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Is the democratic party holding the nation (US) hostage for political reasons?

Is the democratic party responsible for the US government shutdown?

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Maximus Zeebra

Maximus Zeebra

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Alright, so the US government has shutdown over 5 billion dollars that the democratic party and the "establishment" refuses to grant the US government to spend on the Mexico border. Considering the US government annual spending of 2500 billion dollars per year, of which 5 billion is barely 0.2%, is this a reasonable reason for the democratic party in the US to refuse the spending of 5 billion and to cause the ongoing government shutdown? 5 billion is not even 1% of what the US spends on defence each year. If the demoratic party said yes to the 5 billion spending, the government shutdown would be over immediately. Could they do it? Are there good enough reasons not to do it?
 
Both sides are responsible. Doesn't matter who said that they would own it. Doesn't matter which side is blaming who. It takes two to tango. Both sides could have stopped this from happening in the first place. Both sides could end it RIGHT NOW.
 
Is the democratic party responsible for the US government shutdown?
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no. Trump is.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Alright, so the US government has shutdown over 5 billion dollars that the democratic party and the "establishment" refuses to grant the US government to spend on the Mexico border. Considering the US government annual spending of 2500 billion dollars per year, of which 5 billion is barely 0.2%, is this a reasonable reason for the democratic party in the US to refuse the spending of 5 billion and to cause the ongoing government shutdown? 5 billion is not even 1% of what the US spends on defence each year. If the demoratic party said yes to the 5 billion spending, the government shutdown would be over immediately. Could they do it? Are there good enough reasons not to do it?
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If trump would drop the wall it would also end immediately. Remember trump is the one that said Mexico would pay for it so he’s holding the nation hostage because of his lying,
 
It is not the point of the money at all. The candidate that was donald trump said clearly, repeatedly that he was going to build a wall and mexico would pay for it. If you were my neighbor and I told you I just bought this new car and you're going to pay for it. What do you think your reaction would be? President trump's campaign promise to his base means nothing to me other than he lied to his base. For telling that lie and then demanding the democrats give him billions or he's going to shut down the government is a terrorist kind of move, something a kidnapper would do. I'll hold the country hostage if you don't pay. So he told us all in plain english that everyone could understand he clearly claimed he would take the mantle for shutting down the government and not blame the democrats. We all know this so if we as a nation crumble to his demands, what's gonna happen when the democrats take control and do the same thing to republicans, like repealing the second amendment? Think before you leap folks.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Alright, so the US government has shutdown over 5 billion dollars that the democratic party and the "establishment" refuses to grant the US government to spend on the Mexico border. Considering the US government annual spending of 2500 billion dollars per year, of which 5 billion is barely 0.2%, is this a reasonable reason for the democratic party in the US to refuse the spending of 5 billion and to cause the ongoing government shutdown? 5 billion is not even 1% of what the US spends on defence each year. If the demoratic party said yes to the 5 billion spending, the government shutdown would be over immediately. Could they do it? Are there good enough reasons not to do it?
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People forget that $5.8 billion is merely a down-payment on what Trump wants. Not only that, but he was already given 1.6 billion last year that has not been spent yet. This whole mess will happen every time Trump wants another 5.8 billion for a wall that's never going to happen. The estimates of what he, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity want, is projected to cost between 40 and 100 billion. How many future government shutdowns will it take for Trump to deliver on a campaign promise?
 
They are both responsible, as all either has to do is "give in" completely to the other side's demands.

However, after the last two speeches by the President, especially the one today (01/19/19), I think I will hold the Democrat's unwillingness to offer/accept a "real" compromise a little more responsible than I do the President's insistence on $5+ Billion for border wall construction in exchange.
 
Bottom line... Trump lied while campaigning and made a promise to his base that will never happen. He told the American populace he would own the shutdown, and he can't run from this fact. Those who voted for him got duped by one of his lies. end of story..
 
Kal'Stang said:
Both sides are responsible. Doesn't matter who said that they would own it. Doesn't matter which side is blaming who. It takes two to tango. Both sides could have stopped this from happening in the first place. Both sides could end it RIGHT NOW.
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So you've said in every thread on the subject. But repeating a lie does not make it true, it only makes the duped think it is true. Fortunately, the choir you've been singing to has been steadily shrinking. For the benefit of others:


"I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals, and people that have lots of problems, and drugs pouring into our country," Trump said. "So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it — the last time you shut it down, it didn't work. I will take the mantle of shutting it down. And I'm going to shut it down for border security."

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-trump-blame-democrats-2018-12





What are some other things he said about shutdowns in the past? What is his history?

:thinking

Well, one thing begins with a reflection on the fact that the focus will be on the President during a shutdown (9/13), and is expanded later:

"You have to get everybody in a room. You have to be a leader. The president has to lead. He has to get (the Speaker of the House) and everybody else in a room, and they have to make a deal. You have to be nice and be angry and be wild and cajole and do all sorts of things, but you have to get a deal. And, unfortunately, he has never been a dealmaker. That wasn't his expertise before he went into politics and it's obviously not his expertise now. But you have to get the people in a room and you have to get a deal."


(10/13)

https://www.politifact.com/facebook...ump-criticize-obama-during-2013-government-s/

There's plenty more on him blaming Obama for the shutdown, which resulted from the GOP's maneuvering to try to defund "Obamacare." A last minute slimeball move. The GOP refused to so much as approve continuing funding resolutions. It lasted 16 days. McConnell managed to realize the problem with this and worked with Reid. As house Boehner claimed, "We fought the good fight, we just didn't wi"



Too many people like to pretend that only the last word matters. So long as the Dems said "no" to GOP game-playing, said people were happy to pretend the situation was in any way their fault. Nope. The GOP has been doing this. Trump did it again.

