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Is Pancho Villa OK?

What statues should stay up?

  • Remove Both. It is a symbol of murder

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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dirtpoorchris

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html

[FONT=&quot]A dozen residents gave statements in defense of the statute during the meeting, pointing to its aesthetic value and role in celebrating local Mexican-American culture.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"We don't want to forget that history, that history that is grounded in Mexican-ness," said Lydia Otero, a professor of Mexican-American studies at the University of Arizona.[/FONT]

I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?
 

Risky Thicket

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All I can say is that I know Emiliano Zapata’s grandson and he is a hell of a nice guy.
 

SDET

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I don't consider nationality concerning Pancho Villa. I put him in the same category as Jesse James, Billy The Kid, Butch Cassidy, etc. Historical displays of their fame (or infamy) are reasonable. Perhaps even actors could charge admission to recreate a scene with Pancho Villa.
 

americanwoman

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html



I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?

You are not going to win any argument with me that removing a statue will make anyone forget history.

If this is on public property, it's probably better suited to go to private property. Problem solved!

Only white people can be evil, really? But I bet you don't have an agenda. :lol:
 

Skeptic Bob

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Definitely an interesting comparison. I think whether or not there is hypocrisy going on depends on some various factors.

First, are any of the specific people in support of keeping Villa’s statue opposed to the Confederate statues remaining up? If not, then there is certainly no hypocrisy.

Second, if there are people in favor of Villa’s but opposed to the Confederates’, then whether or not it is hypocritical depends on WHY they oppose the Confederate statues. If they oppose the Confederates’ because the Confederates did “bad things” but give Villa a pass then that is likely hypocritical. But there are a good number of people who oppose the Confederate statues, not because of slavery, but because they were traitors to the United States. After all, plenty of people who oppose Confederate statues don’t have a problem with, say, statues of Washington, even though he had slaves. Sure, some oppose them all but they seem to be a minority.

So if they oppose Confederate statues because they were traitors to the US then they could support the Villa statue without being hypocritical.
 

Beaudreaux

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html



I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?

Pancho Villa is fine, and so are any other people that had a major and transformative impact on the particular area that their statue has been erected. The rest of the country doesn't have to agree for Pancho Villa's likeness to be held in historical perspective with a statue by those of Mexican decent, and the descendants of those that formed the society and culture in that part of our country.

Also, it looks like a bit of duplicitous hypocrisy by both sides to go around when it comes to statues, or plaques, or other symbols of our good, bad, or even ugly, historical past.
 
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Lutherf

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html



I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?

I can just see them trying to tear the Pancho Villa statue out of Veinte de Agosto park in Tucson. The locals would burn the city to the ground.
 

Beaudreaux

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All I can say is that I know Emiliano Zapata’s grandson and he is a hell of a nice guy.

Didn't he play a guitar? I thought his name was Frank? Oh, wait...

/friendly kidding

Genes can determine your health and a number of other things, but I don't think scientists have discovered that genes can determine your likely hood to lead a political revolution.

As a history buff, Zapata is one of my favorite characters from that era, and from Mexico as a whole.
 

dirtpoorchris

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We all know its cuz the extreme lefties are paranoid and assumed any town with a confederate statue in it was secretly confederate.
 

Rogue Valley

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Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.

Can you expand of the above? I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
 

Tanngrisnir

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html

I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?

You'll understand if no one actually believes you and takes you seriously.
 

Fledermaus

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html



I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?

Kin (RIP) on my wife's side escaped Pancho Villas "recruiting drives" by sneaking out of town at the border... They crossed the border to the US soon after....

For some reason it is OK in some eyes to lionize a murderous traitor if he is not southern white. For much of the time Villa was a Mexican version of Quantrill... And should be afforded all "honors" such a murderous turncoat deserves.
 

Risky Thicket

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Didn't he play a guitar? I thought his name was Frank? Oh, wait...

/friendly kidding

Genes can determine your health and a number of other things, but I don't think scientists have discovered that genes can determine your likely hood to lead a political revolution.

As a history buff, Zapata is one of my favorite characters from that era, and from Mexico as a whole.


That's him! Frank Zapata and His Revolutionary Disco Hits del Norte.

I don't think scientists have discovered that genes can determine your likely hood to lead a political revolution.

Exactly. I was just having a similar conversation with my wife. My great, great ...grandfather and uncles were volunteers in the 12th SC Infantry. They didn't own slaves. Hell, if they had had enough money to own slaves they would have been in the calvary at least. No matter, they fought for the CSA. Do I know their purpose and intent? No. We have letters and military records and 2 old newspaper articles and many stories and anecdotes. My grandmother died at 104 and was of very sound mind at 103. My father is approaching 100 and is a physical and mental anomaly. Point is, history is close in that regard. Family history isn't that far removed from the present.

