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Is Snowden a patriot?

Is Snowden a patriot?

  • Absolutley! The people have the right to know!

    Votes: 37 56.1%
  • No

    Votes: 19 28.8%
  • NO WAY!

    Votes: 10 15.2%

  • Total voters
    66

John Liberty

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Is Snowden a patriot for leaking that the NSA was tapping thousands of phone calls without warrants?
 

Mathematician

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I hope Obama drones his ***!
 

John Liberty

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I hope Obama drones his ***!

Rather then using abusive language against Snowden, why don't you elaborate on why you think he deserves to die? This is the problem with most people, they would rather soak in whatever the media tells them and use logical fallacies to make their point rather then intelligently explain their position.
 

Mathematician

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Rather then using abusive language against Snowden, why don't you elaborate on why you think he deserves to die? This is the problem with most people, they would rather soak in whatever the media tells them and use logical fallacies to make their point rather then intelligently explain their position.

You're right, that is the problem with most people. However, I teach classified applied math to our military and know how infosec works.

When you take a position requiring trust and break that trust, the consequences should be proportional to the degree of trust that was given. For example, cops breaking the law should receive harsher sentences than civilians. Moreover, an intentional breach is the worst kind. This wasn't like a slip of the tongue. In particular, releasing secrets for enemies is about as unpatriotic as it gets. Lastly, I find life sentences to prison pointless, so just kill him and get it over with.
 

John Liberty

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You're right, that is the problem with most people. However, I teach classified applied math to our military and know how infosec works.

When you take a position requiring trust and break that trust, the consequences should be proportional to the degree of trust that was given. For example, cops breaking the law should receive harsher sentences than civilians. Moreover, an intentional breach is the worst kind. This wasn't like a slip of the tongue. In particular, releasing secrets for enemies is about as unpatriotic as it gets. Lastly, I find life sentences to prison pointless, so just kill him and get it over with.

First off: Snowden did not release information to the "enemy", unless you consider U.S citizens the enemy.

Second off: Snowden did not compromise our national security! I get sick of saying this! He was trying to let his country know that they do not live in the free country they think they do. Telling people that the NSA is spying on their phone calls does NOT compromise our security. Snowden didn't leak blueprints for a bomb, or battle strategies for a war. He leaked that the government was breaking the laws in place for THEM.
 

Mathematician

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First off: Snowden did not release information to the "enemy", unless you consider U.S citizens the enemy.

Second off: Snowden did not compromise our national security! I get sick of saying this! He was trying to let his country know that they do not live in the free country they think they do. Telling people that the NSA is spying on their phone calls does NOT compromise our security. Snowden didn't leak blueprints for a bomb, or battle strategies for a war. He leaked that the government was breaking the laws in place for THEM.

1. WTF do you think he went to HK and RU for?
2. Say it all you want, you're wrong.
 

John Liberty

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1. WTF do you think he went to HK and RU for?
2. Say it all you want, you're wrong.

He went to HK because people like you want to kill him! You just expect him to stay in the U.S and be executed for telling the truth!
 

polgara

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He is no patriot

Glad to see you, Pero! :2wave: Missed you!

I'm curious. Why is he not a patriot, IYV? Is it because of what he originally did, or the fact that he fled after the fact? :confused:
 

Perotista

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Glad to see you, Pero! :2wave: Missed you!

I'm curious. Why is he not a patriot, IYV? Is it because of what he originally did, or the fact that he fled after the fact? :confused:

Pol, if all he was interested in was letting the American People know about the eavesdropping, he would have reported it to a congressman or a senator or even a friendly news paper reporter and let them dig more into it. But this was not the case, he actually went into areas or compartments he had no business of being in while at NSA. He was looking for a lot more than just being a whistle blower.

Where he went, China, Russia etc with a few lap tops I think explains a lot. Time will tell to actually what game he is/was playing and perhaps for whom. One can be sure, there is much more below the surface than meets the eye. There are plenty of games all the countries of the world play on each other. I will sit back and watch as usual and see how everything plays out.

But the idea of our government spying or eavesdropping in on its citizens shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone with two bits of common sense and some knowledge of today’s technology. The government has been spying on its own people at least since the days of J Edgar Hoover.
 

Paschendale

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Undertaking personal risk in an attempt to better one's country sounds pretty patriotic to me.
 

