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Is philosophy crap?

noonereal

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On my science forum this question was asked and the responses were as I would expect.

I thought I'd ask the average Joe. What do you think?
Is philosophy crap?

Just farcical indulgences of the mind?
Or
Is it often of profound insights and of great value to our being?
Or something inbetween?
 

Elora

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Philosophy is man's struggle to understand life through his own limited knowledge...sometimes he gets it right, most times he gets it wrong...
 
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On my science forum this question was asked and the responses were as I would expect.

I thought I'd ask the average Joe. What do you think?
Is philosophy crap?

Just farcical indulgences of the mind?
Or
Is it often of profound insights and of great value to our being?
Or something inbetween?

for me, as a scientist, I think it is to some extend. i took some philosophy classes in college just to fill a requirement that was pretty easy A. i couldn't stand it "I think therefore I am". As a thought exercise, I guess it is fine, but without proving it, its just that, a htough excercise. If you were good at making arguments, you can easily get an A in Philosophy classes, which I ended up doing. But to me, it was just BSing

Scientific doctorates are called Doctor of Philosophy, so there is an element of thought process, but in science, you go out to prove it or find data. Without it, its just pointless/ some philosophy is just a thought exercise in arguing.
 

Nomad4Ever

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for me, as a scientist, I think it is to some extend. i took some philosophy classes in college just to fill a requirement that was pretty easy A. i couldn't stand it "I think therefore I am". As a thought exercise, I guess it is fine, but without proving it, its just that, a htough excercise. If you were good at making arguments, you can easily get an A in Philosophy classes, which I ended up doing. But to me, it was just BSing

Scientific doctorates are called Doctor of Philosophy, so there is an element of thought process, but in science, you go out to prove it or find data. Without it, its just pointless/ some philosophy is just a thought exercise in arguing.
I mean, science is pretty useless without a philosophical framework to interpret it with, no?

While intro your classes in philosophy might have been easy, saying philosophy in general is simple/easy is unfair.
 

AGENT J

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philosophy
in itself is AWESOME
very interesting and has driven the world in many directions some good some bad

with that said there are some pseudo-intellectuals that cant handle philosophy
they equate it to FACT when its simply not

a perfect example fo this would be those that study philosophy and then state that its a fact black people cant be racist
this is philosophy run amok
 

Antiwar

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Ethical considerations are much better.
 

NolanVoyd

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for me, as a scientist, I think it is to some extend. i took some philosophy classes in college just to fill a requirement that was pretty easy A. i couldn't stand it "I think therefore I am". As a thought exercise, I guess it is fine, but without proving it, its just that, a htough excercise. If you were good at making arguments, you can easily get an A in Philosophy classes, which I ended up doing. But to me, it was just BSing

Scientific doctorates are called Doctor of Philosophy, so there is an element of thought process, but in science, you go out to prove it or find data. Without it, its just pointless/ some philosophy is just a thought exercise in arguing.
Science and philosophy are complimentary.. Science deals with specifics, factual matters, DNA for example. Philosophy deals with more general questions about what do those discoveries mean for the Human race? Ethically. Religiously. Etc. What about genetic engineering? Etc.

Both are important.
 

tacomancer

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On my science forum this question was asked and the responses were as I would expect.

I thought I'd ask the average Joe. What do you think?
Is philosophy crap?

Just farcical indulgences of the mind?
Or
Is it often of profound insights and of great value to our being?
Or something inbetween?
For the most part, philosophy is just raw speculation with certain rules regarding the logical evaluation of that speculation. This is due to the idea that truth can be derived from factual statements, which is in itself quite silly, as any axiom, even if true, could still result into a silly conclusion, unknown to the philosopher due to things like ignoring information (not being aware of it), not investigating things in a sensible way (scoping issues), etc. This is because there is nothing to really compare the results of whatever algorithm the philosopher runs their axioms through, except a person's sensibilities or sense of normalcy. At that point, it can easily suffer from navel gazing or only be as good as the quality of the person evaluating and judging the result of that philosophical exercise.

Science coming out of philosophy was philosophy's best contribution society.
 
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Nomad4Ever

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American

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for me, as a scientist, I think it is to some extend. i took some philosophy classes in college just to fill a requirement that was pretty easy A. i couldn't stand it "I think therefore I am". As a thought exercise, I guess it is fine, but without proving it, its just that, a htough excercise. If you were good at making arguments, you can easily get an A in Philosophy classes, which I ended up doing. But to me, it was just BSing

Scientific doctorates are called Doctor of Philosophy, so there is an element of thought process, but in science, you go out to prove it or find data. Without it, its just pointless/ some philosophy is just a thought exercise in arguing.
Science originated from philosophy.
 

Antiwar

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Because ethics is literally philosophy lol.

Ethics is a subset of philosophy, but ethics existed way before philosophy did. Philosophy is not a prerequisite for ethical considerations.
 
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I mean, science is pretty useless without a philosophical framework to interpret it with, no?

While intro your classes in philosophy might have been easy, saying philosophy in general is simple/easy is unfair.

yes, as I mentioned in my post. but much of philosophy, I guess ancient philosophy, there is no science that follow so its just an exercise. It's like religion, arguing that something is true using circular logic without any means of proving it.

