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Is Obama the worse President we had?

AGENT J

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Lots of people also thought the earth was flat or the sun revolved around us.

and? lol that doesnt change the fact that in that poll the clear majority think he is the best president of their life time.... when compared to others :shrug:
 

Howard the Duck

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Yeah they were definitely good times. We had a president who stood against those who seek to destroy us. Obama sympathized with them. As for the debt, Reagan did triple it but he only added 1.8 trillion during his 8 years. Obama added 8.6 trillion to the debt, much of that do to his Signature piece of legislation, The train wreck known as Obama care.

Millions of people who were uninsurable because of pre existing conditions are healthy tax payers today because of Obamacare. I am one of them.

As I remember it, the worst budget deficit Jimmy Carter ever ran was $64 billion. Reagan was appalled. He said that represented a stack of dollar bills that stretched from earth to the moon.

How far did $1.8 trillion of one dollar bills stretch? And of course you forget about inflation. $1.8 billion 1981 dollars is worth almost $6 billion today.

And Obama wasn't following a responsible president like Carter. He followed W and inherited an economy that was epicly contracting.
 
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calamity

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View attachment 67238361 Not the tired old card...:roll:

Disagreeing with everything Obama while totally agreeing with Trump certainly does indicate racism.


...especially is you're a white dude paid to work by the hour.

Rich billionaires are exempt. They are just playing on the white working class man's racism to ensure favorable policies which get them richer are put into affect.
 

late

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First of all when you see a thread on a forum that says Obama is the worst, it’s an opinion, nothing more.

A real historian would not even try to rank the current POTUS. He is not finished his 2nd year of his first term. Can we please wait until at least 2024, when he has finished his 2nd term, before we start ranking him. Lol

Real historians wait until HISTORY has been played out. Obama is history. We know what happened during his tenure. We can at least form an opinion of how he did. Some worship him as some kind of god, some think he was not fond of America and it’s constitution. Or anti-American.

Real historians have opinions. One Yale historian wrote a good article, while Cheney was president, about how Bush would be remembered as one of the worst.

Ever hear of Yale?

The Wiki list of presidential ranking polls has two entries about Trump. He comes in dead last in both.

Let me clear up the confusion. While it's a good idea to bring their expertise to bear on a controversy, you are correct in that the process of doing history properly takes time. Historians talk about letting the passions cool. I'll even give you an example, Truman was very unpopular after he died, and I suspect that was also the opinion of many historians (but I've never looked into it). Truman is now rated, by most historians, to be in the top ten.

That won't happen with Trump.
 

calamity

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Real historians have opinions. One Yale historian wrote a good article, while Cheney was president, about how Bush would be remembered as one of the worst.

Ever hear of Yale?

The Wiki list of presidential ranking polls has two entries about Trump. He comes in dead last in both.

Let me clear up the confusion. While it's a good idea to bring their expertise to bear on a controversy, you are correct in that the process of doing history properly takes time. Historians talk about letting the passions cool. I'll even give you an example, Truman was very unpopular after he died, and I suspect that was also the opinion of many historians (but I've never looked into it). Truman is now rated, by most historians, to be in the top ten.

That won't happen with Trump.
I believe you and I can agree on this.

Dk-tHMfXgAAtSjy.jpg
 

calamity

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To you, of course he is. You disagree with everything he stands for. But your side lost the election. Get over it.

I'll never accept a traitorous White Supremacist president.
 

BuzzwordBingo

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I'll never accept a traitorous White Supremacist president.

That’s cool, just continue your bitterness and hatred. I hope it makes you feel better. Race baiting is not a sport you know. Lol
 

calamity

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That’s cool, just continue your bitterness and hatred. I hope it makes you feel better. Race baiting is not a sport you know. Lol
Dog whistles are blowing in the wind
 

chuckiechan

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The largest deficits in history, the worst economic recovery, purging Gitmo. The list goes on

He allowed China a fait accompli to take ownership of the South China Sea. He didn’t GAF that China intends to ultimately turn the entire shipping lanes in to their personal toll booth by the use of compulsory Chinese transit insurance.

China is having a difficult time coming to terms with an American President with a backbone.
 

CriticalThought

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That’s cool, just continue your bitterness and hatred. I hope it makes you feel better. Race baiting is not a sport you know. Lol

You know, Trump will not be president forever. There has to be some inkling of fear of what that will mean in the future as hard as you and your ilk are sowing these seeds of anger. You may win some big battles over the next few years just to realize you spawned a monster in your backyard.
 

BuzzwordBingo

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You know, Trump will not be president forever. There has to be some inkling of fear of what that will mean in the future as hard as you and your ilk are sowing these seeds of anger. You may win some big battles over the next few years just to realize you spawned a monster in your backyard.

