Is the Bill of Rights based on the Ten Commandments?

[Rich2018]

The origin of the 10 Commandments is the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

The Bill of Rights was passed long before George III ascended to the throne, indeed it was long before George I was crowned.

 

[NotreDame]

Stating that Natural Law Rights and Liberties is one of the sources of the Bill of Rights begins the confusion. Locke talked about Natural Law but never anything called Natural Law Rights and Liberties and Rich asks for sources. ND takes umbrage, posts unpleasant characterizations, increases his own confusion about his statement and loses track of the entire conversation. The main problem is that ND doesn't write well and often doesn't realize what he has written makes very little sense, doesn't understand what other's are saying to him, misquotes others and acts preposterously pompous.

Stating that Natural Law Rights and Liberties is one of the sources of the Bill of Rights begins the confusion. Locke talked about Natural Law but never anything called Natural Law Rights and Liberties

What I in fact said was, “Another source was Natural Law Rights and Liberties, primarily a Lockean notion of natural liberty.”

I never linked “Natural Law Rights and Liberties” to Locke. I linked Locke to his notion of natural liberty. You clearly failed to take into account the use of the comma.

The “begins the confusion” is you ignoring some of the basic rules of the English language, here particularly the purpose and use of a comma, and in doing so leads to your own, in fact, confusion that there’s confusion. Which is to say, what I said is confusing to someone blissfully unaware of and/or ignoring how a comma works.

Natural Law Rights were invoked heavily by the founding fathers, in which Lockean notions of natural liberty primarily influenced their concept of Natural Law Rights. Specifically the natural law included rights, natural rights, fundamental rights, rights in the natural law that superseded human laws and could not be infringed by the government but government exists to preserve those rights. These natural rights were part and parcel of the natural law, and the natural law was believed to be an objective reality, observable in human nature and deduced by reason, as created by God, in which kings, monarchs, and governments were to be subjected to and exist to protect.

So, what I said makes sense, of course, to those who understand how and why commas are used.

 

[Rich2018]

Natural Law Rights were invoked heavily by the founding fathers, in which Lockean notions of natural liberty primarily influenced their concept of Natural Law Rights. Specifically the natural law included rights, natural rights, fundamental rights, rights in the natural law that superseded human laws and could not be infringed by the government but government exists to preserve those rights. These natural rights were part and parcel of the natural law, and the natural law was believed to be an objective reality, observable in human nature and deduced by reason, as created by God, in which kings, monarchs, and governments were to be subjected to and exist to protect.

So, what I said makes sense, of course, to those who understand how and why commas are used.

Then the founders should have listed the "natural rights" they wanted their new United States to recognize.

 

[NotreDame]

Double post

 

[NotreDame]

Then the founders should have listed the "natural rights" they wanted their new United States to recognize.

They listed some of what they understood as natural rights.

 

[Rich2018]

They listed some of what they understood as natural rights.

"Some" ?

The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were listed in the DOI, but not the Constitution.

 

[RF667799]

"Some" ?

The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were listed in the DOI, but not the Constitution.

Yes, some.
Is it your position that rights listed in the Constitution exhaust the category? If so, the Constitution itself contradicts you on that point.

 

[NotreDame]

"Some" ?

The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were listed in the DOI, but not the Constitution.

To the contrary, “liberty” is in the 5th amendment, the Writ of Habeus Corpus, AKA “Great Writ of Liberty” is in the Constitution, and other kinds of liberty find enumeration in the BOR.

The right of conscious, to decide one’s religious faith and practices, is reflected in the two religion clauses of the 1st amendment. Liberty finds its way in the 4th amendment qualifying when the state may take your liberty by seizing you.

Property, a perceived natural right like liberty, is protected in the BOR.

Broadly speaking, the Constitution and its enumeration of powers protects natural rights, liberty included, as any power not granted or necessary and proper to an enumerated power is denied.

 

[Rich2018]

To the contrary, “liberty” is in the 5th amendment, the Writ of Habeus Corpus, AKA “Great Writ of Liberty” is in the Constitution, and other kinds of liberty find enumeration in the BOR.

No, liberty is not in the 5th amendment
Arrest without trial is
There are other ways of restricting your liberty.

The right of conscious, to decide one’s religious faith and practices, is reflected in the two religion clauses of the 1st amendment. Liberty finds its way in the 4th amendment qualifying when the state may take your liberty by seizing you.

Great.

Property, a perceived natural right like liberty, is protected in the BOR.

Slavery, the ownership of one human being by another, is also protected in the original Constitution.

