Is Putin's carpet bombing of civilians going to work in Ukraine?

[independentusa]

The German's first carpet bombed civilians in London, then we carpet bombed German and Japan in WWII and it did not end the war. It took boots on the ground in Europe and the nuclear bombs in Japan to do the job. Now we have Putin doing the same thing in Ukraine and it again is not working. I wonder if this kind of tactic in war is to punish rather than to end the war. This seems especially true it Ukraine where the tactic is not new and the possible outcome unknown as it was in WWII, where it was thought a way to end the war more quickly and with less loss of American and its allies lives. Putin seems to thrive on this kind of tactic to punish those who do not give in to his demands.

 

[Loulit01]

Putin hasn't carpet bombed anyone. Wax hyperbolic much?

 

[Jkca1]

Putin hasn't carpet bombed anyone. Wax hyperbolic much?

You need to let the rest of the world know....they appear to differ with you;

"Putin carpet-bombs Kharkiv killing nine and injuring 37 as he sends 3-mile convoy towards Kyiv despite peace talks"​

"Putin Resorts to Carpet-Bombing Ukrainian Civilians"​

 

[bluesmoke]

Ukraine is well within reach of missile launch that can't be shot down like the much more expensive bombers. A destroyed missile site is much less expensive and can be replaced easily, incl elsewhere. Pilots are not so easily replaced as missile site commanders. The effectiveness of carpet/saturation bombing is questionable. It kills a lot of civilians but does not affect enough the military strength of the opponent. It's, maybe at best, psychological.

 

[ataraxia]

Putin hasn't carpet bombed anyone. Wax hyperbolic much?

He carpet bombed a lot of Syria.

Russia blasted at UN for ‘carpet bombing’ Syria

Russia and China face backlash after vetoing UN resolution calling for a ceasefire in Syria’s besieged Idlib province.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[jnug]

Define working.

If you mean break the Ukrainian people, it more depends on whether the west steps up and actually supplies them what they need. If the west does, Ukraine will not bow to Putin. They already know what it is like to live under the Russian boot.

So if that is what you mean by "working" it won't work if we do our part.

If you mean a continuation of the most corrupt country on earth, the country that exports more corruption and tyranny than any country on earth bar none and historically so, then Russia will continue to work the way Russia works. Its the way Russia has always functioned. Just as I have said that Capitalism is the ideology of the United States, not just an economic system here but a driving force, corruption and tyranny is the ideology of Russia, their driving force. Russia is the absolute center of the Sports doping universe just as an example and their take on sports and sports doping is just indicative of how endemic corruption and tyranny is in Russia.

How some Americans could have convinced themselves that Russia would come west or could be coaxed west from a history as deeply corrupt and tyrannical as their's from the Czars to today is beyond me. It is simply too much a part of Russian tradition. We have massive corruption here in the US. However Corruption is a line item on every Russian invoice and tyranny is an accepted way of life, so much so that it is easy for many rank and file Russian citizens to accept the bullshit that Putin spews daily.

We should never ever trust Russia to be anything other than what it is today and what it aways has been regardless of whatever half-assed form of governance they were practicing this week, last week or a thousand weeks ago. The other European country that will always bear watching and caution is Germany just not to the degree that we should consider Russia. Never think there is a single good or honest or incorrupt thing EVER coming out of Russia.

 

[independentusa]

Putin hasn't carpet bombed anyone. Wax hyperbolic much?

Pictures of Mariupol - Google Search

www.google.com

Have you seen pictures of the cities in Ukraine where they have bombed and shelled them to nothing? Look at pictures of Mariupol if you do not believe, or do you only believe what Putin tells you to.

 

[mrjurrs]

You need to let the rest of the world know....they appear to differ with you;

"Putin carpet-bombs Kharkiv killing nine and injuring 37 as he sends 3-mile convoy towards Kyiv despite peace talks"​

"Putin Resorts to Carpet-Bombing Ukrainian Civilians"​

You put it in large caps and bold with an expectation that we will believe you?

Carpet bombing...Carpet bombing, also known as saturation bombing, is a large area bombardment done in a progressive manner to inflict damage in every part of a selected area of land. The phrase evokes the image of explosions completely covering an area, in the same way that a carpet covers a floor.

 

[jnug]

You put it in large caps and bold with an expectation that we will believe you?

Carpet bombing...Carpet bombing, also known as saturation bombing, is a large area bombardment done in a progressive manner to inflict damage in every part of a selected area of land. The phrase evokes the image of explosions completely covering an area, in the same way that a carpet covers a floor.

I suspected the OP did not know the definition of the term "carpet bombing". But I suspect his point is still the same in its essence. Will Putin's widespread butchery of citizens by several means "work" might have been a more well tailored question.

 

[multivita-man]

Can it work? For a country the size of Ukraine, it requires an awful lot of damn brutality, but can carpet bombing and demolishing cities end up achieving military aims? Yes. They can. It's a question of how much economic and political pain Russia can tolerate, and I suppose it also depends on how much longer Western countries are willing to just sit by and let Ukraine get mauled.

 

[Questerr]

I suspected the OP did not know the definition of the term "carpet bombing". But I suspect his point is still the same in its essence. Will Putin's widespread butchery of citizens by several means "work" might have been a more well tailored question.

It’s similar to how the media sees any military vehicle with armor and/or tracks and calls it a “tank”.

All bombing with unguided bombs to the media is “carpet bombing”.

 

[mrjurrs]

I suspected the OP did not know the definition of the term "carpet bombing". But I suspect his point is still the same in its essence. Will Putin's widespread butchery of citizens by several means "work" might have been a more well tailored question.

