everything else. If you can label problems as a hoax, and insist your leadership is always right, I cannot see how the nation improves, grows, gets safer, richer from such a tribal viewpoint.

The GOP as it is presently constituted is an anti-democratic institution at war with its own country because they want access to our money, just not our problems and they have a base that feels as long as they get theirs, whatevs.

Not sustainable. We need a viable 2nd party (I’d like more than that, but baby steps.)

The Republican Party since the beginning of the Great Depression has always been the smaller of the two major parties, which they still are today. Now they have always been a viable 2nd party, they are still that today. Party affiliation history shows the Democratic Party averaged 45% of the electorate from Truman until Reagan. During Truman and Eisenhower the Republican Party made up roughly 35% of the electorate, but after IKE dropped to an average of 25% until Reagan.

Reagan caused a huge party affiliation shift, the Democrats dropped from an average of 45% down to 35% while the Republicans rose from 25% to 30%. Independents had risen from 20% under Truman to now 30% under Reagan.

The Democratic Party continued their average of 35% until Obama when they started slowly dropping again. The Republican began their drop mainly under G.W. Bush. Today party affiliation rests at 31% Democrat, 26% Republican, 41% independent.

Trends in Party Identification, 1939-2014 | Pew Research Center

So the GOP is basically back to where they were pre-Reagan under JFK, LBJ and Nixon. The Democrats are at their lowest ebb since probably 1928 which stats don't go back that far.

1964 was the Democratic Party's zenith when 51% of the electorate identified themselves as Democrats vs. 25% for Republicans. Since 1964, the Democratic Party has dropped to 31% while the Republican Party has remained basically the same, 25% vs. 26%. Independents have risen from 23% in 1964 up to 41% today.

Which leads to the conclusion, neither party is really liked much. It's a real sad state of affairs when those with no political party they can call home out number the members of the Democratic Party and out number the members of the Republican Party. Now together the two major parties make up 57% of the total electorate to out number independents 57-41. But neither major party can win without attracting the independent voter.

I view this as the constant drift of the GOP to the right and the Democratic Party drifting left leaving a plurality of Americans, mostly in the center, center left and center right with out a party who's ideology reflect their
political views.
 
The Republican Party since the beginning of the Great Depression has always been the smaller of the two major parties, which they still are today. Now they have always been a viable 2nd party, they are still that today. Party affiliation history shows the Democratic Party averaged 45% of the electorate from Truman until Reagan. During Truman and Eisenhower the Republican Party made up roughly 35% of the electorate, but after IKE dropped to an average of 25% until Reagan.

Reagan caused a huge party affiliation shift, the Democrats dropped from an average of 45% down to 35% while the Republicans rose from 25% to 30%. Independents had risen from 20% under Truman to now 30% under Reagan.

The Democratic Party continued their average of 35% until Obama when they started slowly dropping again. The Republican began their drop mainly under G.W. Bush. Today party affiliation rests at 31% Democrat, 26% Republican, 41% independent.

Trends in Party Identification, 1939-2014 | Pew Research Center

So the GOP is basically back to where they were pre-Reagan under JFK, LBJ and Nixon. The Democrats are at their lowest ebb since probably 1928 which stats don't go back that far.

1964 was the Democratic Party's zenith when 51% of the electorate identified themselves as Democrats vs. 25% for Republicans. Since 1964, the Democratic Party has dropped to 31% while the Republican Party has remained basically the same, 25% vs. 26%. Independents have risen from 23% in 1964 up to 41% today.

Which leads to the conclusion, neither party is really liked much. It's a real sad state of affairs when those with no political party they can call home out number the members of the Democratic Party and out number the members of the Republican Party. Now together the two major parties make up 57% of the total electorate to out number independents 57-41. But neither major party can win without attracting the independent voter.

I view this as the constant drift of the GOP to the right and the Democratic Party drifting left leaving a plurality of Americans, mostly in the center, center left and center right with out a party who's ideology reflect their
political views.

Majority of Americans identify with Democrats’ positions on most items ideologically because the Dems actually represent main stream America now. GOP offers nothing to the middle (which isn’t a thing, but for the purposes of this convo, we’ll just go with it).


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The GOP is not the Party of Lincoln, but because of how the Republocrats have rigged the system they'll be a "viable" party since there's no way 3rd parties can challenge the Oligarchy effectively.

True, but they should change their name to something more fitting and allow the Republicans to get back to their own ideals.
It would be a fun game on what the new rightwing Party should be named, but don't think they can use the trump name, since his days are numbered, unless they back the idiot children, plus trump would want copyrights and a cut.
 
Majority of Americans identify with Democrats’ positions on most items ideologically because the Dems actually represent main stream America now. GOP offers nothing to the middle (which isn’t a thing, but for the purposes of this convo, we’ll just go with it).


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That is why the Dems lead the GOP not only among low income voters but also the Suburban middle income Voters.
 
Pretty much everything the left says about the right is the same crap the right says about the left. Oh the comedy....

peewee.jpg
 
Now, virtually every single item of any concern to Americans that the GOP doesn’t want to deal with is “fake news” or a “hoax.”

Covid has killed 180k Americans? Hoax. Fake. Stats are overblown. Not real.

Covid has wrecked the economy. Nope. Jobs are roaring back. Lie.

1. I had a physical yesterday, and my doctor, who is an immigrant from India, told me in no uncertain terms that covid deaths are not being calculated correctly, because these deaths do not account for underlying conditions which may also cause death or contribute to the death. He also believes any vaccine will be rushed to market too soon.

