Is Polish Fighter Donation Being Scuttled by Pentagon?

[maxparrish]

In what may be the Biden's Administrations first major screw up since the start of the war in the Ukraine, they have flip flopped in jelly kneed dread over the prospect of supplying aircraft to Ukraine. The on again, off again clown act is inexcusable, and demonstrates NATO and the EU's weakness and Achillies heel in its member states, especially the US.

While Blinken was working with Poland to get the jets back on track, on Sunday he announces its a GREEN LIGHT for Nato members to supply jets. Poland says, "Okay brave guys", and sends them to a NATO/US base as their donation. NOW a Pentagon spokesperson releases a statement saying: “It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it,” (John Kirby)

Pentagon says Polish proposal to transfer jets to US to give to Ukraine isn't 'tenable'

The Pentagon on Tuesday evening dismissed Poland's proposal floated hours earlier to transfer its MiG-29 fighter jets to the United States for delivery to Ukraine.

www.cnn.com

Kirby said the idea as laid out by Poland was too risky, as the US and NATO seek to avoid an outright conflict between the alliance and Russia. Multiple sources tell CNN that the Biden administration was completely caught off guard by the Polish offer to provide the US with the fleet of used MiG-29 fighter jets.

The Polish offer had not been discussed with the US before making it public and Polish officials did not bring it up with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken when he was recently in Poland, either.
US officials have privately weighed sending aircraft to Ukraine but have repeatedly noted the difficult logistical challenges that doing so would come with.

This is "official-splaining" why Washington doesn't have guts to do what is CLEARLY within the boundaries of aid, and IN FACT, empowering Putin on a basis of concern that he now knows is leverage. Why the hell has the administration been in Poland EXCEPT to facilitate such a transfer.

This is huge blunder, alerting Putin to NATO's trepidation over an issue that was not an issue. It was clear that NATO pilots operating out of western basis flying into Ukraine (e.g. a no fly zone) was likely too provocative. However, Putin said nothing about Ukrainian pilots ferrying in arms to the level of war. ARMS have been shipped to help Ukraine as a sovereign nation. Period. No NATO troops have the desire or will to enter combat. Supplying trucks, tanks, vehicles, artillery or airplanes to Ukrainians is an absolute right.

What the west has done is called "negotiating against oneself". Giving an enemy a reason to escalate demands because they NOW KNOW of our divisions and fear of providing real weapons to Ukraine.

If Biden and his staff were on top of this the Pentagon SHOULD NEVER be dictating to subvert the executive branch and state department. Whoever authorized that DOD statement should be sacked.

 

[Slavister]

I think US wants Poland to give jets to Ukraine, not itself directly give it to them. That might be considered a better move to avoid inevitable Russian propaganda pointing fingers at US (which they will anyway). Poland I am sure does not want to get blamed itself but US of course would assure it that being part of NATO means they are under US protection... unlike Ukraine.

 

[gbg3]

Very interesting topic, IMO, but it's already under discussion on this thread. This thread may take that discussion over and I'll join in if it does. But, for now, I don't want to just repeat my same very recent comments here.

Poland Agrees To Hand Over MiG-29 Fighter Jets To Aid Ukraine

F**kin' A!!! (y) I only wished that it were 200 of them. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/poland-agrees-to-hand-over-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-aid-ukraine/ar-AAUNopM?ocid=msedgntp Poland is ready to transfer dozens of Soviet-era fighter jets to the United States so they can be made...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Integrityrespec]

In what may be the Biden's Administrations first major screw up since the start of the war in the Ukraine, they have flip flopped in jelly kneed dread over the prospect of supplying aircraft to Ukraine. The on again, off again clown act is inexcusable, and demonstrates NATO and the EU's weakness and Achillies heel in its member states, especially the US.

While Blinken was working with Poland to get the jets back on track, on Sunday he announces its a GREEN LIGHT for Nato members to supply jets. Poland says, "Okay brave guys", and sends them to a NATO/US base as their donation. NOW a Pentagon spokesperson releases a statement saying: “It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it,” (John Kirby)

Pentagon says Polish proposal to transfer jets to US to give to Ukraine isn't 'tenable'

The Pentagon on Tuesday evening dismissed Poland's proposal floated hours earlier to transfer its MiG-29 fighter jets to the United States for delivery to Ukraine.

www.cnn.com

This is "official-splaining" why Washington doesn't have guts to do what is CLEARLY within the boundaries of aid, and IN FACT, empowering Putin on a basis of concern that he now knows is leverage. Why the hell has the administration been in Poland EXCEPT to facilitate such a transfer.

This is huge blunder, alerting Putin to NATO's trepidation over an issue that was not an issue. It was clear that NATO pilots operating out of western basis flying into Ukraine (e.g. a no fly zone) was likely too provocative. However, Putin said nothing about Ukrainian pilots ferrying in arms to the level of war. ARMS have been shipped to help Ukraine as a sovereign nation. Period. No NATO troops have the desire or will to enter combat. Supplying trucks, tanks, vehicles, artillery or airplanes to Ukrainians is an absolute right.

What the west has done is called "negotiating against oneself". Giving an enemy a reason to escalate demands because they NOW KNOW of our divisions and fear of providing real weapons to Ukraine.

If Biden and his staff were on top of this the Pentagon SHOULD NEVER be dictating to subvert the executive branch and state department. Whoever authorized that DOD statement should be sacked.

