Is Johnny Manziel toast?

[The Man]

Haha! Like the majority of big time college football players care about their full rides. They go to college programs because that's the only real pathway to actually getting compensated for what they do...and the NCAA milks them for all their worth before before they are allowed to leave and get paid paid fair market value. Let me guess...you consider yourself a free market guy..well collegiate sports and the NFL are not the free market they are monopolies and act like it.

I consider myself a guy who thinks athletics have no place in schools, outside of intramural sports. Who said anything at all about free market, or any other market, besides you?

It's not my concern why big time college athletes go to college. They know the deal before they enroll, and if they don't like it they can opt not to go.

So you think the NCAA should just be another professional league?

 

[iliveonramen]

I consider myself a guy who thinks athletics have no place in schools, outside of intramural sports.

It's not my concern why big time college athletes go to college. They know the deal before they enroll, and if they don't like it they can opt not to go.

So you think the NCAA should just be another professional league?

So you think it's fine that the NCAA makes billions off these kids and gives them nothing?

Yes...I think the NCAA makes so much money off these guys they are obligated to pay them. If this is some Division II A school where you break even that's not a concern. If you're making money hand over fist with lucrative national contracts, paying coaches and Athletic Directors millions yeah...it's already a business for everyone concerned except the kids that are putting their bodies on the line.

How many atheletes have dropped in the draft due to injuries? That's their market value dropping due to the nearly free labor they provided to their collegiate teams.

Big time athletes do know the deal...they know that they have to give years of their life to an institution before they can ever start making money off it. A 3 or 4 year internship well below their value. Some of these kids are pulled out of the poorest areas in America to make people millions of dollars.

 

[OscarB63]

That'a a pretty blatant violation and leaves me wondering how anyone could allow that to happen in a position of authority

I blame his parents. He has been busted numerous times for underage drinking as well and they either condone it or do nothing to curtail it. He strikes me as one of those guys who thinks his athletic talent should prevent the rules from applying to him.

 

[The Man]

So you think it's fine that the NCAA makes billions off these kids and gives them nothing?

Again, the NCAA isn't giving them 'nothing'. Big time college football players are very well compensated. And if they're unhappy with that compensation, they're free to decline and take their talents elsewhere.

 

[iliveonramen]

Again, the NCAA isn't giving them 'nothing'. Big time college football players are very well compensated.

Are they? So you think they would be fools to get paid their fair market values and pay for everything they are "well compensated" for?

 

[iliveonramen]

I blame his parents. He has been busted numerous times for underage drinking as well and they either condone it or do nothing to curtail it. He strikes me as one of those guys who thinks his athletic talent should prevent the rules from applying to him.

Yeah that's my view of him as well.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So you think it's fine that the NCAA makes billions off these kids and gives them nothing?

Yes...I think the NCAA makes so much money off these guys they are obligated to pay them. If this is some Division II A school where you break even that's not a concern. If you're making money hand over fist with lucrative national contracts, paying coaches and Athletic Directors millions yeah...it's already a business for everyone concerned except the kids that are putting their bodies on the line.

How many atheletes have dropped in the draft due to injuries? That's their market value dropping due to the nearly free labor they provided to their collegiate teams.

Big time athletes do know the deal...they know that they have to give years of their life to an institution before they can ever start making money off it. A 3 or 4 year internship well below their value. Some of these kids are pulled out of the poorest areas in America to make people millions of dollars.

They do pay them, with full scholorships, pell grants, special "help" funds, media exposure and often supply them tutors and some pretend jobs as athletic aids or student coaches.

Football Players Receive $17,000 Annually in Cash, all within NCAA Rules « HolyTurf

 

[iliveonramen]

They do pay them, with full scholorships, pell grants, special "help" funds, media exposure and often supply them tutors and some pretend jobs as athletic aids or student coaches.

Football Players Receive $17,000 Annually in Cash, all within NCAA Rules « HolyTurf

As I asked "The Man"....so you think they would be better off now than if they paid all of that stuff out of pocket and got their fair market value?

The only people getting paid WELL are those that have are part of big time football programs but don't don't actually play.

 

[The Man]

Are they? So you think they would be fools to get paid their fair market values and pay for everything they are "well compensated" for?

If it means that they would get kicked out of college, which it does if they are caught, yes they would be fools. Especially if their goal is to make it to the NFL.