Helix

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it's not nearly as simple as the choices in the OP. it would be more clear cut had he released the info as the Pentagon papers were released. his choice to leave the country and the way he is releasing the info puts it more into a gray area.

as for whether he's a hero or a patriot, i'll just say that i'm glad we're finally having a national conversation about this now. talking about him distracts from that conversation.

the real topic : if total information awareness can prevent terrorist attacks, do we want that? can we trust the government with that power? i'd argue no.

given this, we have to accept that sometimes intelligence is not going to be able to connect the dots, and more attacks will be successful. as much as i dislike the thought of this, i'm so uncomfortable with the current setup that i can't support it. if we want a program like Prism, we need to amend the constitution.
 

Einzige

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No, and we ought to be thankful for it. A 'patriot' wants to surrender his autonomy to the collective, to deny his individuality and his conscience - in a word, to value the whole over himself.

Snowden is a free man. A 'patriot' is not.
 

Einzige

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This question, incidentally, reminded me of an exerpt from Max Stirner's Der Einzige und Sein Eigentum:

I have no need to take up each thing that wants to throw its cause on us and show that it is occupied only with itself, not with us, only with its good, not with ours. Look at the rest for yourselves. Do truth, freedom, humanity, justice, desire anything else than that you grow enthusiastic and serve them?

They all have an admirable time of it when they receive zealous homage. Just observe the nation that is defended by devoted patriots. The patriots fall in bloody battle or in the fight with hunger and want; what does the nation care for that? Joy the manure of their corpses the nation comes to "its bloom!" The individuals have died "for the great cause of the nation," and the nation sends some words of thanks after them and—has the profit of it. I call that a paying kind of egoism.
 
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sKiTzo

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This is a no-brainer. Yes, the man is a hero. History has shown that when a government begins to turn on its own citizens, it is time to replace that government. This is a time-sensitive issue. They have openly declared that Thomas Jefferson and people (such as doomsday preppers) who wish to retain the right to protect themselves, are terrorists.

Meanwhile, they've used our tax dollars to build elaborate underground cities that will benefit only them in a doomsday scenario, and they are arming themselves to the teeth in preparation for something (?). Large unprecedented purchases of hollow-point rounds not by the military, but by agencies that operate domestically, like the SSA, EPA, DHS, and I believe even the weather bereau made a purchase. Hollow-points are not used for training - which is the reason they gave.
To those who comment that Snowden is a traitor: your comments are indicative of your failure as a US citizen because you are unwittingly supporting dictatorship and fascism.
 

Jack Hays

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This is a no-brainer. Yes, the man is a hero. History has shown that when a government begins to turn on its own citizens, it is time to replace that government. This is a time-sensitive issue. They have openly declared that Thomas Jefferson and people (such as doomsday preppers) who wish to retain the right to protect themselves, are terrorists.

Meanwhile, they've used our tax dollars to build elaborate underground cities that will benefit only them in a doomsday scenario, and they are arming themselves to the teeth in preparation for something (?). Large unprecedented purchases of hollow-point rounds not by the military, but by agencies that operate domestically, like the SSA, EPA, DHS, and I believe even the weather bereau made a purchase. Hollow-points are not used for training - which is the reason they gave.
To those who comment that Snowden is a traitor: your comments are indicative of your failure as a US citizen because you are unwittingly supporting dictatorship and fascism.

Snowden is dirt.
 

justabubba

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1. WTF do you think he went to HK and RU for?
2. Say it all you want, you're wrong.

then offer us proof what he said was wrong
until you do, Snowden should be found a whistleblower, and patriot
 

DaveFagan

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Snowden is dirt.

Standard CIA response. The trees are blocking your vision of the forest. Check somehow to see if you have actually been programmed/propagandized by an overdose type exposure to opinions contrary to common sense and patriotism. Patriotic to what is a good place to start.
 

Ikari

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When you take a position requiring trust and break that trust, the consequences should be proportional to the degree of trust that was given.

So like how the government is in a position of trust and break that trust by illegally spying and taking other actions against our rights and liberties without due process?
 

Mathematician

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then offer us proof what he said was wrong
until you do, Snowden should be found a whistleblower, and patriot

Apply some common sense. If what's being done by the NSA is so darn evil then why is it that only one in tens of thousands of civilian employees and contractors goes ape **** over what's going on? :roll:
 

justabubba

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Apply some common sense. If what's being done by the NSA is so darn evil then why is it that only one in tens of thousands of civilian employees and contractors goes ape **** over what's going on? :roll:

your reply is devoid of common sense
you would have us believe that the nation's employees and contractors would never do anything which violates the law


show us why his argument should be found wrong
all we now have is ... nothing
 

Mathematician

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So like how the government is in a position of trust and break that trust by illegally spying and taking other actions against our rights and liberties without due process?

Spying must be well-defined. Witnessing the source and destination of communication is legal.
 
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