• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

"blow into his nostrils the breath of life" is another way of saying the spirit of a person enters into the womb. The spirit of each of us is the literal offspring of God and existed prior to being born on the earth.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? -Hebrews 12:9
 
Last edited:
"blow into his nostrils the breath of life" is another way of saying the spirit of a person enters into the womb. The spirit of each of us is the literal offspring of God and existed prior to being born on the earth.

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

Adam was the first human being ever to exist. Eve had not yet been created. So since there was no womb in existence when Jehovah formed Adam from the dust at Genesis 2:7, what point are you attempting to make?



"blow into his nostrils the breath of life" s another way of saying the spirit of a person enters into the womb. The spirit of each of us is the literal offspring of God and existed prior to being born on the earth.

As soon as you quote scripture from the 66 books of the Judeo-Christian where it indicates "The spirit of each of us existed prior to being born on the earth," you will have proven that. Until you do so, I will continue to dismiss your above comment as nothing more than philosophy of men.


9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? -Hebrews 12:9

Why are you quoting Hebrews 12:9? It does not help your argument wherein you claim that people have a spirit that never dies. The expression "Father of spirits" is referring to people that are still alive and possess the "breath of life" or the "spirit of life." The Bible makes it abundantly clear that death is the opposite of life.

"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)


The verse at Romans 6:23 contrasts two exact opposites--death versus everlasting life. The opposite of life is non-existence.
 
Last edited:
Alter2Ego, you are free to follow your own religious philosophy. You have strong held views and I doubt anything I say will change your philosophy. I can quote Bible verses all day and you'll just interpret them differently than I will.
 
ALTER2EGO -to- LUDIN:

The context to Revelation 20:14 indicates the "Lake of Fire" is an example of symbolic/figurative speech. Figurative speech is never literal. But since you consider Revelation 20:14 to be literal, I suggest you quote the verse so that I can then direct your attention to the context. Context refers to surrounding words, verses, and chapters.

I suggest you go back and read my post agains because this has nothing to do with what i said.
 
The very idea that people of ANY faith believe a God capable of such brutality and destruction, yet still worship it.....in my opinion defines the worshippers as evil and masochistic.

It's all about fear, isn't it. To terrorise people into obedience and be too terrified to publicly do anything but what the Church dictates.

Lot of rubbish.
 
Hell is a completely fabricated concept. The most obvious evidence of this is that the old testament does not detail hell in any way shape or form. Hell is translated from the word "sheol" which in Hebrew has no negative connotations, but rather resembles Jewish purgatory.

The idea that an omnipotent creator will torture people with eternal hellfire because they didn't listen to "his" priests is ridiculous. I've never understood how christians can take so much comfort and joy in knowing that a large portion of their family and friends are screaming in agony this very moment, being tortured by the very man they worship.

"Infinite punishment is infinite cruelty, endless injustice, immortal meanness. To worship an eternal gaoler hardens, debases, and pollutes even the vilest soul. While there is one sad and breaking heart in the universe, no good being can be perfectly happy." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll

I have read through the entire Bible twice. The second time I read it I focused on references to hell, the devil and satan. It's very interesting but I think these Christian teachings about hell are derived from a different source other than the Bible. The Bible is a hard book to understand. I do consider the possibility that I missed it.

However I do have a secular understanding of the verse Matthew 5:22 which says, "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." I think that if you spend many years noticing how stupid, or how retarded, or how dumb, or how ignorant, or how foolish other people are then you will eventually suffer immensely. You will start viewing yourself in this way and you will start feeling that other people view you this way. It is a complete hell on earth experience. It's a horrific way to live.

I do believe anybody who calls someone a fool is in grave danger. The Bible says, "hell fire" but I know of no scripture to cross reference that term to describe exactly what hell fire is.

I think this hell tradition comes from Mormon doctrine (I've read the Book of Mormon too) or maybe it predates Mormonism. Maybe the Christian vision of hell derives from Greek or Roman mythology? I don't think there is enough Biblical evidence for Hell in the way that it is described in churches. This is one of those passed down traditions that nobody knows and very few people challenge.
 
I have read through the entire Bible twice. The second time I read it I focused on references to hell, the devil and satan. It's very interesting but I think these Christian teachings about hell are derived from a different source other than the Bible. The Bible is a hard book to understand. I do consider the possibility that I missed it.

However I do have a secular understanding of the verse Matthew 5:22 which says, "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." I think that if you spend many years noticing how stupid, or how retarded, or how dumb, or how ignorant, or how foolish other people are then you will eventually suffer immensely. You will start viewing yourself in this way and you will start feeling that other people view you this way. It is a complete hell on earth experience. It's a horrific way to live.

I do believe anybody who calls someone a fool is in grave danger. The Bible says, "hell fire" but I know of no scripture to cross reference that term to describe exactly what hell fire is.