If they'd rather make money out of high school, all they have to do is decline the college scholarship and enter the workforce out of high school.

 

[rocket88]

OTL -- NCAA investigating Johnny Manziel for profiting from autographs - ESPN

The NCAA is investigating to determine if last year's Heisman winner Johnny "football" Manziel violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1. According to the latest reports, Manziel has worked with at least 3 separate autograph borkers and signed over 4000 items. The key now is to determine if Manziel was paid to do so. If found guilty of violating the bylaw, Manziel could lose his college eligibility. He would also be ineligible for the NFL draft for a period of 18 months.

If the allegations are true, it would appear that Johnny Football has royally screwed himself.

I wouldn't be too worried about him. If he's ineligible for college ball, someone will sign him. He could play in Canada for a couple of years if it comes down to it. He'd probably do well in the CFL game.

 

[ttwtt78640]

As I asked "The Man"....so you think they would be better off now than if they paid all of that stuff out of pocket and got their fair market value?

The only people getting paid WELL are those that have are part of big time football programs but don't don't actually play.

The vast majority of them would get nothing close to what a college education costs, much less more than that if allowed to try to make outside income. A few big names go on to play at the NFL level, but most, by far, do not. Also any funds used to pay athletes would detract from funds used to support non-paid athletes, like those in minor or title 9 sports. The University of Texas (UT) sports money pays for all UT athletics plus generates money for other UT uses.

Texas had $163.3 million in athletic revenue in 2011-12

 

[iliveonramen]

If it means that they would get kicked out of college, which it does if they are caught, yes they would be fools. Especially if their goal is to make it to the NFL.

If they'd rather make money out of high school, all they have to do is decline the college scholarship and enter the workforce out of high school.

I'm not saying they should break the rules I'm saying the rules should change. That it's ridiculous that we have a situation where people are raking in money and only compensating the athletes a very small fraction of what they are worth.

Yeah....that's much of a choice. You have talents that could make you millions but you're required to give your talents for virtually free (compared to your market value) because of rules you didn't make by organizations that control the market. In the MLB where players actually have a choice on how they would like to reach their goals I'm fine with the compensation. Where it concerns basketball and football players not so much.

 

[OscarB63]

I wouldn't be too worried about him. If he's ineligible for college ball, someone will sign him. He could play in Canada for a couple of years if it comes down to it. He'd probably do well in the CFL game.

I see him as one of those guys whose off field antics are going to submarine any possible pro career he might have.

 

[iliveonramen]

The vast majority of them would get nothing close to what a college education costs, much less more than that if allowed to try to make outside income. A few big names go on to play at the NFL level, but most, by far, do not. Also any funds used to pay athletes would detract from funds used to support non-paid athletes, like those in minor or title 9 sports. The University of Texas (UT) sports money pays for all UT athletics plus generates money for other UT uses.

Texas had $163.3 million in athletic revenue in 2011-12

Here's How Much College Athletes Are Worth - Business Insider

Here's the study I was referencing which was posted everywhere on every sports blog/forum etc.

I'm not even arguing for them to get paid the values that this study came up with. This idea that they are fairly compensated now is just bogus.

If they had an option...like minor league baseball a scholarship would be fine.

I'd personally quit watching college football if all the best athletes played some type of minor league ball. Look at college baseball now? Look at how little they bring in compared to college football.

 

[OscarB63]

Here's How Much College Athletes Are Worth - Business Insider

Here's the study I was referencing which was posted everywhere on every sports blog/forum etc.

I'm not even arguing for them to get paid the values that this study came up with. This idea that they are fairly compensated now is just bogus.

If they had an option...like minor league baseball a scholarship would be fine.

I'd personally quit watching college football if all the best athletes played some type of minor league ball. Look at college baseball now? Look at how little they bring in compared to college football.

but baseball sucks and is boring as hell..... it's almost as bad as watching golf or bowling

 

[rocket88]

I see him as one of those guys whose off field antics are going to submarine any possible pro career he might have.

It takes a lot to do that if you're talented enough. Someone will give you a second chance.

Cris Carter with the Eagles couldn't keep his off-field problems with drugs in check so they cut him. The Vikings paid for him to get help and now he's in the Hall of Fame.