Sewing the seeds of anger? Nah. The liberal left are angry. They lost an election that even conservatives thought they would win. They have always been angry though. Even when they were in control of the White House. It’s a lifestyle for them. Here’s a good read I would recommend.

https://townhall.com/columnists/der...-reason-liberals-are-always-so-angry-n2491471
 

late

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China is having a difficult time coming to terms with an American President with a backbone.

That naivete is why I come here.

China's having a great time. They've extended their sphere of influence in the South China Sea, successfully wooed South Korea, are working on a rapprochement with Japan, the Phillipines has gone belly up. They have tentative agreements to extend the SRI into northern Europe, Putin has accepted terms that he prob hates, but needs the Chinese money and labor in Asiatic Russia.
 

CriticalThought

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Sewing the seeds of anger? Nah. The liberal left are angry. They lost an election that even conservatives thought they would win. They have always been angry though. Even when they were in control of the White House. It’s a lifestyle for them. Here’s a good read I would recommend.

https://townhall.com/columnists/der...-reason-liberals-are-always-so-angry-n2491471

That was a pretty crappy article. I stopped reading when it equated racism to KKK enrollment. I worked at a state prison here in Florida for a couple years. That was an education in institutional racism. Hell, the damn cops in some of our rural counties are still harrassing black folks and it is 2018! Nah, you could replace "liberal" with "conservative" with much of that article and it would apply. But it is good to see you buy into this kind of homogenizing crap. You don't understand liberals beyond what propaganda tells you what to believe.
 

RAMOSS

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The largest deficits in history, the worst economic recovery, purging Gitmo. The list goes on

Uh.. this current year is the highest deficit ever.
 

BuzzwordBingo

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That was a pretty crappy article. I stopped reading when it equated racism to KKK enrollment. I worked at a state prison here in Florida for a couple years. That was an education in institutional racism. Hell, the damn cops in some of our rural counties are still harrassing black folks and it is 2018! Nah, you could replace "liberal" with "conservative" with much of that article and it would apply. But it is good to see you buy into this kind of homogenizing crap. You don't understand liberals beyond what propaganda tells you what to believe.

I can bet you this, if KKK enrollment had gone in the other direction you would think it was relevant. Lol.

You are actually a pretty good example of his opinions.
 

ultmd

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Yeah they were definitely good times. We had a president who stood against those who seek to destroy us. Obama sympathized with them. As for the debt, Reagan did triple it but he only added 1.8 trillion during his 8 years. Obama added 8.6 trillion to the debt, much of that do to his Signature piece of legislation, The train wreck known as Obama care.

Nonsense. Just pure ignorance.

For starters...the FACT is that Obamacare did not add one penny to the debt. In FACT, it reduced the deficit (as predicted) every year that Obama was in office. In FACT, Obamacare reduced the deficit by a over $140 BILLION between 2010 and 2018. That is NOT arguable.

Next, Reagan's policies increased the debt by 186%, and he actually grew the SIZE of government more than any previous president since FDR, as well. W increased the debt by 101% and passed more unfunded liabilities than any president in history. Under Obama, the debt increased 74% due to policies that LITERALLY saved the US Auto industry and the US Banking industry......and which reformed the US Health Insurance Industry. Neither Reagan nor W inherited an economy that was even in Recession. Both of them plunged the economy into recession while working with compliant, republican congresses during most of their tenures. Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression, and LITERALLY saved the world's economy while creating the longest sustained economic expansion in the HISTORY of the world. And he accomplished it all in the face of a unified republican congress committed to an agenda of "total obstruction" for the last 6 years he was in office. To even pretend to argue or dispute the above, is to be either dishonest, or just plain ignorant.

Lastly, for any Trump acolyte to STILL be parroting the "Obama sympathized with our enemies" meme...in the face of the disgraceful behavior of Trump over the last 18 months....is just bizarre. Of course, no rational American ever believed that Obama sympathized with our enemies. But more importantly, ONLY delusional Trump acolytes would have the gall to say that in the face of Trump's EMBARRASSING obsequiousness toward Vladimir Putin.
 

BuzzwordBingo

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Nonsense. Just pure ignorance.

For starters...the FACT is that Obamacare did not add one penny to the debt. In FACT, it reduced the deficit (as predicted) every year that Obama was in office. In FACT, Obamacare reduced the deficit by a over $140 BILLION between 2010 and 2018. That is NOT arguable.