I think this hell tradition comes from Mormon doctrine (I've read the Book of Mormon too) or maybe it predates Mormonism. Maybe the Christian vision of hell derives from Greek or Roman mythology? I don't think there is enough Biblical evidence for Hell in the way that it is described in churches. This is one of those passed down traditions that nobody knows and very few people challenge.


The greek word for hell is Hades--the equivilant Hebrew word is Sheol--both translate the grave. The lake of fire in revelation = eternal destruction. not eternal suffering. many references to a hell were symbolism.
 
"blow into his nostrils the breath of life" is another way of saying the spirit of a person enters into the womb. The spirit of each of us is the literal offspring of God and existed prior to being born on the earth.

...or...your parents procreate passing on preexisting gene pools... Why are people always imagining and needing a "spirit"? It's just your inherited genes...

What about animals? They enter a womb and are born with their own little personalities. Who blows up their nostrils?

"Nothing leaves this earth" used to be the case. Now some things do leave this earth. Where does that leave "the spirit"? Dotering about space, looking for some nostrils?

Organic matter just returns to dust. If you look at the ground in summer and see the bazillions of insect and plant life all living and dying and which just dry out and turn back into what looks like earth...we are the same.

Except we thwart the natural process by either incinerating the corpse or putting it in a lead lined coffin whereupon it can't reintegrate with natural earth.

Does that again mean your spirit is trapped, if your bits are in a lead coffin and can't reintegrate? It could be a more physical thing than just an airy fairy spirit, it could actually be attached to and part of all those little particles that used to be a living being and when you die and disintegrate, these particles are scattered and reform mixing with other scattered beings...so if you're in a big lead coffin you're not doing much regenerating, are you?

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? -Hebrews 12:9

The father of my flesh was taken somewhat too soon and as you will see, he didn't have enough time to correct me, although I certainly will forever give him reverence...
 
Last edited:
The greek word for hell is Hades--the equivilant Hebrew word is Sheol--both translate the grave. The lake of fire in revelation = eternal destruction. not eternal suffering. many references to a hell were symbolism.

Wasn't Hades a Greek God who oversees the land of the dead? Wasn't his job to keep dead people from sneaking back into the land of the living?

If so, it sounds like Hell is an idea borrowed from Greek Mythology. I thought that was a strong possibility. Do you know any similiarities or differences about the way Christians celebrate hell and the way the Ancient Greeks celebrated Hades?
 
All revelation ended in Jesus. There is no new revelation.

There's the two witnesses in Revelation who prophesy for something like 1,260 days. And that hasn't happened yet.

I think these two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah, neither one of whom is said to have died in the Old Testament. And according to Hebrews 9:27 everybody dies once (except for perhaps the Rapture).
 
Wasn't Hades a Greek God who oversees the land of the dead? Wasn't his job to keep dead people from sneaking back into the land of the living?

If so, it sounds like Hell is an idea borrowed from Greek Mythology. I thought that was a strong possibility. Do you know any similiarities or differences about the way Christians celebrate hell and the way the Ancient Greeks celebrated Hades?

I know a few similarities between religious charlatans. Get to the Oracle of the Dead and learn how ancient Greek religious people made a living, from drugging people into such a state where they were made easily certain they had been to the gates of hell.

Between the cavity in the double false walls around the Oracle building, you can even see the centuries old preserved paw prints of the giant dog the priests used to create the sound effects of the hounds of Hell.

Greek Hell being as fictional as any other version. ..
 
The father of my flesh was taken somewhat too soon and as you will see, he didn't have enough time to correct me, although I certainly will forever give him reverence...

That looks very deep. It almost looks like a vague threat or a cry for help. Should we be scared? Should we reach down and offer you a giant hug? It's a very unique description of your father.
 
Wasn't Hades a Greek God who oversees the land of the dead? Wasn't his job to keep dead people from sneaking back into the land of the living?

If so, it sounds like Hell is an idea borrowed from Greek Mythology. I thought that was a strong possibility. Do you know any similiarities or differences about the way Christians celebrate hell and the way the Ancient Greeks celebrated Hades?




Yes Hades was a greek false god( satan posing as every false god ) The greeks knew nothing of truth, they were confused( mislead).
I don't know the answer to your 2nd question. But many pagan( table of demons) things entered through the great apostasy. So what the world may think is Christianity is an illusion.
 
The greeks knew nothing of truth, they were confused( mislead).

It is good to live in a time and a place where we know the whole truth. We are never confused and never mislead. lol

Isn't being confused, mislead and unknowing of the truth part of the human experience?
 
That looks very deep. It almost looks like a vague threat or a cry for help. Should we be scared? Should we reach down and offer you a giant hug? It's a very unique description of your father.

It's a nearly direct quote strangely. ..from the post I quoted, so you do whatever you want.
 
It is good to live in a time and a place where we know the whole truth. We are never confused and never mislead. lol

Isn't being confused, mislead and unknowing of the truth part of the human experience?

... if you're a believer...
 
Alter2Ego, you are free to follow your own religious philosophy. You have strong held views and I doubt anything I say will change your philosophy. I can quote Bible verses all day and you'll just interpret them differently than I will.