There's a rookie this year, Da'Rick Rogers. Got kicked off of Tennessee because of his problems and went undrafted. Buffalo signed him and it looks like they got a huge bargain so far. WR Rogers looks to earn roster spot with Bills - Canandaigua, NY - MPNnow

 

[Dapper Andy]

Slave system??? Oh those poor athletes, all they get is a very valuable college education that most people would kill to have for free, plus room and board. Man, they have it rough, especially considering that they're forced to be there and all.

Johnny Manziel is undoubtedly on a full scholarship but few student-athletes actually get anything along the lines of what you're describing.

I wouldn't call them slaves, of course, but insisting athletes get free tuition, room, board, etc. is nonsense.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Here's How Much College Athletes Are Worth - Business Insider

Here's the study I was referencing which was posted everywhere on every sports blog/forum etc.

I'm not even arguing for them to get paid the values that this study came up with. This idea that they are fairly compensated now is just bogus.

If they had an option...like minor league baseball a scholarship would be fine.

I'd personally quit watching college football if all the best athletes played some type of minor league ball. Look at college baseball now? Look at how little they bring in compared to college football.

That is how much the "big time" college athletes are worth, not a female diver, or a shot put tosser. Most of the NCAA revenue is split many, many ways and among all participating schools and sports.

 

[Dapper Andy]

OTL -- NCAA investigating Johnny Manziel for profiting from autographs - ESPN

The NCAA is investigating to determine if last year's Heisman winner Johnny "football" Manziel violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1. According to the latest reports, Manziel has worked with at least 3 separate autograph borkers and signed over 4000 items. The key now is to determine if Manziel was paid to do so. If found guilty of violating the bylaw, Manziel could lose his college eligibility. He would also be ineligible for the NFL draft for a period of 18 months.

If the allegations are true, it would appear that Johnny Football has royally screwed himself.

No, I don't think so.

NCAA has no authority to compel anyone to testify and it appears that no one is actually cooperating with this investigation.

The only thing it will do is hurt his draft value but it will all be a distant memory if he puts up another season like last years'.

 

[rocket88]

Johnny Manziel is undoubtedly on a full scholarship but few student-athletes actually get anything along the lines of what you're describing.

I wouldn't call them slaves, of course, but insisting athletes get free tuition, room, board, etc. is nonsense.

They do, but slaves got room and board also.

 

[OscarB63]

I wouldn't call them slaves, of course, but insisting athletes get free tuition, room, board, etc. is nonsense.

true, not every college athlete gets a full ride. but those who don't aren't the ones making the college money either and it is still better than their alternative..which is nothing.

My daughter got a full ride scholarship to Auburn University Montgomery to play soccer. She spent two years as the back-up keeper and then got tired of it and transferred out. Joined the National Guard to pay her way.

 

[Gipper]

I don't mind if he gets money, but it's against the rules.

If you revoke Title 9 and allow for this, you'd make football and men's basketball very happy...and every other sport very unhappy. Also, women's college sports would be gone, since they're always a huge net negative to their universities.

So it's either ban football and basketball players from making money and refuse to pay them a stipend...or watch 90% of college athletics go away for good. Your choice.

 

[OscarB63]

The only thing it will do is hurt his draft value but it will all be a distant memory if he puts up another season like last years'.

I'm hoping he gets to play. IMHO, his offensive line was a big part of why he was so successful last season and since most of them have graduated, I'd like to see how good he is without them.

 

[CRUE CAB]

OTL -- NCAA investigating Johnny Manziel for profiting from autographs - ESPN

The NCAA is investigating to determine if last year's Heisman winner Johnny "football" Manziel violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1. According to the latest reports, Manziel has worked with at least 3 separate autograph borkers and signed over 4000 items. The key now is to determine if Manziel was paid to do so. If found guilty of violating the bylaw, Manziel could lose his college eligibility. He would also be ineligible for the NFL draft for a period of 18 months.

If the allegations are true, it would appear that Johnny Football has royally screwed himself.

His family is loaded, why risk it on some autographs?

 

[iliveonramen]

That is how much the "big time" college athletes are worth, not a female diver, or a shot put tosser. Most of the NCAA revenue is split many, many ways and among all participating schools and sports.

Of course....I mentioned they wouldn't make the full amount because that is based comparisons to the NBA/NFL revenue split with players. There is title 9 and other things to take into consideration for college athletics. At UT they would definitely be making much higher than the cost of tuition for a public university over 4 years including room and board and other things provided.