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Is Santorum too extreme?

Dittohead not! said:
That he can do, with the approval of Congress, of course. What do you think the odds are that Roe v Wade will ever be overturned?
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From 2001 to 2007, the Republicans had a sitting president in the White House, majorities in both Houses of Congress and a Supreme Court composed of a majority of GOP appointees.

Given that having the executive, executive and the judiciary all in same political alignment in quite unusual in America politics, it is difficult to understand why there wasn't a concerted effort to overturn Roe v Wade during that 4 year window of opportunity.
 
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jgarden47 said:
From 2001 to 2007, the Republicans had a sitting president in the White House, majorities in both Houses of Congress and a Supreme Court composed of a majority of GOP appointees.

Given that having the executive, executive and the judiciary all in same political alignment in quite unusual in America politics, it is difficult to understand why there wasn't a concerted effort to overturn Roe v Wade during that 4 year window of opportunity.
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See the Sheik's post above.
 
Wiggen said:
Because he 'stands for something'? Really? that's the criteria? Hitler stood for something. Stalin stood for something. Every right wing demagogue in the world has stood for something.

Santorum is a loon - especially about social issues. I'm praying he gets the Republican nomination. If he couldn't handle Mitt Romney in last night's debate, Barack Obama will destroy him.
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Uh, yeah, that was the criteria in '08 and it still is today. Why? Because most of the country takes what politicians say at face value. All you have to do is say what they want to hear, and they'll vote for you. Remember "Hope and Change!!!" (I don't have a plan) "I'll Build a Base on the Moon!!" (Not really, just saying that cause I'm in Florida), "Everyone Should Have Health Care!!" (Not really, I'm just in a Lib state and trying to be Governor), "No Earmarks!!!" (Unless they go to my state), I could keep going with this, but I won't.
 
jgarden47 said:
From 2001 to 2007, the Republicans had a sitting president in the White House, majorities in both Houses of Congress and a Supreme Court composed of a majority of GOP appointees.

Given that having the executive, executive and the judiciary all in same political alignment in quite unusual in America politics, it is difficult to understand why there wasn't a concerted effort to overturn Roe v Wade during that 4 year window of opportunity.
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Because, by and large, the GOP leadership knows that banning abortion would only make things worse. They may not like abortions, but it's better than back-ally knife jobs, abandoned newborns, and all the troubles that come from unplanned, unwanted pregnancies -- but they need to pick up votes outside of industry and the very wealthy, so they dangle this out every election season, talk about Jesus a little, pick up the religious vote, then promptly forget about it once they're back in office.

They've been using that same shtick for decades.
 
They haven't yet gone into all of Santorum's past declarations.

For example, he supported keeping inter-racial marriages illegal and supported keeping contraceptives illegal. He has also stated that government should regulate what sexual acts a couple - married or not - may or may not be engaged in, and has stated that the Constitution does not grant anyone a right to privacy, among other extremes of his wanting the government to control the conduct and dictate relationship allowances and sexuality restrictions and requirements.
 
joko104 said:
They haven't yet gone into all of Santorum's past declarations.

For example, he supported keeping inter-racial marriages illegal......
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Do you have proof of this? If so, please post it. That will make me put him on the definite do not vote for list.
 
Well, given that I just read an article from Santorum claiming that a christian cannot be a liberal, I don't know if I would call Santorum extreme in most things, but that view certainly is.
 
megaprogman said:
Well, given that I just read an article from Santorum claiming that a christian cannot be a liberal, I don't know if I would call Santorum extreme in most things, but that view certainly is.
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I think he's eluding to the fact that most (not all) liberals are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I think he's eluding to the fact that most (not all) liberals are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage.
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Then he is still wrong.

Religious preferences are not the same thing as political preferences. I will use libertarianism as an example, Ron Paul is not a fan of abortion, but he is not going to try to pass any federal law banning it.

Second, there is no clear scriptural basis in being anti abortion (I see some for being anti homosexuality, but that is a matter of interpretation too, its a bit vague), just vague references to pregnancy and unborn children that can be honestly interpreted in all sorts of ways. These are two stances that are not really spelled out in black in white scripturally.
 
megaprogman said:
Then he is still wrong.

Religious preferences are not the same thing as political preferences. I will use libertarianism as an example, Ron Paul is not a fan of abortion, but he is not going to try to pass any federal law banning it.

Second, there is no clear scriptural basis in being anti abortion (I see some for being anti homosexuality, but that is a matter of interpretation too, its a bit vague), just vague references to pregnancy and unborn children that can be honestly interpreted in all sorts of ways. These are two stances that are not really spelled out in black in white scripturally.
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I can tell you why he views it the way he does. Most Christians view abortion as murder. It is viewed as the right of God and only God to decide if the fetus that is being aborted actually lives or dies. I agree with him, but, I am just telling you this from a Christian perspective and from the perspective he is coming from. That is why, as a Christian, I do not agree with capitol punishment. If Christians want to be on one end of the spectrum and say women have no right to kill a fetus in their body then we can't say that we have the right to electrocute someone for a crime. Again, its up to God whether they live or die. Its complicated because you can get into a whole slew of issues like war, etc that would have to be explained.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I can tell you why he views it the way he does. Most Christians view abortion as murder. It is viewed as the right of God and only God to decide if the fetus that is being aborted actually lives or dies. I agree with him, but, I am just telling you this from a Christian perspective and from the perspective he is coming from. That is why, as a Christian, I do not agree with capitol punishment. If Christians want to be on one end of the spectrum and say women have no right to kill a fetus in their body then we can't say that we have the right to electrocute someone for a crime. Again, its up to God whether they live or die. Its complicated because you can get into a whole slew of issues like war, etc that would have to be explained.
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You are making the same mistake he is, you are assuming your perspective is the objective christian perspective. However, given that Jesus did not immediately condemn the centurian for being a soldier, killing is not immediately frowned on, but it is circumstantial, I think. For example, in turning the other cheek, to me, this is in the context of exuding a christ like behavior in showing the world who Jesus is, so one must act a certain way to be an advertisement for the faith. However, I digress.

