Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

[phattonez]

No rev is not about the end of this world. Its about the end of this system of things( satan influenced)--Gods kingdom taking 100% control of all creation--The only ruling authority forever.

Read the thread. Please refute the arguments I presented.

 

[laska]

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

Are you telling this forum that the dead are conscious? Otherwise, how do you expect the dead that are in hell to be aware of "misery of soul, regret, fear, anguish, darkness"?


I will watch for your scriptures that you think indicate the dead are literally conscious and aware. Please do not quote more than four (4) verses at a time.

Hi,

Mortal death is just the separation of the spirit from the physical body. The spirit is the living part of us so we don't really die.

https://www.lds.org/topics/death-physical?lang=eng

 

[kjw47]

Read the thread. Please refute the arguments I presented.

I don't have time to read whole threads--- my summary above is what Rev teaches.

 

[rhinefire]

The concept of eternal hell is as hideous as the tormented, bloodied dead figure nailed to a cross. Christianity is based on shaming it's followers.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Hi,

Mortal death is just the separation of the spirit from the physical body. The spirit is the living part of us so we don't really die.

https://www.lds.org/topics/death-physical?lang=eng

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

I asked you for scriptures to prove your claims, and instead, you tell your personal philosophy that "The spirit is the living part of us so we don't really die." When do you intend to quote scripture indicating such?


Another thing: Spare me the weblinks as I never click them unless the source is partially quoted. If you want to use arguments from the website that you are attempting to link me to, go ahead and do that. But you must present scriptures to prove any claims you present (no more than four verses at a time).

 

[Sababa]

I choose to follow the guidelines set forth in the Bible because, not only do they seem to be the rational and moral way to lead ones life, I don't want to live with the fear of death.

Yet your signature is a lie and that is clearly a violation of the Bible.

 

[laska]

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

I asked you for scriptures to prove your claims, and instead, you tell your personal philosophy that "The spirit is the living part of us so we don't really die." When do you intend to quote scripture indicating such?


Another thing: Spare me the weblinks as I never click them unless the source is partially quoted. If you want to use arguments from the website that you are attempting to link me to, go ahead and do that. But you must present scriptures to prove any claims you present (no more than four verses at a time).

It isn't my personal philosophy, it is very basic doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The following is what is in the link I provided from the official website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:

Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the mortal body. The Fall of Adam brought physical death into the world (see Moses 6:48). Because of the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all mankind will be resurrected and redeemed from physical death.

Additional Information
Death is an essential part of Heavenly Father's plan of salvation (see 2 Nephi 9:6). In order to become like our Eternal Father, we must experience death and later receive perfect, resurrected bodies.

When the physical body dies, the spirit continues to live. In the spirit world, the spirits of the righteous “are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow” (Alma 40:12). A place called spirit prison is reserved for “those who [have] died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets” (D&C 138:32). The spirits in prison are “taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and all other principles of the gospel that [are] necessary for them to know” (D&C 138:33-34). If they accept the principles of the gospel, repent of their sins, and accept ordinances performed in their behalf in temples, they will be welcomed into paradise.

Because of the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, physical death is only temporary: “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22). Everyone will be resurrected, meaning that every person's spirit will be reunited with his or her body—“restored to their proper and perfect frame” and no longer subject to death (Alma 40:23; see also Alma 11:44-45).

 

[laska]

11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.

12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection. Alma 40:11-14

 

[laska]

28 And I wondered at the words of Peter—wherein he said that the Son of God preached unto the spirits in prison, who sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah—and how it was possible for him to preach to those spirits and perform the necessary labor among them in so short a time.

29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them;

30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands-D&C 138:28-33

 

[WCH]

Yet your signature is a lie and that is clearly a violation of the Bible.

You don't get to make that judgement.

 

[Sababa]

You don't get to make that judgement.

Actually I can make any judgement I want....

 

[WCH]

Actually I can make any judgement I want....

Actually only God will.

 

[Sababa]

Actually only God will.

What ever you say, but I am fully capable of making judgements and I judge you a hypocrite.

 

[WCH]

What ever you say, but I am fully capable of making judgements and I judge you a hypocrite.

Maybe you are not really a modern Lib?

 

[ludin]

Revelation 20:14 pretty much sums up that there is a physical and spiritual death.

There is the lake of fire which is meant for satan and his angels and prophets. hell is the the complete separation from God's presense. what i think is worse is that
they will still be able to see into heaven and that is what is going to make it all the worse.

 

[Alter2Ego]

It isn't my personal philosophy, it is very basic doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The following is what is in the link I provided from the official website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

I am sorry, but I am not interested in the religious philosophy of the Church of Latter Day Saints. I asked for scriptures from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, as proof that a person has a spirit that lives on after the person is supposed to be dead.

Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the mortal body. The Fall of Adam brought physical death into the world (see Moses 6:48). Because of the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all mankind will be resurrected and redeemed from physical death.

The book of Genesis confirms that the first man Adam, rebelled against God and was punished with the death sentence--not everlasting life in literal hellfire. Adam simply passed on Adamic death to all of humanity.

Because of the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, physical death is only temporary: “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22). Everyone will be resurrected, meaning that every person's spirit will be reunited with his or her body—“restored to their proper and perfect frame” and no longer subject to death (Alma 40:23; see also Alma 11:44-45).

The verse at 1 Corinthians 15:22 does not say anything about the spirit staying alive so that it can be reunited with the body. You are telling me your personal philosophy again.