Next, Reagan's policies increased the debt by 186%, and he actually grew the SIZE of government more than any previous president since FDR, as well. W increased the debt by 101% and passed more unfunded liabilities than any president in history. Under Obama, the debt increased 74% due to policies that LITERALLY saved the US Auto industry and the US Banking industry......and which reformed the US Health Insurance Industry. Neither Reagan nor W inherited an economy that was even in Recession. Both of them plunged the economy into recession while working with compliant, republican congresses during most of their tenures. Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression, and LITERALLY saved the world's economy while creating the longest sustained economic expansion in the HISTORY of the world. And he accomplished it all in the face of a unified republican congress committed to an agenda of "total obstruction" for the last 6 years he was in office. To even pretend to argue or dispute the above, is to be either dishonest, or just plain ignorant.

Lastly, for any Trump acolyte to STILL be parroting the "Obama sympathized with our enemies" meme...in the face of the disgraceful behavior of Trump over the last 18 months....is just bizarre. Of course, no rational American ever believed that Obama sympathized with our enemies. But more importantly, ONLY delusional Trump acolytes would have the gall to say that in the face of Trump's EMBARRASSING obsequiousness toward Vladimir Putin.

In 2016, Obama’s last year the debt grew by $1.4 trillion. That is not debatable. There are many who disagree with you in that the ACA did in fact add to the debt by rising premiums for people that were either partially or fully subsidized by the government. You are also talking about two different things. Debt and deficit. Deficit is a measure of the budget, and debt is the gross national debt. So your claim that the deficit was reduced, is true, but it has nothing to do with the national debt. The bean counters in DC use all kinds of schemes to hide deficit, like borrowing from the SS fund, but they can’t hide the overall debt it is what it is.

Bottom line is this: I said that the the debt grew $8.6 trillion under Obama vs. $1.8 trillion under Reagan. That is not debatable. You can spin it however you want but it is what it is.

As for last piece of drivel there, liberals hate trump because he is not afraid to call them out. They want so bad for him to be guilty of something, but damn, there is just no there there. It’s funny to watch.
 

ultmd

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In 2016, Obama’s last year the debt grew by $1.4 trillion. That is not debatable.

That's also also TOTALLY irrelevant, and you know it. You said that Obamacare was responsible for much of the debt growth. Let me know when you can prove that, or (at least) just admit that you were making that up.

There are many who disagree with you in that the ACA did in fact add to the debt by rising premiums for people that were either partially or fully subsidized by the government.

No, there are not. You will have a very hard time finding ANY non-partisan analysis that credits the ACA for adding the debt at ANY point in it's existence (i.e. since 2010). From the CBO, to Kaiser (the gold standard for non-partisan health care economics), to various bipartisan economic analyses, there are almost no credible economists out there claiming the ACA increased deficits (and the debt). All agree that the ACA reduced the deficit, drastically reduced the number of uninsured Americans, and drastically reduced the number of people filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills.

But, more importantly, you argued that the ACA was responsible for debt increases under Obama; and there is simply ZERO objective evidence of that. Let's not start moving the goalposts, please.

You are also talking about two different things. Debt and deficit. Deficit is a measure of the budget, and debt is the gross national debt. So your claim that the deficit was reduced, is true, but it has nothing to do with the national debt.

Thank you, but I am very well aware of the difference between the deficit and the debt. That's not your argument. You are claiming that the ACA increased the debt. There is no evidence of that. In fact, we KNOW that the ACA was revenue positive (as almost all health care economist always predicted) between 2010 and 2018, and thus helped REDUCE deficits.

The bean counters in DC use all kinds of schemes to hide deficit, like borrowing from the SS fund, but they can’t hide the overall debt it is what it is.

There are no schemes involved here. Only conservative conspiracy theories. The ACA reduced deficits every year of its existence. That is not arguable.

Bottom line is this: I said that the the debt grew $8.6 trillion under Obama vs. $1.8 trillion under Reagan. That is not debatable. You can spin it however you want but it is what it is.

LOL, nice Strawman argument, there. You're deflecting. Look, you can't spin...and then accuse me of spinning. That's not going to work with me. No one is claiming the debt didn't grow under Obama. So why would you keep pushing that Strawman argument? The FACT here is that the US economy is much,much larger today than it was between 1981 and 1989, when Reagan was in office. Surely you understand that, don't you? If so, then you also understand why it's so foolish (if not disingenuous) to use raw debt numbers, rather than debt as a percentage of GDP when doing a "debt by president" comparison. So, the FACT is that Reagan increased the debt almost 2.5 times (debt to gdp) during his 8 years, than Obama did between 2009 and 2016. And Reagan did that while inheriting a growing economy from Jimmy Carter, while Obama was tasked with LITERALLY saving the entire economy from the Bush Recession.

As for last piece of drivel there, liberals hate trump because he is not afraid to call them out. They want so bad for him to be guilty of something, but damn, there is just no there there. It’s funny to watch.