Broadly speaking, the Constitution and its enumeration of powers protects natural rights, liberty included, as any power not granted or necessary and proper to an enumerated power is denied.

No, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are NOT specifically protected in the Constitution
How can you say that liberty is protected in the Constitution or BOR when the Constitution protected the institution of slavery ???

 

[NotreDame]

No, liberty is not in the 5th amendment
Arrest without trial is
There are other ways of restricting your liberty.



Great.







How can you say that liberty is protected in the Constitution or BOR when the Constitution protected the institution of slavery ???

My god man, you can look this up in a Google search.

No, liberty is not in the 5th amendment

“nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

Do you see the word liberty? Do you? The word liberty is in the 5th amendment. Wake the hell up man.

Arrest without trial is

In the 5th amendment to the U.S. Constitution? Where man?

“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

Slavery, the ownership of one human being by another, is also protected in the original Constitution.

So the hell what. I didn’t say “original” constitution. I said, “Property, a perceived natural right like liberty, is protected in the BOR.”

Your reply is irrelevant to what I said.

No, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are NOT specifically protected in the Constitution

I never said it was. YOU, YOU, originally brought that phrase, not me. I, yes I said, “Broadly speaking, the Constitution and its enumeration of powers protects natural rights, liberty included, as any power not granted or necessary and proper to an enumerated power is denied.”

And I’m under no obligation to adopt whatever the hell comes into your mind and spills itself in a post. Thank God.

As for your concluding questions, I’m not here to educate you. I’m not here to be your professor or teacher. You need to discover the answers for yourself.

 

[mrjurrs]

Retired general and conspiracy theorist Michael Flynn spoke at a campaign rally this past Saturday for MAGA pastor Jackson Lahmeyer who is running against fellow Republican, Sen. James Lankford. During his rather incoherent speech, I guess he learned from Donnie, that America needs to get back to the Christianity that the nation was founded upon. After stating that the word "Creator" may be read four times in the Constitution, he also said the following:


If the Bill of Rights isn't based on the Ten Commandments, what is the origin of those enumerated rights?

In case you don't know, the word "Creator" is not in the Constitution nor is the word "God".

No.

Which amendment would relate to

• You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

 

[Rich2018]

My god man, you can look this up in a Google search.

“nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

Do you see the word liberty? Do you? The word liberty is in the 5th amendment. Wake the hell up man.

As I said, there are other ways of restricting liberty.
The 5th merely guards against restricting liberty, by means of arrest

When Patrick Henry melodramatically exclaimed "Give me liberty, or give me death!", he was not incarcerated was he ?

I never said it was. YOU, YOU, originally brought that phrase, not me. I, yes I said, “Broadly speaking, the Constitution and its enumeration of powers protects natural rights, liberty included, as any power not granted or necessary and proper to an enumerated power is denied.”

But the Constitution doesn't grant the rights of liberty or life.

And I’m under no obligation to adopt whatever the hell comes into your mind and spills itself in a post. Thank God.

Is anyone under any "obligation" to adopt whatever the hell comes into your mind and spills itself in a post ?

As for your concluding questions, I’m not here to educate you. I’m not here to be your professor or teacher. You need to discover the answers for yourself.

A simple "I don't know" would suffice.

 

[NotreDame]

As I said, there are other ways of restricting liberty.
The 5th merely guards against restricting liberty, by means of arrest

When Patrick Henry melodramatically exclaimed "Give me liberty, or give me death!", he was not incarcerated was he ?



But the Constitution doesn't grant the rights of liberty or life.



Is anyone under any "obligation" to adopt whatever the hell comes into your mind and spills itself in a post ?



A simple "I don't know" would suffice.

I do know the answers, but I’m not here to be your professor. And in all candor, m our interaction together, more specifically the manner in which you’ve conversed with me in a misleading, caustic and irrational manner very recently at this forum elsewhere, doesn’t render me inclined to answer your questions.

And you’re as wrong with “The 5th merely guards against restricting liberty, by means of arrest” as you were wrong when you said “No, liberty is not in the 5th amendment.”

 

[Rich2018]

I do know the answers, but I’m not here to be your professor. And in all candor, m our interaction together, more specifically the manner in which you’ve conversed with me in a misleading, caustic and irrational manner very recently at this forum elsewhere, doesn’t render me inclined to answer your questions.

And you’re as wrong with “The 5th merely guards against restricting liberty, by means of arrest” as you were wrong when you said “No, liberty is not in the 5th amendment.”

Then you miss the whole point of debate - it's not an exercise in contradiction.

 

[fmw]

The short answer is NO.
The origin of those enumerated Rights came as a result of thinking by Jefferson and Madison the writer.

