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Is the 2nd Ammendment still applicable in today's society?

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EdgyPav

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Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
 
NOPE.
 
"is the second ammendment (sic) still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?"
It is important today, and still important for same reasons as before, when it was amended into the Constitution.
 
No amendments are important any more or haven't you heard? You're kidding yourself if you think you have any unalienable rights. Those days are long gone.
 
I think the Founders created the 2nd Amendment the way they did because 1) who could live without a gun in those days, 2) they didn't know if England (or even France or Spain) were going to invade us again and 3) there were slave populations to control.
 
1. The Second Amendment was put in place so that citizens could defeat a rogue US Army. That seems silly now, but back in 1776 the only other republic we could compare ours to was Rome and Rome's military was the greatest threat to the Roman republic.

The US Army has been very loyal to the Constitution, with the only exception being one Civil War. And you could argue that the Confederate Army wasn't the US Army.

2. When the Second Amendment was written the average shooter could only fire a round every 30 seconds. You can run pretty far away in 30 seconds time. Weapons like the AR15 have way too much firepower. The average person can fire over a 100 rounds a minute with even more accuracy than the 1776 muskets.

3. The National Guard has taken over the militia job. Governors have control over their National Guard units. The National Guard is provided with modern weapons and training that gives them a good chance of surviving on a modern battlefield.


So no, there's no longer a reason for the 2nd Amendment.

That said, I don't think anyone wants to take guns away from responsible people. But they do want to take guns away from irresponsible people.



.
 
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EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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Of course otherwise Chinese and Russian citizens would have guns.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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Protecting against an over-powerful government was one reason, but not the only reason. Protecting against animals and other humans was also important. None of those reasons have changed.

In any case, it doesn't matter if anyone thinks the 2nd Amendment is still applicable...because, as long as it's in the Constitution it IS applicable. Whether anyone thinks it is or not.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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No, it was to provide the states with a protection against over-bearing government in the form of a militia.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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The purpose of the 2nd amendment is so that we the people have the means to defend ourselves against invasions and possibly our own government should it become tyrannical as well as self defense. That will never change.
 
jamesrage said:
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is so that we the people have the means to defend ourselves against invasions and possibly our own government should it become tyrannical as well as self defense. That will never change.
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LMFAO

Somebody watched "Red Dawn" and thought it was a public information film.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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Either all the amendments are applicable to today or none of them are.
 
Rich2018 said:
What about the 18th ?
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What about it? The 18th was an amendment to ban the manufacture and sales not outlaw the consumption. The 21st took care of that train wreck.
Rich2018 said:
Are you saying that the repeal of any amendment invalidates the whole Constitution ?
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My point to the OP was it seems people key in on the 2nd stating what they think the Founding Fathers meant and that they could not have predicted this or that, etc. and using that as a basis for wanting to repeal it. I believe all the amendments are important.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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Are we doing your homework for you? If so, then you are in trouble. :D

There is really no doubt that the original intent of the 2A was to ensure that militias were sufficiently armed. The framers were worried by attempts by the British to seize arms (e.g. at Concord and Lexington). It's right in the language of the 2A itself.

Obviously, as the US developed a standing army, militias have become increasingly obsolete. As a result, the gun extremists have attempted to rewrite history and insist that the 2A "always" meant an individual right -- even though it says no such thing.

As a result, the right wing of the SCOTUS, in a ruling that can only be seen as a mockery of the "Originalism" of the author of the ruling (Scalia), rewrote history and claimed that the 2A secretly meant to protect an individual right, despite its own language. However, that ruling has made almost no difference whatsoever -- as shown by the rampant failure of almost every one of the thousand lawsuits challenging existing laws, including a refusal yesterday to hear challenges to federal laws that bar gun ownership for those convicted of serious misdemeanors.

Is the 2A "important?" IMO, it's little more than a rhetorical device. Anyone who thinks a right can't possibly be infringed because of a few words on a moldy piece of paper is a fool; American history, especially when it comes to slavery, segregation, and civil rights, makes that very clear. The truth is that rights will only be defended as long as enough of the public actually cares to defend that right.
 
jamesrage said:
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is so that we the people have the means to defend ourselves against invasions and possibly our own government should it become tyrannical as well as self defense. That will never change.
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lol, no.

Some -- but certainly not all -- of the 1st generation pols were concerned that a standing army would make the federal government too powerful, so they wanted to make sure militias would always be able to bear arms. As a result, they wanted to make sure the government couldn't disarm the militias.

There was never any assumption that militias would violently overthrow the federal government on the regular.

It should also be screamingly obvious that the actual US military would utterly decimate a bunch of disorganized ex- and wanna-be soldiers that want to overthrow the government. Don't be fooled by a bunch of thugs catching Congress unawares and being escorted out with kid gloves.

Anyway. The US has had a standing army for a long, long time, and militias (as understood in the late 18th century) are long, long gone. Thus, the purpose of the 2A is obsolete.
 
Artymoon said:
What about it? The 18th was an amendment to ban the manufacture and sales not outlaw the consumption. The 21st took care of that train wreck.
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Because you said:

Either ALL the amendments are applicable to today or none of them are.
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The 18th Amendment is included in "all"


Artymoon said:
My point to the OP was it seems people key in on the 2nd stating what they think the Founding Fathers meant and that they could not have predicted this or that, etc. and using that as a basis for wanting to repeal it. I believe all the amendments are important.
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Including the 18th ?

The 2nd Amendment is obsolete and the concept of a militia is an 18th century relic.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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Is the First Amendment still applicable in today's society?

Of course.
 
EdgyPav said:
Originally the founding fathers created the second ammendment so citizens could protect themselves against an over-powerful government. This motivation stemmed from the minds of those creating a country from the ground up. So, with our society developed as much as it is today, is the second ammendment still important? And is it important for the same or different reasons?
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of course it is because the natural right the founders wanted to guarantee with the second amendment , is the right of self defense for free citizens. I don't see the need for self defense going away anytime soon
 
Rich2018 said:
Because you said:



The 18th Amendment is included in "all"




Including the 18th ?

The 2nd Amendment is obsolete and the concept of a militia is an 18th century relic.
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Correct, but the 18th answers to the 21st now. For me, being able to defend oneself will never be obsolete.
 
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