BTW: There are no books inspired of God that are named the book of Moses, the book of Alma, the book of Nephi, the book of D&C, etc. I will only accept quotations from the 66 books found in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Revelation 20:14 pretty much sums up that there is a physical and spiritual death.

There is the lake of fire which is meant for satan and his angels and prophets. hell is the the complete separation from God's presense. what i think is worse is that
they will still be able to see into heaven and that is what is going to make it all the worse.

ALTER2EGO -to- LUDIN:

The context to Revelation 20:14 indicates the "Lake of Fire" is an example of symbolic/figurative speech. Figurative speech is never literal. But since you consider Revelation 20:14 to be literal, I suggest you quote the verse so that I can then direct your attention to the context. Context refers to surrounding words, verses, and chapters.

 

[laska]

I am sorry, but I am not interested in the religious philosophy of the Church of Latter Day Saints. I asked for scriptures from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, as proof that a person has a spirit that lives on after the person is supposed to be dead.

I will watch for your scriptures that you think indicate the dead are literally conscious and aware.

I misinterpreted this to mean you wanted to hear my views based on either the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and other LDS scriptures. All of these I accept as scriptures.

The book of Genesis confirms that the first man Adam, rebelled against God and was punished with the death sentence--not everlasting life in literal hellfire. Adam simply passed on Adamic death to all of humanity.

The LDS do not believe Adam and Eve were punished to hell. On the contrary, from our perspective the Fall was suppose to happen and Adam and Eve are very righteous, their spirits went to Paradise after their mortal deaths, and they will be resurrected with Christ and inherit all of Heavenly Father's blessings.

The verse at 1 Corinthians 15:22 does not say anything about the spirit staying alive so that it can be reunited with the body. You are telling me your personal philosophy again.

Correct it speaks about how we all will die and that we all will have a Resurrection. Your personal religious philosophy of death or the LDS view is not mentioned in that verse.

BTW: There are no books inspired of God that are named the book of Moses, the book of Alma, the book of Nephi, the book of D&C, etc. I will only accept quotations from the 66 books found in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

That is your personal religious philosophy as is your interpretations of the Bible. The LDS believe God speaks today just as He did in Biblical times:

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

 

[laska]

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.-Ecclesiastes 12:7

 

[Alter2Ego]

I am sorry, but I am not interested in the religious philosophy of the Church of Latter Day Saints. I asked for scriptures from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, as proof that a person has a spirit that lives on after the person is supposed to be dead.

I misinterpreted this to mean you wanted to hear my views based on either the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and other LDS scriptures. All of these I accept as scriptures.

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

I quoted four verses in my OP, and all four verses were taken from Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. That should have been the clue that those responding to this thread should only quote from the Judeo-Christian Bible.

My authority is the 66 books of the Judeo-Christian Bible. Unless you can support your claims about "the spirit that never dies" from those specific 66 books, I will continue to consider your responses as nothing more than traditions of men.


FYI: I consider traditions of men irrelevant where Bible teachings are concerned.

 

[laska]

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

I quoted four verses in my OP, and all four verses were taken from Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. That should have been the clue that those responding to this thread should only quote from the Judeo-Christian Bible.

My authority is the 66 books of the Judeo-Christian Bible. Unless you can support your claims about "the spirit that never dies" from those specific 66 books, I will continue to consider your responses as nothing more than traditions of men.


FYI: I consider traditions of men irrelevant where Bible teachings are concerned.

Why are you ignoring this then:

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.-Ecclesiastes 12:7

 

[Alter2Ego]

BTW: There are no books inspired of God that are named the book of Moses, the book of Alma, the book of Nephi, the book of D&C, etc. I will only accept quotations from the 66 books found in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

That is your personal religious philosophy as is your interpretations of the Bible. The LDS believe God speaks today just as He did in Biblical times:

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

That is what you would like to reduce it to--my personal philosophy. But in reality, there is ample evidence--from secular sources--that the Judeo-Christian Bible is the inspired word of Almighty God. Obviously, my "personal religious philosophy" has no bearing on the evidence presented by independent, secular sources.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

You are free to believe whatever you want to. The Muslims believe their Islamic Quran is inspired of God, but like the LDS, they have no evidence to prove it. The atheists believe our fine-tuned universe created itself and that humans evolved from apes, but they have no evidence to prove any of it. Meanwhile, there is ample evidence that the Judeo-Christian Bible is the inspired word of God.

 

[laska]

Here is another verse for you:

46 ¶And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. -1 Corinthians 15:22

 

[laska]

That is what you would like to reduce it to--my personal philosophy. But in reality, there is ample evidence--from secular sources--that the Judeo-Christian Bible is the inspired word of Almighty God. Obviously, my "personal religious philosophy" has no bearing on the evidence presented by independent, secular sources.

You do know there are millions of people with there own personal religious philosophies who think their interpretation of the Bible is the truth.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Why are you ignoring this then:

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.-Ecclesiastes 12:7

ALTER2EGO -to- LASKA:

The spirit, according to the context of that verse, is the breath of life from God. It is not an invisible part of the person that never dies, it is God's own breath of life that returns to God after anyone dies. At Genesis 2:7, the Bible says Jehovah breathed into Adam the breath of life.

"And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)


The man did not come to life until the breath of life (or spirit from God) was breathed into him, as you can see from the quotation above. So when Adam died, the reverse happened: he returned to dust, as stated at Ecclesiastes 2:7. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:" So of course the spirit aka the breath of life returned to God who originally gave it.