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Is Market Socialism a good option?

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Yes_Minister

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Is Market Socialism a good option?

Market socialism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"Market socialism is a type of economic system involving the public, cooperative, or social ownership of the means of production in the framework of a market economy, or one that contains a mix of worker-owned, nationalized, and privately owned enterprises.[1][2] The central idea is that, as in capitalism, businesses compete for profits, however they will be "owned, or at least governed," by those who work in them.[3] Market socialism differs from non-market socialism in that the market mechanism is utilized for the allocation of capital goods and the means of production."


So that would be an ecomony dominated by worker co-ops rather than corporations. Workers would control the means of production, but most of the economy would be in private organizations that are controlled by the workers, so there would be no state monopoly on the economy.
 
As a fan of Proudhon and other left-anarchist thinkers, I am all for the co-ops. A more democratic economy would solve a lot of economic problems.
 
I really don't understand this worker fetish you guys have. If you want to see the results of making life wonderful for the workers, just look at the US healthcare system.
 
My favorite combination has been Democratic socialism. It seems to give the best quality of life, and those with it are some of the happiest people in the world.
 
Absolutely. I am 100% for market socialism in the form of employee-owned businesses and various forms of co-ops.

aociswundumho said:
I really don't understand this worker fetish you guys have. If you want to see the results of making life wonderful for the workers, just look at the US healthcare system.
Click to expand...
The US healthcare system is a sick joke that puts profits over the quality of life and even access to treatment/medication. Workers are treated as slaves by hospitals. Nurses and even Drs leave because they are burned out by long hours, poor conditions, and pay.
 
Schism said:
Only in a race to the bottom.
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What's wrong with it?

aociswundumho said:
I really don't understand this worker fetish you guys have. If you want to see the results of making life wonderful for the workers, just look at the US healthcare system.
Click to expand...

Because they are the majority of people in the economy. Do you think tycoons have a right to cheap labor? Should workers be in a work place where they have more power or should they have their options limited to unemployment or working for some abusive tycoon that treats them like a robot?
 
Geoist said:
That's like saying being pro-democracy is a citizen fetish.
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Suppose I supported an economy of business cartels, so that capitalists wouldn't have to compete against each other. Sound like a good idea?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Because they are the majority of people in the economy.
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No, the largest majority are consumers. Everyone is a consumer, including children and the bedridden.

Yes_Minister said:
Do you think tycoons have a right to cheap labor? Should workers be in a work place where they have more power or should they have their options limited to starving or working for some abusive tycoon that treats them like a robot?
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I think workers should compete just like everyone else does in dozens of other contexts.
 
aociswundumho said:
Suppose I supported an economy of business cartels, so that capitalists wouldn't have to compete against each other. Sound like a good idea?
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Does the word monopoly mean anything to you?
 
aociswundumho said:
Suppose I supported an economy of business cartels, so that capitalists wouldn't have to compete against each other. Sound like a good idea?
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with Market Socialism?
 
aociswundumho said:
Suppose I supported an economy of business cartels, so that capitalists wouldn't have to compete against each other. Sound like a good idea?
Click to expand...

If you're not deflecting the conversation then get to the frikkin' point.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, the largest majority are consumers. Everyone is a consumer, including children and the bedridden.
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So what are everyone who works classified as?
aociswundumho said:
I think workers should compete just like everyone else does in dozens of other contexts.
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So should workers not be allowed to work in co-ops? Do you think workers cannot withdraw their labor from abusive tycoons like Jeff Bezos?

Big tycoons like Peter Tiel said competition is stupid and monopolies are great:

Peter Thiel: Monopoly’s fiercest advocate

Star investor and Republican donor Peter Thiel thinks that competition is for losers. His radical views have shaped Silicon Valley.
netzpolitik.org

Seems like tycoons like Tiel think there should be no competition, do you hold pro monopoly tycoons accountable or you agree with him that competition is for lovers?
 
Yes_Minister said:
So what are everyone who works classified as?
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Um, how about "workers".

Yes_Minister said:
So should workers not be allowed to work in co-ops?
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I have no problem with coops, unions, or any other system as long as all parties involved voluntarily agree to the arrangement.

 

Worker Cooperatives Are More Productive Than Normal Companies | Michelle Chen

When maximizing profits isnt the only goal, companies can actually work better.
www.filmsforaction.org


Leveling the Playing Field for Worker Cooperatives | Abby Scher

A quiet revolution is rumbling through New York's municipal offices as they retool to support the creation of worker cooperatives as a way to fight poverty. Spurred by the powerful example of...
www.filmsforaction.org


Union Co-Operatives: What They Are and Why We Need Them | Simon Taylor

Neoliberal policies contribute to alienation, disempowerment and non-unionised jobs, but a new model for unions could break the vicious circle, arguesSimon Taylor.
www.filmsforaction.org


How Worker Co-ops Are Moving Beyond Capitalism | David Morgan

The explosion of worker cooperatives in recent years has social justice organizers talking. Transitioning to a people-powered economy will require the work of many different social movements and...
www.filmsforaction.org
 
anti-growth. no private venture will put up risk capital .
Government cant do risk/reward -they are too concened with the socialist aspects "fairness"and such

China uses State Owned Enterprises. (SOE) Private capital-but the CCP designs laws that advantage themselves
So they steal intellectual property, use debt traps (One Belt One Road) to be the world's mercantilists
To compete with China you need capiatalism,and there needs to be tax advantages and trade agreements to advantage the USA
 

What percentage of each? What, exactly, does "worker owned" mean? If a group of people own a business, and are pursuing profits in a market economy, guess what that makes them? Capitalists.
 
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