I'm not a racist. I wasn't raised that way. My extended family aren't racist either. Yet, history records my family as volunteers in the CSA, and they did not own slaves. If a member of my family chooses to become a bigot or racist I know it would not be genetic and to my knowledge and experience it could not be attributed to family history.

Descendants of Villa and Zapata who claim to wish violence on anglos may well feel strongly about it, but they cannot attribute it to DNA. It just doesn't work that way.
 

Tigerace117

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Im all for allowing statues as a relic to history even if I dont agree with it.

Just kinda weird when leftists excuse a murderer just because he aligns with lefties but at the same time want confederate statues removed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucson-panel-rejects-request-remove-pancho-villa-statue-143305386.html



I thought Republicans were more of the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" type and not the lefties?

Did Pancho Villa commit treason against the United States?

Did he go to war over slavery?

No?

Then no, it’s not the same as the Confederate statues.
 

Tigerace117

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Kin (RIP) on my wife's side escaped Pancho Villas "recruiting drives" by sneaking out of town at the border... They crossed the border to the US soon after....

For some reason it is OK in some eyes to lionize a murderous traitor if he is not southern white. For much of the time Villa was a Mexican version of Quantrill... And should be afforded all "honors" such a murderous turncoat deserves.

So he should be celebrated and lionized like people like Jesse James and Quantrill were?
 

Mr Person

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Ive had a mexican gangster say to my face "I wish we can go back to the days of Poncho Villa so we can hang white people from telephone poles".

Are you entirely sure that this happened and it was a "gangster"? They tend to be the kind of people who wouldn't worry about whether it was lawful to hang someone from a telephone pole, though they'd probably save themselves the effort and do the deed with a gun instead.
 

Fledermaus

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So he should be celebrated and lionized like people like Jesse James and Quantrill were?

Quantrill was murderous scum.. Jesse James was a cohort of Quantrill and Anderson.

The problem is Jesse James has been romanticized in the last hundred years... All we need to move him from Confederate scum to really nice guy is a Disney version of Jesse.... Where Jesse James saves little ducklings crossing the road... Maybe saved a Disney princess in distress.
 

Fledermaus

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Did Pancho Villa commit treason against the United States?

Did he go to war over slavery?

No?

Then no, it’s not the same as the Confederate statues.

His troops invaded the United States. He attacked US towns and trains. His raids terrorized the border. He was a murderer and thief as were his men.
 

Tigerace117

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Quantrill was murderous scum.. Jesse James was a cohort of Quantrill and Anderson.

The problem is Jesse James has been romanticized in the last hundred years... All we need to move him from Confederate scum to really nice guy is a Disney version of Jesse.... Where Jesse James saves little ducklings crossing the road... Maybe saved a Disney princess in distress.

Yes, he was......but he was still considered a hero by southerners clinging to the “Lost Cause” since he fought for the Confederacy.

The people who try and shriek “double standards” over the statue of Pancho Villa seem to be conveniently forgetting that the Confederates they defend were every bit as bad—-and in many cases worse—-than he was.
 

Tigerace117

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His troops invaded the United States. He attacked US towns and trains. His raids terrorized the border. He was a murderer and thief as were his men.

Yes, he was a bandit masquerading as a military officer. His troops, unsurprisingly therefore, did bandit like things such as launching raids to loot and plunder. This was nothing new; American cattle rustlers has clashed with Mexican law enforcement repeatedly in the past, with the US government acting rather nonchalant about the murder of Mexican law enforcement at the hands of said rustlers.

The famous “Four Dead in Five Seconds” gunfight erupted as a result of American cattle rustlers murdering Mexican cowboys and then violently resisting when they realized they might be punished for it.

So calling Pancho Villa a murderer and their is very much true; however A) given the history of the Southwest, he was nothing new, just the latest in a long line of thugs, many of whom were from the good ole US of A; and B) nothing he did was any different than the actions of celebrated Confederates like Quantrill and James.
 

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I think that each city with these statues should hold a popular vote on whether they stay or go. That should settle the controversy.
 

Fledermaus

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Yes, he was......but he was still considered a hero by southerners clinging to the “Lost Cause” since he fought for the Confederacy.

The people who try and shriek “double standards” over the statue of Pancho Villa seem to be conveniently forgetting that the Confederates they defend were every bit as bad—-and in many cases worse—-than he was.

The rank and file of the Confederate Army nor many of the generals were nowhere near the evil of Quantrill, James or Villa....
 

Tigerace117

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The rank and file of the Confederate Army nor many of the generals were nowhere near the evil of Quantrill, James or Villa....

Fort Pillow says otherwise......as do their actions post war.
 
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