LOL, liberals "hate" people and policies motivated by hatred, fear, ignorance and bigotry. That's really about it. Trump supporters are free to believe that opposing hate is equivalent to promoting hate. In fact, I expect nothing more from them, than just that. It's part of the mentality that allows people to accept Trump's alt-right/white nationalist message. But I don't think most people are very concerned with what amuses Trump's angry, brainwashed minions. A sizable majority of Americans see that he's a clown and a criminal....and, very possibly, beholden to a hostile foreign government, even if the 35% of you don't.
 
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Luckyone

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He allowed China a fait accompli to take ownership of the South China Sea. He didn’t GAF that China intends to ultimately turn the entire shipping lanes in to their personal toll booth by the use of compulsory Chinese transit insurance.

China is having a difficult time coming to terms with an American President with a backbone.

Yeah, well the backbone may end up with no meat on it.

The Trade War with China is a YUGE gamble for Trump and one he is likely to lose.

1) China wants to be the #1 nation in the world and is not likely to give in, especially considering that the U.S. leaving TTP has given China an open area of trade that is next to them. Also needs to be remembered that in China "saving face" is about the #1 thing. Chinese people are willing to give their lives to save "face". Not so Americans
2) China is likely to look to expand into other nations they were not big with, such as Russia. They may lose some business but money is not their prime objective.
3) Trump is incompetent and he surrounds himself with "yes" men that do not help. Wilbur Ross, the person who came up with and supports the Trade War, has "lost a step" by Trump's own words.

To begin with, a Trade War does not bring benefits, just damage that may be less for one side than the other. As such, the end result even if the Trade War is won by Trump will still not make our farmers much better and probably will cause many to lose before they seen any gain. Nonetheless, Trump is not about to back down because like with the Chinese, ego is Trump's Achilles heel and therefore he will push it to the max and probably end up with a worse outcome than the one we have now, as unfair as it is.
 

Luckyone

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In 2016,

As for last piece of drivel there, liberals hate trump because he is not afraid to call them out. They want so bad for him to be guilty of something, but damn, there is just no there there. It’s funny to watch.

"but damn, there is no there there".

Please explain what you mean by "there there"

The way I see it, Trump is guilty of"

1) having no morals
2) having no ethics
3) having no principles
4) having no humanity
5) being incompetent in running his companies (6 bankruptcies) and running the country. Chaos is rampant in his cabinet and in everything his administration is doing.
6) alienating friends and helping enemies
7) dividing the nation
8) racist comments and discrimination
9) sexist and an abuser
10) causing more pollution for our planet
11) destroying regulations that protected citizens against abuse
12) not offering health insurance that is better or at least on a par with what we had

So when you say there is no "there there", I need to know what you mean because these 12 items above are "there there" and he is guilty of them.
 

BuzzwordBingo

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"but damn, there is no there there".

Please explain what you mean by "there there"

The way I see it, Trump is guilty of"

1) having no morals
2) having no ethics
3) having no principles
4) having no humanity
5) being incompetent in running his companies (6 bankruptcies) and running the country. Chaos is rampant in his cabinet and in everything his administration is doing.
6) alienating friends and helping enemies
7) dividing the nation
8) racist comments and discrimination
9) sexist and an abuser
10) causing more pollution for our planet
11) destroying regulations that protected citizens against abuse
12) not offering health insurance that is better or at least on a par with what we had

So when you say there is no "there there", I need to know what you mean because these 12 items above are "there there" and he is guilty of them.

I think you know what I mean.
 

disneydude

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In many ways he was. If we literally had a rock sitting in the oval office, we would have had a better recovery. Literally, if we had done nothing instead of Obama's gimmick economic policies we would have saw more growth.

At least Bill Clinton understood the economy. Obama was clueless.

LOL.....Before Obama....we DID have a rock sitting in the oval office and he took this country to the brink of economic and moral bankruptcy. You conveniently seem to forget where the economy was headed when Obama took office and where it was when he left. Doh!
 

SonOfDaedalus

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In many ways he was. If we literally had a rock sitting in the oval office, we would have had a better recovery. Literally, if we had done nothing instead of Obama's gimmick economic policies we would have saw more growth.

At least Bill Clinton understood the economy. Obama was clueless.

Why don't you educate yourself on economic issues instead of making a fool of yourself?

Obama's stimulus saved the economy. Republicans were against it but economists now agree that it was the right choice.

The Stimulus Program Was a Smashing Success: It Erased Most Middle Class Income Losses in the Recession
 

late

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Obama's stimulus saved the economy. Republicans were against it but economists now agree that it was the right choice.

Republicans were for it when Bush was president.

The stimulus worked, but I think most economists had hoped for the failed financial institutions to be broken up. That failure has been a problem for a long time. The B of A gets into trouble routinely.
 
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