Hold on! Look at the past 6-7 months, Biden has been behind on everything, took no action as Putin built up his forces. Waited until public sentiment and the pressure from Ukraine and other European nations forced him to finally ban Russian oil in the US, he fought it hard. So it's entirely possible that in a few days or weeks if the public outcry is strong enough he may decide that he thought this up all by himself.

 

[maxparrish]

Hold on! Look at the past 6-7 months, Biden has been behind on everything, took no action as Putin built up his forces. Waited until public sentiment and the pressure from Ukraine and other European nations forced him to finally ban Russian oil in the US, he fought it hard. So it's entirely possible that in a few days or weeks if the public outcry is strong enough he may decide that he thought this up all by himself.

Well, I was focusing on screwups after the war began. And yes, he has been behind since a year ago, during the first practice buildup. Everyone was terrified of provoking Putin, failing to understand that as long as you stood in his way he was always going to be provoked.

You'll do okay with Putin, as long as you don't get between him and his food bowl.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Hold on! Look at the past 6-7 months, Biden has been behind on everything, took no action as Putin built up his forces. Waited until public sentiment and the pressure from Ukraine and other European nations forced him to finally ban Russian oil in the US, he fought it hard. So it's entirely possible that in a few days or weeks if the public outcry is strong enough he may decide that he thought this up all by himself.

Well, he's done more in a month than the last four presidents have. I'll give credit for that.
Clinton
Bush
Obama
Trump
Did very little when Putin reared his ugly head. At least Biden seems to care more about Ukraine than Russia.

 

[maxparrish]

Well, he's done more in a month than the last four presidents have. I'll give credit for that.
Clinton
Bush
Obama
Trump
Did very little when Putin reared his ugly head. At least Biden seems to care more about Ukraine than Russia.

Yes he has done more. However, as is my nature, I always end up fuming over the short-sightedness of every President and their military advisors. (When Bush Sr. called off the first Persan Gulf war because "100 hrs" sounded like a good stopping point I was highly disturbed and concerned ... and no sooner than it was over my concerns were confirmed, the Republican Guard had not been trapped and was alive and well destroying anyone who opposed Saddam.)

So yes Biden has done better. But this kind of administration timidity is going to doom Ukraine. It must stop or they will be finished.

 

[Felis Leo]

Hold on! Look at the past 6-7 months, Biden has been behind on everything, took no action as Putin built up his forces. Waited until public sentiment and the pressure from Ukraine and other European nations forced him to finally ban Russian oil in the US, he fought it hard. So it's entirely possible that in a few days or weeks if the public outcry is strong enough he may decide that he thought this up all by himself.

What was he supposed to do when Russia built up its forces? We had been sending weapons to the Ukraine. Our intelligence services warned Ukraine and Europe about the oncoming attacks even though we sounded like Chicken Little crying "The Sky is FALLING!" Let us remember that it was the sheer outrage caused by the unprovoked invasion against a European democracy which led to Western nations being willing to sacrifice in order to punish Russia and throw a spanner into the engine of their war machine. But what more could Biden and the US government have done before that point, integrityrespec?

 

[MaryP]

Yes he has done more. However, as is my nature, I always end up fuming over the short-sightedness of every President and their military advisors. (When Bush Sr. called off the first Persan Gulf war because "100 hrs" sounded like a good stopping point I was highly disturbed and concerned ... and no sooner than it was over my concerns were confirmed, the Republican Guard had not been trapped and was alive and well destroying anyone who opposed Saddam.

So yes Biden has done better. But this kind of administration timidity is going to doom Ukraine.

I fear the administration has always known Ukraine was doomed. Remember when the CIA predicted Kyiv would fall within four days? It's horribly cynical of me, but I'm afraid all this tremendous support, supplying weapons and aid is just taking the opportunity to wale on Russia without getting our hands dirty. Hope I'm totally wrong.

 

[maxparrish]

I fear the administration has always known Ukraine was doomed. Remember when the CIA predicted Kyiv would fall within four days? It's horribly cynical of me, but I'm afraid all this tremendous support, supplying weapons and aid is just taking the opportunity to wale on Russia without getting our hands dirty. Hope I'm totally wrong.

I think it's sincere, but it's a self-crippling characteristic of American foreign policy and ambivalence over the use of maximum force. Over and over, we get involved half-in and half-out. The result is a constant fear of doing too little and losing, doing too much and provoking our enemy. The end result has often been a stalemate or loss. Korea and Vietnam are examples.

Korea worked out because Stalin died, there was some talk of using US nuclear weapons against the enemy (who had none), and the Russians (not the Chinese or North Koreans) were so fixated on internal politics after Stalin's demise they forced a ceasefire on NK and China. Vietnam didn't work out because NV, USSR, and China would never give up and a resolution to the war would have required an invasion of NV...and more insurgent warfare...and perhaps war with China.

In this war, the roles are reversed. As long as Ukrainians are willing to fight, and we are willing to supply arms, Russia cannot win. I don't worry about offending Putin, I worry about us needlessly sacrificing Ukrainians to the punishment that awaits them should they surrender. If they are willing to fight for their freedom, we should be willing to provide them the means to do it.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Well, he's done more in a month than the last four presidents have. I'll give credit for that.
Clinton
Bush
Obama
Trump
Did very little when Putin reared his ugly head. At least Biden seems to care more about Ukraine than Russia.

Really? What exactly has he done? The guy didn't do anything until public opinions forced him into it. He's done as little as he possibly could. That's pretty much been his Presidency, unless it was a far left progressive social move early in his first year. Joe's not a imaginative person, he's a responder. He responds to the polls and the public opinions.