2. Covid did not wreck the economy. State and local governments wrecked the economy by using criminal law to shut businesses down.
 
Majority of Americans identify with Democrats’ positions on most items ideologically because the Dems actually represent main stream America now. GOP offers nothing to the middle (which isn’t a thing, but for the purposes of this convo, we’ll just go with it).


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That changes constantly which is why we have had so many wave elections lately. 1994, 2006, 2010, 2018. Prior to 1994 the last wave election was in 1948. It's independents, I prefer swing voters who switch back and forth that are deciding these elections. It's not the party faithful.

What you say may be true today or I would say it's more having a dislike of Trump than agreeing with the Democrats that led to 2018 and a probable Biden win in 2020. I would also add, that the Democrats won't see this election for what it actually is. A rejection of Trump, but not an adoption or approval of Democratic Party ideals. They'll think they have a mandate, they'll over reach, thus the swing voters who voted Democratic in 2018 and most likely in 2020 will switch to the Republican Party giving them back the House in 2022. Just like Obama did during his first two years. Write that down.

54% of all Americans have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party, while 61% view the Republican Party unfavorably. So voting for the party's candidate you dislike the least will like in 2018 carry the Democrats to victory in 2020. But which party will be disliked the least in 2022. My prediction, the Democratic Party who will think they have their mandate instead of realizing this election was all about rejecting Trump and not a jump on the Democratic Party agenda train. You'll see. This is the way things work. Especially when 40% of the electorate are non-affiliated and switch back and forth in their voting habits.
 
The GOP is not the Party of Lincoln, but because of how the Republocrats have rigged the system they'll be a "viable" party since there's no way 3rd parties can challenge the Oligarchy effectively.

The constitution favors a two party system as an unintended consequence of the single member districts. That doesn't mean that those parties can't change. It the GTP continues to deteriorate, a new party may overtake it.
 
The constitution favors a two party system as an unintended consequence of the single member districts. That doesn't mean that those parties can't change. It the GTP continues to deteriorate, a new party may overtake it.

We are certainly stable at 2 main parties, and there's nothing theoretically to prevent those parties from changing. In fact, they probably should be turned over from time to time. But there's a plethora of rules with campaign finance and access to debates that artificially suppresses political competition and relegates 3rd parties to positions where they cannot compete and cannot affect necessary change within the main parties. So the GOP is here to stay, as is the DNC. This is how the Oligarchy rigged the game to prevent them from losing power.
 
1. I had a physical yesterday, and my doctor, who is an immigrant from India, told me in no uncertain terms that covid deaths are not being calculated correctly, because these deaths do not account for underlying conditions which may also cause death or contribute to the death. He also believes any vaccine will be rushed to market too soon.

2. Covid did not wreck the economy. State and local governments wrecked the economy by using criminal law to shut businesses down.

People continue to live with underlying conditions unless they get COVID.
 
The News we get today is so distorted by confirmation bias and partisanship that it's become confusing vaguery. Both parties seem to obfuscate the real problem, the influence of big money in politics and policy.
 
As long as they are able to maintain power, they are viable.

The question is: Are the methods used by the GOP to maintain power ethical or legal, and how can the Democrats counter the GOP's attempts at voter suppression?
 
1. I had a physical yesterday, and my doctor, who is an immigrant from India, told me in no uncertain terms that covid deaths are not being calculated correctly, because these deaths do not account for underlying conditions which may also cause death or contribute to the death. He also believes any vaccine will be rushed to market too soon.

2. Covid did not wreck the economy. State and local governments wrecked the economy by using criminal law to shut businesses down.


Why did you make it a point to tell me your doctor is from India?
 
True, but they should change their name to something more fitting and allow the Republicans to get back to their own ideals.
It would be a fun game on what the new rightwing Party should be named, but don't think they can use the trump name, since his days are numbered, unless they back the idiot children, plus trump would want copyrights and a cut.

I have a better question for you:

What is it the “new” or “old” GOP would stand for? How’s this for a sub-q: Due to changes in demographics, economies, understanding of intersectionality issues, is conservatism an ideology that has any relevance for majority of Americans moving forward?

The GOP’s answer is clearly “no” as they seek to establish a set of conditions in which the EC acts as a firewall against the actual will of the country.


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People continue to live with underlying conditions unless they get COVID.

If a stage 4 cancer patient dies in a car crash, THEY DIDN’T ****ING DIE OF CANCER.

Car crash = covid.

Duh.


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The News we get today is so distorted by confirmation bias and partisanship that it's become confusing vaguery. Both parties seem to obfuscate the real problem, the influence of big money in politics and policy.

Money is the central problem in politics, I do not agree both parties are the same.

The GOP willfully lies to us constantly. Not just small oopsie-I-banged-my-babysitter-lies. Stuff having to do with our health and wellbeing. Joni Earnst questioning covid deaths is one of the most cynical, gross derelictions of leadership I’ve ever seen in my life. My heart goes out to her constituents because she just declared not a single one of them means anything to her.

This is the modern day GOP. Gaslighting their *own voters*.


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If the Democrats were still like they were when JFK was president, I would still be a Democrat. Unfortunately, the party has been taken over by the vagina hat wearing, politically correct, elite liberal wacko faction, with a sprinkling of depression era American style communism thrown in. No thanks.
Used to be, the Dems were the party of the working man. No longer.
 
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