Yes, for those who view it as murder, and given that we should not murder, I see where you are coming from. However, the crux of the matter is whether it is murder. This is a question I have personally attempted to answer looking at the bible and all sorts of commentaries and I simply cannot find a conclusive answer that is black and white. Thankfully I have never been put in the situation where I must decide (all of my children were planned) because I cannot find the data to support my decision either way.
 
Yet, while it may seem paradoxical, a country's abortion rate is not closely correlated with whether abortion is legal there. For example, abortion levels are quite high in Latin American countries, where abortion is highly restricted. (In fact, 20 million of the 46 million abortions performed annually worldwide occur in countries with highly restrictive abortion laws.) At the same time, abortion rates are quite low throughout Western Europe, where the procedure is legal and widely available. Also, Eastern and Western Europe have the world's highest and lowest abortion rates, respectively, yet abortion is generally legal throughout the Continent.

If legality is not the determining factor, what drives the rates at which abortions occur in a given country? .....

In sharp contrast, even in countries where abortion is legal and widely available, abortion rates are low if couples practice contraception effectively to limit or space births. In the Netherlands, for example, where abortion has been legal and widely accessible for many years, abortion and unintended pregnancy rates are low because of widespread contraceptive use.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/ib_0599.html
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America's Christian conservatives are wrong on 2 counts.

1. Republicans seek the proLife vote but have done little to overturn Roe v Wade even when they had control of the White House, both Houses of Congress and a majority of GOP appointees in the Supreme Court.

2. ProLife supporters are under the illusion that repealing Roe v Wade and making abortion illegal will solve the problem. International studies conducted by The Alan Guttmacher Institute have shown that "a country's abortion rate is not closely correlated with whether abortion is legal there. For example, abortion levels are quite high in Latin American countries, where abortion is highly restricted."

When conservative individuals (Santorum) and groups (the Catholic Church) attempt to reduce the use of contraceptives, they are also sabatoging their own efforts to reduce the abortion rate. Access to birth control and the abortion rate are closely linked.
 
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megaprogman said:
You are making the same mistake he is, you are assuming your perspective is the objective christian perspective. However, given that Jesus did not immediately condemn the centurian for being a soldier, killing is not immediately frowned on, but it is circumstantial, I think. For example, in turning the other cheek, to me, this is in the context of exuding a christ like behavior in showing the world who Jesus is, so one must act a certain way to be an advertisement for the faith. However, I digress.

Yes, for those who view it as murder, and given that we should not murder, I see where you are coming from. However, the crux of the matter is whether it is murder. This is a question I have personally attempted to answer looking at the bible and all sorts of commentaries and I simply cannot find a conclusive answer that is black and white. Thankfully I have never been put in the situation where I must decide (all of my children were planned) because I cannot find the data to support my decision either way.
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I didn't even read the rest of your post after the first sentence. I said MOST over and over so I wouldn't make the same mistake he makes. I'm not in a vacuum where I think everyone believes what I do. However, the majority of Christians do believe this.
 
what I don't get is why Santorum brings Satan into the party? I mean why does he say Satan this and Satan that? From where I live which is not US but Australia it sounds verrrrry strange!

what has Satan to do with anything? I mean Satan doesn't even exist.... better bring Mickey Mouse!:mrgreen:
 
Mya said:
what I don't get is why Santorum brings Satan into the party? I mean why does he say Satan this and Satan that? From where I live which is not US but Australia it sounds verrrrry strange!

what has Satan to do with anything? I mean Satan doesn't even exist.... better bring Mickey Mouse!:mrgreen:
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I agree with you there. As an atheist, I fully expect to have to vote into office someone who believes in the existence of God and Satan, but they cross the line for me when they start injecting God, or in this case Satan, into the conversation. Essentially, Santorum is making politics some sort of universal battle of good vs. evil. Saying that Satan is out to get the USA and is behind the collapse of the culture sounds paranoid and childish. Not exactly the type of qualities one wants in his president.
 
Fletch said:
I agree with you there. As an atheist, I fully expect to have to vote into office someone who believes in the existence of God and Satan, but they cross the line for me when they start injecting God, or in this case Satan, into the conversation. Essentially, Santorum is making politics some sort of universal battle of good vs. evil. Saying that Satan is out to get the USA and is behind the collapse of the culture sounds paranoid and childish. Not exactly the type of qualities one wants in his president.
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Unless, of course, it's true that satan has turned his focus on the U.S., in which case, it's not paranoia. :mrgreen:

Seriously, I've just read a Bill O'Reilly piece that addresses this:

The Devil and Rick Santorum - Bill O'Reilly - Townhall Conservative Columnists
 
MarineTpartier said:
I think he's eluding to the fact that most (not all) liberals are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage.
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that may be so. If it is, then Santorum is making the same mistake that so many self described conservatives do, placing all political beliefs on a one dimensional right to left continuum. Actually, there are at least two, probably three. The classic right to left continuum goes from the right, smaller government is better, to the left, big government is the answer. The abortion and gay marriage issues are on the Y axis, authoritarianism to libertarianism. The pro life and defense of marriage stances are on the authoritarian end of the spectrum and really have nothing to do with limited government ideals.
 
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