It will work for putin, but not for Russia. He'll join stalin, hitler and pol pot as top level government killers.

 

[independentusa]

I suspected the OP did not know the definition of the term "carpet bombing". But I suspect his point is still the same in its essence. Will Putin's widespread butchery of citizens by several means "work" might have been a more well tailored question.

If Mariupol does not meet the definition, what does? there is essentially little left of the city. Google some pictures if you do not believe.

 

[jnug]

If Mariupol does not meet the definition, what does? there is essentially little left of the city. Google some pictures if you do not believe.

They bombed, missile struck and artillery salvoed the crap put of it for sure. The technique used simply does not meet the definition of carpet bombing......just doesn't.

Not even sure the Russians could carpet bomb in 2022 even if they wanted to do so.

 

[Questerr]

They bombed, missile struck and artillery salvoed the crap put of it for sure. The technique used simply does not meet the definition of carpet bombing......just doesn't.

Not even sure the Russians could carpet bomb in 2022 even if they wanted to do so.

They absolutely could. They have enough strategic bombers.

 

[Craig234]

I think you aren't looking at the effects enough. It's not a boolean 'is it working'. It's what the effects are from national morale, to diverting resources away from the war to helping the civilians, to reducing the civilian population able to support the war effort, and perhaps more.

I haven't seen expert analysis of how much benefit Russia is getting from it, but it's plausible it's quite a bit.

 

[Fletch]

Can it work? For a country the size of Ukraine, it requires an awful lot of damn brutality, but can carpet bombing and demolishing cities end up achieving military aims? Yes. They can. It's a question of how much economic and political pain Russia can tolerate, and I suppose it also depends on how much longer Western countries are willing to just sit by and let Ukraine get mauled.

I suspect Putin and Russia will tolerate an immense amount of economic pain to avoid the worse pain of losing a war to a weaker foe.

 

[Roadvirus]

Putin hasn't carpet bombed anyone. Wax hyperbolic much?

The dead Ukrainians say otherwise.

 

[Loulit01]

The dead Ukrainians say otherwise.

The dead Ukranians aren't saying anything because, sadly, they're dead. You need to look up the meaning of carpet bombing. Good examples are Dresden and Tokyo in WWII.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

The German's first carpet bombed civilians in London, then we carpet bombed German and Japan in WWII and it did not end the war. It took boots on the ground in Europe and the nuclear bombs in Japan to do the job. Now we have Putin doing the same thing in Ukraine and it again is not working. I wonder if this kind of tactic in war is to punish rather than to end the war. This seems especially true it Ukraine where the tactic is not new and the possible outcome unknown as it was in WWII, where it was thought a way to end the war more quickly and with less loss of American and its allies lives. Putin seems to thrive on this kind of tactic to punish those who do not give in to his demands.

It's a toss up. It worked for us in WWII, but not some much in Viet Nam.

 

[multivita-man]

I suspect Putin and Russia will tolerate an immense amount of economic pain to avoid the worse pain of losing a war to a weaker foe.

For Putin, the price of losing is the end of his regime, and his freedom, and maybe even his life. He's told Russians that this is about 'cleansing' Ukraine and defending the nation, so he can't be viewed as going back home defeated. The decline in Russia's standard of living is a sacrifice that can't be seen as being made in vain.

 

[multivita-man]

It's a toss up. It worked for us in WWII, but not some much in Viet Nam.

We were more committed to 'total war' in Germany, and the entire nation of Germany was an adversary, which was different in Vietnam.

From Russia's point of view, most of Ukraine is an adversary. They can claim that the Donbas is allied with Russia but I don't see Russia going out of their way to spare the Donbas regions from harm, and ethnic Russians are, like Russian soldiers, expendable and collateral damage. It is looking more and more like Russia's end game may be to completely annihilate Ukraine - or at least parts of it - and remake it in Russia's image. I could totally see mass deportations of Ukrainians to labor/death camps in Siberia, and in return, Russia rebuilds its economy by colonizing the parts of Ukraine under its control with the construction of settlements, similar to how the Israelis treat Palestine.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

We were more committed to 'total war' in Germany, and the entire nation of Germany was an adversary, which was different in Vietnam.

From Russia's point of view, most of Ukraine is an adversary. They can claim that the Donbas is allied with Russia but I don't see Russia going out of their way to spare the Donbas regions from harm, and ethnic Russians are, like Russian soldiers, expendable and collateral damage. It is looking more and more like Russia's end game may be to completely annihilate Ukraine - or at least parts of it - and remake it in Russia's image. I could totally see mass deportations of Ukrainians to labor/death camps in Siberia, and in return, Russia rebuilds its economy by colonizing the parts of Ukraine under its control with the construction of settlements, similar to how the Israelis treat Palestine.

They also have a ways to go before they reach anything resembling real carpet bombing. Go look at video of an Arclight strike.

 

[multivita-man]

They also have a ways to go before they reach anything resembling real carpet bombing. Go look at video of an Arclight strike.

Russia probably can't afford to carpet bomb, but they can make cities nearly uninhabitable.

 

[jnug]

They absolutely could. They have enough strategic bombers.

They would not have enough trying to perform carpet bombing missions. The "big bomber" is a very fragile, easy to hit and take out target these days. Even the US only uses its strategic bombers to fly conventional bomber missions in combat where they are assured that the enemy has no means at all to reach them. True carpet bombing would expose those bombers unnecessarily. Far better to stand off with them and have them launch missiles and the like.