So in that extent, philosophy is just a mental exercise. I guess not useless, but really has no bearing on reality without being able to prove it. And it is easy, if you never have to prove what you are saying, you just have to be good at BSing. Lawyers probably love philosophy, they excel at making BS arguments at times for their clients

For the most part, philosophy is just raw speculation with certain rules regarding the logical evaluation of that speculation. This is due to the idea that truth can be derived from factual statements, which is in itself quite silly, as any axiom, even if true, could still result into a silly conclusion, unknown to the philosopher due to things like ignoring information (not being aware of it), not investigating things in a sensible way (scoping issues), etc. This is because there is nothing to really compare the results of whatever algorithm the philosopher runs their axioms through, except a person's sensibilities or sense of normalcy. At that point, it can easily suffer from navel gazing or only be as good as the quality of the person evaluating and judging the result of that philosophical exercise.

Science coming out of philosophy was philosophy's best contribution society.


Taco stated my view better than I did
 

Nomad4Ever

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Ethics is a subset of philosophy, but ethics existed way before philosophy did. Philosophy is not a prerequisite for ethical considerations.
What? That's like saying addition existed before math because we hadn't developed a formal field of mathematics back when people were counting berries.

It doesn't matter if the field of philosophy didn't exist as like, an organized an recognized discipline. Making any ethical statement = making a philosophical statement.

If some hunter gatherer thought that killing rabbits or some shit was unethical because they believed they embody the spirits of their ancestors or something, that ethical statement was derived from their philosophical religious views.

What do you believe would be an example of an ethical statement that doesn't rely on philosophy?
 

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"Is philosophy crap?"

Hmmm. Interesting question.

I Kant really say. :unsure:🧐

lolz.gif
 

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What? That's like saying addition existed before math because we hadn't developed a formal field of mathematics back when people were counting berries.

Yes, it is, because that's also true.

It doesn't matter if the field of philosophy didn't exist as like, an organized an recognized discipline. Making any ethical statement = making a philosophical statement.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. The inverse of your equation (philosophical statement = ethical statement decision) is not true. Therefore, ethical considerations are better than philosophy.
 

Nomad4Ever

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For the most part, philosophy is just raw speculation with certain rules regarding the logical evaluation of that speculation. This is due to the idea that truth can be derived from factual statements, which is in itself quite silly, as any axiom, even if true, could still result into a silly conclusion, unknown to the philosopher due to things like ignoring information
yes, as I mentioned in my post. but much of philosophy, I guess ancient philosophy, there is no science that follow so its just an exercise. It's like religion, arguing that something is true using circular logic without any means of proving it.
I feel like both of you are under the impression that philosophy is some narrow discipline that only deals with grand obscure questions about the nature of the self and the universe. That is simply not the case. Philosophy is such a broad discipline it practically encapsulates everything. For one, just all of ethics and morality and fundamentally philosophical questions, and those values in turn inform both laws and politics. So are areas such as logical reasoning, many concepts of which are important to the idea of mathematical proofs.
Since then, various areas of investigation that were traditionally part of philosophy have become separate academic disciplines, and namely the social sciences such as psychology, sociology, linguistics, and economics.
For example, Newton's 1687 Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy later became classified as a book of physics.
There are many different competing definitions of philosophy and what should count as philosophy. But even answering that question itself is a philosophical question. Answering or asking any question fundamentally requires some kind of philosophical framework.
 

ecofarm

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The same idiots who disrespect philosophy disrespect logic. They're idiots trying to make themselves feel better.

"I don't be needin' that thar smart people stuff! I'm da smartest!!"

Okay.
 

Nomad4Ever

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Therefore, ethical considerations are better than philosophy.
Ethical considerations ARE philosophy. They can't be better than it, they ARE IT. What do you consider to be an example of an ethical consideration that isn't a philosophical one?
 

ecofarm

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Pre-emptive philosophy: Just to be clear:

An ethical argument or debate or discussion is a choice among two or more good things. Ethics is a debate between goods. Ethics does not include an established bad. Only goods. Debate between them.

We got that?

Great. Now we know the difference between morals (drawing a line between good and evil) and ethics (choosing the greater of two or more goods).

So if we got the home-schooled trailer-parks on board, you know - the people disparaging philosophy, with the meaning of ethics then maybe we can move forward.
 

NolanVoyd

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Ethics is a subset of philosophy, but ethics existed way before philosophy did. Philosophy is not a prerequisite for ethical considerations.
No it didn't.

That is like saying beagles existed way before dogs did. (Hint: beagles are a type of dog and could not have existed before dogs. Ethical considerations are a type of philosophical consideration, i.e. a type of philosophy.)
 

craig

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Philosophy is theoretical science.
 

ecofarm

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Ethics is between established goods and one cannot have a good without philosophy. Philosophy defines good. Ethics debates between them.
 

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Ah so, use your Googler Grasshoppah.....

>>The main difference between ethics and philosophy is that ethics are moral guidelines while philosophy is the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, as an academic discipline.<<
 
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