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Is Santa claus real?

Bodhisattva said:
How are they wrong?
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If they express ideas that are wrong, their beliefs are wrong. You can believe up is down all day long, you're still incorrect.
 
Cephus said:
If they express ideas that are wrong, their beliefs are wrong. You can believe up is down all day long, you're still incorrect.
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That is pretty obvious and doesn't answer my question... how are they wrong?
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is pretty obvious and doesn't answer my question... how are they wrong?
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If you don't understand that believing something that is false makes your belief false, I don't know what else you might mean. If people believe in Santa Claus and Santa Claus doesn't exist, they are wrong. Is there something else you want to know?
 
Bodhisattva said:
I think what he is describing is more than an idea... it is a creation. A movement. The "idea" of Santa has taken on a life of it's own and it is a living and breathing entity that nothing could tear asunder.
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Um... no. It's the living and breathing that does not happen. There is no actual person who does the things Santa does. He is a made up character. Just like Pikachu. Santa's a legend. I know this is just a "believing in something makes it real" argument. And that's not true. No presents magically appear under anyone's tree. Just like bunnies don't hide eggs anywhere and there aren't really any monsters hanging around on Halloween. By the context of "real" given in these last few pages, anything imagined by a person is real. That's a stupid definition, because it makes no distinction between the real and the imaginary. Santa is imaginary. Giving presents and being charitable are real.
 
Paschendale said:
Um... no. It's the living and breathing that does not happen. There is no actual person who does the things Santa does. He is a made up character. Just like Pikachu. Santa's a legend. I know this is just a "believing in something makes it real" argument. And that's not true. No presents magically appear under anyone's tree. Just like bunnies don't hide eggs anywhere and there aren't really any monsters hanging around on Halloween. By the context of "real" given in these last few pages, anything imagined by a person is real. That's a stupid definition, because it makes no distinction between the real and the imaginary. Santa is imaginary. Giving presents and being charitable are real.
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No it isn't a stupid definition. It is a definition which allows you to get a better grasp on the nature of thought, concepts and ideas and a more inclusive and comprehensive view of reality. We have other words to express what exists in the corporeal world, so no one is confused about that by this sort of discussion.
 
Cephus said:
If you don't understand that believing something that is false makes your belief false, I don't know what else you might mean. If people believe in Santa Claus and Santa Claus doesn't exist, they are wrong. Is there something else you want to know?
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All you are saying is that they are wrong... you are not explaining why. Are you able to do this or are we going to keep playing these games?
 
Paschendale said:
Um... no. It's the living and breathing that does not happen. There is no actual person who does the things Santa does. He is a made up character. Just like Pikachu. Santa's a legend. I know this is just a "believing in something makes it real" argument. And that's not true. No presents magically appear under anyone's tree. Just like bunnies don't hide eggs anywhere and there aren't really any monsters hanging around on Halloween. By the context of "real" given in these last few pages, anything imagined by a person is real. That's a stupid definition, because it makes no distinction between the real and the imaginary. Santa is imaginary. Giving presents and being charitable are real.
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Anything imagined being real is NOT the argument being presented in the last few pages...

"Is Santa real" is more than a black and white flesh and blood question. It is also something not as limited as something "imagined by a person therefore it is real".
 
Bodhisattva said:
Anything imagined being real is NOT the argument being presented in the last few pages...