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

Now you are attempting to transfer your behavior to me. Considering you have not been able to produce one single verse of scripture from the Judeo-Christian Bible to support your claims, I cannot imagine how you could be accusing me of relying on a personal philosophy. You were the one who showed up with the fallacious claims, listed below:



1. Humans have a spirit that never dies.

Hi,

Mortal death is just the separation of the spirit from the physical body. The spirit is the living part of us so we don't really die.
POST 27
WEBLINK:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...-torment-bible-teaching-3.html#post1063111603



2. Adam and Eve are considered "very righteous" and were rewarded with eternal life in paradise--get this--after they rebelled against Jehovah. Never mind that Jehovah told Adam at Genesis 3:19 that he would return to what he started off as: dust.
The LDS do not believe Adam and Eve were punished to hell. On the contrary, from our perspective the Fall was suppose to happen and Adam and Eve are very righteous, their spirits went to Paradise after their mortal deaths, and they will be resurrected with Christ and inherit all of Heavenly Father's blessings.
POST 43, PARAGRAPH 2.
WEBLINK:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...-torment-bible-teaching-5.html#post1063121897




3. Humans existed as spirit beings before they were born on earth.
"blow into his nostrils the breath of life" is another way of saying the spirit of a person enters into the womb. The spirit of each of us is the literal offspring of God and existed prior to being born on the earth.
POST 51.
WEBLINK:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...-torment-bible-teaching-6.html#post1063122227



When I asked you to produce proof from the scriptures to support your above claims, you turned around and quoted verses that said nothing of the kind.
 
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoing committed during the relatively brief human lifespan. The hellfire dogma was brought into Christianity by the Roman Catholics who copied it from pagan religions. (Pagans are those who do not worship the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible.)



Do you have a source for that last statement made about the RCC?
 
I have read through the entire Bible twice. The second time I read it I focused on references to hell, the devil and satan. It's very interesting but I think these Christian teachings about hell are derived from a different source other than the Bible. The Bible is a hard book to understand. I do consider the possibility that I missed it.

However I do have a secular understanding of the verse Matthew 5:22 which says, "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." I think that if you spend many years noticing how stupid, or how retarded, or how dumb, or how ignorant, or how foolish other people are then you will eventually suffer immensely. You will start viewing yourself in this way and you will start feeling that other people view you this way. It is a complete hell on earth experience. It's a horrific way to live.

I do believe anybody who calls someone a fool is in grave danger. The Bible says, "hell fire" but I know of no scripture to cross reference that term to describe exactly what hell fire is.

I think this hell tradition comes from Mormon doctrine (I've read the Book of Mormon too) or maybe it predates Mormonism. Maybe the Christian vision of hell derives from Greek or Roman mythology? I don't think there is enough Biblical evidence for Hell in the way that it is described in churches. This is one of those passed down traditions that nobody knows and very few people challenge.

Well, in ancient cultures, the concept of hell, or the underworld, is almost always underground in some way. It also parallels the fact that we get buried in the ground, and the Hebrew world sheol roughly means:

She'ol (/ˈʃiːoʊl/ shee-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ shee-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל Šʾôl), translated as "grave", "pit", or "abode of the dead", is the underworld of the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. It is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from God.[1]

The idea is near identical across many cultures. Bad people go down into a special terrible place. It's human nature to want this, but it doesn 't give it any credence.

When you compare the two possibilities: Either god is an unforgiving, sadistic sociopath who will be spending most of eternity torturing us in hell, or someone in the church made it up to dramatically increase their power. The answer seems pretty obvious. Think about it, without hell, what would they have to threaten us with?

As long as the concept of hell is still taught and used to threaten people, I will never participate in a religious activity again.
 
Last edited:
It is good to live in a time and a place where we know the whole truth. We are never confused and never mislead. lol

Isn't being confused, mislead and unknowing of the truth part of the human experience?


Some know lots of real truth( 1%)--- but there is also a hundred x more error being taught as truth.
 
Some know lots of real truth( 1%)--- but there is also a hundred x more error being taught as truth.

Do you know who these people are that know the truth? Do the people that known the truth, know that what they know is true?
 
Do you know who these people are that know the truth? Do the people that known the truth, know that what they know is true?

Yes--The ones who listened to this------ This is my son the beloved whom I have approved, LISTEN TO HIM. One carefully studies Gods word and learns Jesus' truths and applys them. Its much clearer to see the entrance to the narrow gate to go through the door(Jesus) to get to the Father(YHWH(Jehovah)-- only then one can worship the Father in spirit and truth.
 
Yes--The ones who listened to this------ This is my son the beloved whom I have approved, LISTEN TO HIM. One carefully studies Gods word and learns Jesus' truths and applys them. Its much clearer to see the entrance to the narrow gate to go through the door(Jesus) to get to the Father(YHWH(Jehovah)-- only then one can worship the Father in spirit and truth.

So. Me?? I just listened to it.
 
Back
Top Bottom