Indeed. The purpose of the bill of rights was written to limit the power of government. The ten commandments were written to limit the behavior of individuals. Nothing in the bill of rights relates to the public.

 

[ataraxia]

If the Bill of Rights isn't based on the Ten Commandments, what is the origin of those enumerated rights?

In case you don't know, the word "Creator" is not in the Constitution nor is the word "God".

Why don't we ask some of its authors?

" If men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history... [T]he detail of the formation of the American governments... may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had any interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven... it will for ever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses... Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favour of the rights of mankind.”
― John Adams, The Political Writings of John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States of America, 1787

 

[Gordy327]

Why don't we ask some of its authors?

" If men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history... [T]he detail of the formation of the American governments... may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had any interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven... it will for ever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses... Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favour of the rights of mankind.”
― John Adams, The Political Writings of John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States of America, 1787

That is the proverbial smoking gun proof that the Founding Fathers never intended for religious ideology to mix with the government or law, thereby ensuring a separation of church and state.

 

[ataraxia]

That is the proverbial smoking gun proof that the Founding Fathers never intended for religious ideology to mix with the government or law, thereby ensuring a separation of church and state.

You don't need a "smoking gun". They couldn't possibly be more clear on the matter:

"'The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
-John Adams

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.”
-James Madison

"It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; and that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion. The example of Holland proved that a toleration of sects, dissenting from the established sect, was safe & even useful. The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom.... We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Gov. "
-James Madison

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"They [the Christian clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries...Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?"
-James Madison

"Mingling religion with politics may be disavowed and reprobated by every inhabitant of America...All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish (Muslim), appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-Thomas Paine

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity."
-James Madison

(See Next Post)

 

[ataraxia]

“Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?”
-James Madison

“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory..., more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
-Thomas Jefferson

“Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”
-Thomas Jefferson — Notes on Virginia

"The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it’s (sic) protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word “Jesus Christ,” so that it should read “a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion” the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it’s (sic) protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.”
- Thomas Jefferson, autobiography, on the Bill to Establish Religious Freedom in Virginia


Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

[ataraxia]

"The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedent — that of total separation of Church and State. No religious establishment by law exists among us. The conscience is left free from all restraint and each is permitted to worship his Maker after his own judgment. The offices of the Government are open alike to all. No tithes are levied to support an established Hierarchy, nor is the fallible judgment of man set up as the sure and infallible creed of faith. The Mohammedan, if he will to come among us would have the privilege guaranteed to him by the constitution to worship according to the Koran; and the East Indian might erect a shrine to Brahma, if it so pleased him. Such is the spirit of toleration inculcated by our political Institutions… The Hebrew persecuted and down trodden in other regions takes up his abode among us with none to make him afraid. …and the Aegis of Government is over him to defend and protect him. Such is the great experiment which we have tried, and such are the happy fruits which have resulted from it; our system of free governement would be imperfect without it. "
-John Tyler, July 10, 1843

 

[Gordy327]

You don't need a "smoking gun". They couldn't possibly be more clear on the matter:

"'The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
-John Adams

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.”
-James Madison

"It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; and that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion. The example of Holland proved that a toleration of sects, dissenting from the established sect, was safe & even useful. The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom.... We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Gov. "
-James Madison

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"They [the Christian clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries...Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?"
-James Madison

"Mingling religion with politics may be disavowed and reprobated by every inhabitant of America...All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish (Muslim), appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-Thomas Paine

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity."
-James Madison

(See Next Post)

I agree. But there are those who think separation was never intended or does not exist. Or that it works only 1 way to religion's favor.

 

[Deuce]

lol there's no ****ing overlap between the two lists and our country is expressly not founded on a religion

 

[weaver2]

Indeed. The purpose of the bill of rights was written to limit the power of government. The ten commandments were written to limit the behavior of individuals. Nothing in the bill of rights relates to the public.

The Bill of Rights were written down so people would know that in this new form of government they had rights that could not be taken away from them. Ironically 5 ultra-religious members of the Supreme Court just did.

 

[fmw]

The Bill of Rights were written down so people would know that in this new form of government they had rights that could not be taken away from them. Ironically 5 ultra-religious members of the Supreme Court just did.

Yes they wanted to let people know about what the government cannot do. The supreme court justices you oppose did not remove a right. They determined that the abortion not a constitutional right as many legal scholars have believed since roe V wade was decided. So they ended federal government's role in it and moved it to the voters. You think religious beliefs are bad? I have no religious beliefs at all but consider them good for society.