"Is Santa real" is more than a black and white flesh and blood question. It is also something not as limited as something "imagined by a person therefore it is real".
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Leprechauns and Purple People Eaters are real. If you disagree then you are just being narrow minded because its not just a black and white flesh and blood question.:roll:
 
scourge99 said:
Leprechauns and Purple People Eaters are real. If you disagree then you are just being narrow minded because its not just a black and white flesh and blood question.:roll:
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If you ignore the sarcasm then this comment is completely true. Are these concepts nothing? Nothingness is pure negation, the opposite of everything that is or ever can be (indeed the term opposite is granting nothingness too much positive character), so they are certainly not nothing. If you use real in the most inclusive sense of not nothing, then they are real. Such a usage can be useful, philosophically speaking.
 
scourge99 said:
Leprechauns and Purple People Eaters are real. If you disagree then you are just being narrow minded because its not just a black and white flesh and blood question.:roll:
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Did you not just read what I said? :roll:

Just "imagining something" is not the same thing. This concept demands abstract thought. If you are not able to at least entertain this notion then why do you even bother? Well, perhaps you just don't get it...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Did you not just read what I said?
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I did. I was providing something to highlight the double standard you hold when it comes to "god talk", spirituality, and other biases.

Bodhisattva said:
Just "imagining something" is not the same thing.This concept demands abstract thought. If you are not able to at least entertain this notion then why do you even bother? Well, perhaps you just don't get it...
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How dare you say Purple People Eaters and Leprechauns are "just imaginary"! These concepts demand abstract thought. If you are not able to at least entertain these notions then why do you even bother? Well, perhaps you just don't get it...
 
scourge99 said:
I did. I was providing something to highlight the double standard you hold when it comes to "god talk", spirituality, and other biases.


How dare you say Purple People Eaters and Leprechauns are "just imaginary"! These concepts demand abstract thought. If you are not able to at least entertain these notions then why do you even bother? Well, perhaps you just don't get it...
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If there is a movement that thinks that Purple People Eaters are real then please share, otherwise you are just being silly for silly sake. That turn around was kinda weak. And there was no hypocrisy pointed out... just an illumination of understanding.
 
Bodhisattva said:
If there is a movement that thinks that Purple People Eaters are real then please share, otherwise you are just being silly for silly sake. That turn around was kinda weak. And there was no hypocrisy pointed out... just an illumination of understanding.
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These concepts demand abstract thought. If you are not able to at least entertain these notions then why do you even bother? Well, perhaps you just don't get it...
 
scourge99 said:
These concepts demand abstract thought. If you are not able to at least entertain these notions then why do you even bother? Well, perhaps you just don't get it...
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Yeah... well, it's been "nice" talking with you...
 
Bodhisattva said:
All you are saying is that they are wrong... you are not explaining why. Are you able to do this or are we going to keep playing these games?
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Are you trying to suggest that there actually exists a man that lives at the North Pole, who builds toys, who flies around in a sleigh drawn by flying reindeer, who delivers toys to good girls and boys worldwide by coming down the chimney? Because that's the typical modern-day Santa Claus belief. That belief is patently false. That individual does not exist. Anyone who believes that individual does exist is wrong.

What more has to be said?
 
Cephus said:
Are you trying to suggest that there actually exists a man that lives at the North Pole, who builds toys, who flies around in a sleigh drawn by flying reindeer, who delivers toys to good girls and boys worldwide by coming down the chimney? Because that's the typical modern-day Santa Claus belief. That belief is patently false. That individual does not exist. Anyone who believes that individual does exist is wrong.

What more has to be said?
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You have already been told that Santa Clause is more than the fat jolly guy leaving presents under the tree and all you are doing is re-hashing your original argument. You are just saying you are correct. That doesn't really mean much to most people. Anything else to add or is this over?
 
Cephus said:
And, no matter how strongly they believe it, they're factually wrong. Wishful thinking does not produce truth.
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Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.

- Mohandas K. Gandhi
 
Thunder said:
ah, so there is NO evidence that Santa exists?

that's what I thought.
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Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.

- Mohandas K. Gandhi
 
Bodhisattva said:
You have already been told that Santa Clause is more than the fat jolly guy leaving presents under the tree and all you are doing is re-hashing your original argument. You are just saying you are correct. That doesn't really mean much to most people. Anything else to add or is this over?
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Just to make it clear, we're talking about:
santa-claus.jpg

And not:
st-nicholas.jpg

The top one, other than the guy in the suit, does not exist.
 
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