You may think it sounds objective and independent to declare "it takes two to tango", but when you do that you cannot help saying that the Democrats are to blame for not giving in to Trump's demands. (Avoid confusion between "logical entailments" and "assumptions"). Because, again, he met with them, said he demanded 5 billion for the wall, said he would shut down governmnet if he didn't get it, then did just that. No amount of lies can change that.






Or, perhaps, should the police give those bank robbers a helicopter, a submarine, and a bunch of weapons, because if they don't, the police are to blame when the bad men shoot the hostages?
 
Yes, they should. There was bipartisan support in 2006 - In 2006, the Secure Fence Act passed with bipartisan support requiring the construction of physical barriers along 700 miles of the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Sixty-four Democrats voted the measure in the House and 26 in the Senate.- and 2013. The only difference is the amount requested is smaller, and the problem at the border is bigger.
 
Mexico will pay for it, not how you want, but they will. There are millions of illegals working here, and a good chunk of them don't pay taxes. They do, however, send a BILLIONS back home. From CNN "Mexicans sent home $26.1 billion from January to November 2017, according to figures released Tuesday by the central bank of Mexico. That's the most ever recorded and better than the $24.1 billion sent in 2016 over the same period. "
In addition, illegal immigration also costs us BILLIONS a year. To think that it won't cost Mexico and won't help us if we spend $6 Billion is an outlandish belief.
 
kayness said:
Mexico will pay for it, not how you want, but they will. There are millions of illegals working here, and a good chunk of them don't pay taxes. They do, however, send a BILLIONS back home. From CNN "Mexicans sent home $26.1 billion from January to November 2017, according to figures released Tuesday by the central bank of Mexico. That's the most ever recorded and better than the $24.1 billion sent in 2016 over the same period. "
In addition, illegal immigration also costs us BILLIONS a year. To think that it won't cost Mexico and won't help us if we spend $6 Billion is an outlandish belief.
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The wall isn't going to be built....deal with it....
 
kayness said:
Mexico will pay for it, not how you want, but they will. There are millions of illegals working here, and a good chunk of them don't pay taxes. They do, however, send a BILLIONS back home. From CNN "Mexicans sent home $26.1 billion from January to November 2017, according to figures released Tuesday by the central bank of Mexico. That's the most ever recorded and better than the $24.1 billion sent in 2016 over the same period. "
In addition, illegal immigration also costs us BILLIONS a year. To think that it won't cost Mexico and won't help us if we spend $6 Billion is an outlandish belief.
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The numbers don't reflect the fact that there U.S. were taxes paid on that money sent back to their families. It wasn't earned tax-free. Just take the DACA people for example, a total of 1.3 million young undocumented immigrants who are enrolled or eligible for DACA contribute $2 billion a year in taxes, state and local, according to the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy. More than 75 percent of DACA permit holders are employed and despite their tax contributions, dreamers are not necessarily eligible for the benefits their tax money goes toward.
 
Logician Man said:
The wall isn't going to be built....deal with it....
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As you know part of the wall was already built prior to Trump being President. So your statement may already be false. Putting that aside has anyone done an honest assessment of adding several hundred thousand largely uneducated,unskilled workers into our economy. Perhaps it is the way I think but would like to see a full analysis of the net cost or benefit of slowing this flow.

One could ask ask what the morality is of allowing these unskilled workers into the country so they can be exploited by low pay and benefits. These people may aptly be called the 21st century slaves we are importing.
 
This is 100% on Trump. Stop holding federal workers and civilian contractors hostage and negotiate in good faith.
 
Helix said:
no. Trump is.
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He was elected by the people to build a damn wall. The only reason the Democrats want to stop it is because Trump. It's stupid.

I don't have a dog in this race but people are now being hurt because of politicians playing some political game.
 
Black Dog said:
He was elected by the people to build a damn wall. The only reason the Democrats want to stop it is because Trump. It's stupid.

I don't have a dog in this race but people are now being hurt because of politicians playing some political game.
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Mexico is paying for the wall, so the point is moot.
 
Build the Wall.
 
The right (GOP) does not want a democratic republic anymore...too messy, can't get the votes.

Two times in a row needed the undemocratic electoral college (and a very partisan SCOTUS) to get a POTUS

So they shutdown govt. in a desire for one-party autocracy. That's all the right has now.

The right has no content and no clothes and a desire for fascism.
 
Is it possible for the government to be shut down for non-political reasons?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Alright, so the US government has shutdown over 5 billion dollars that the democratic party and the "establishment" refuses to grant the US government to spend on the Mexico border. Considering the US government annual spending of 2500 billion dollars per year, of which 5 billion is barely 0.2%, is this a reasonable reason for the democratic party in the US to refuse the spending of 5 billion and to cause the ongoing government shutdown? 5 billion is not even 1% of what the US spends on defence each year. If the demoratic party said yes to the 5 billion spending, the government shutdown would be over immediately. Could they do it? Are there good enough reasons not to do it?
Click to expand...

No TRUMP is responsible give equal or more blame to anybody else is just pure biased dishonesty or ignorance

then after that you can also put some blame on both sides but its mainly Trump thats just common sense and reality
 
Kal'Stang said:
Both sides are responsible. Doesn't matter who said that they would own it. Doesn't matter which side is blaming who. It takes two to tango. Both sides could have stopped this from happening in the first place. Both sides could end it RIGHT NOW.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Trump had a tantrum, and is the one who said "give me my wall or I will hold the government hostage until you give it to me".

This is clearly not a both sides issue. Trump started this, and this is going to finish with his ass being kicked for being such a jerk.
 
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