• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Johnny Manziel toast?

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
OTL -- NCAA investigating Johnny Manziel for profiting from autographs - ESPN

The NCAA is investigating to determine if last year's Heisman winner Johnny "football" Manziel violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1. According to the latest reports, Manziel has worked with at least 3 separate autograph borkers and signed over 4000 items. The key now is to determine if Manziel was paid to do so. If found guilty of violating the bylaw, Manziel could lose his college eligibility. He would also be ineligible for the NFL draft for a period of 18 months.

If the allegations are true, it would appear that Johnny Football has royally screwed himself.
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
6,914
Reaction score
3,671
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Why is it OK for colleges and the NCAA to profit on athletes but the athletes themselves cannot receive compensation?

Who gets rich off having Manziel's picture and likeness on Playstation and XBOX games?

Who gets rich off Manziel's name on T A&M jerseys?

Why can't a player sign an autograph for $? (Not saying that he did.)

Why are students who receive academic scholarships from colleges and universities allowed to receive compensation, but student-athletes aren't?

The answer, in part, and common link to every question is: NCAA
 

Threegoofs

COVID survivor
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
51,610
Reaction score
18,353
Location
The birthplace of Italian Beef
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Hopefully, Manziel will challenge that in court and the eventual result will be the end of the slave system of labor in the NCAA.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
73,957
Reaction score
31,125
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Not liking the rules is not really relevant when it comes to breaking the rules. You may think the laws against smoking pot are stupid...doesnt mean you wont go to jail if you get busted for it.

I played college ball back in the 80's. Ouch...hurts to even type that. A scholarship was an opportunity to have someone pay for your college and lay football and MAYBE if you are good enough play at the next level. The vast VAST majority of college football players will never see semi-pro ball, let alone the NFL. College football is a business but it is supposed to be about the student athlete first and foremost. If you are good enough to get a full ride scholarship then you should embrace that, respect that, and be grateful for the opportunities that will provide you. The schools invest time, money and resources recruiting players and paying for the programs. As good as someone like Johnny Manziel is, he will never be worth as much to the school as the school has been to him.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,632
Reaction score
20,383
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
OTL -- NCAA investigating Johnny Manziel for profiting from autographs - ESPN

The NCAA is investigating to determine if last year's Heisman winner Johnny "football" Manziel violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1. According to the latest reports, Manziel has worked with at least 3 separate autograph borkers and signed over 4000 items. The key now is to determine if Manziel was paid to do so. If found guilty of violating the bylaw, Manziel could lose his college eligibility. He would also be ineligible for the NFL draft for a period of 18 months.

If the allegations are true, it would appear that Johnny Football has royally screwed himself.
I don't know if the young man is toast - he's certainly not very level-headed, but then lots of young men aren't.

What I do know, for an absolute fact, is that Americans, spurned on by their media, love to fixate on a person and build them up to unimaginable heights and once that person is at their pinnacle, the media sends out their investigative reporters to rip to shreds that person's life and tear them back down off the mountain. I consider it a form of mental illness.
 

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062179261 said:
Why is it OK for colleges and the NCAA to profit on athletes but the athletes themselves cannot receive compensation?

Who gets rich off having Manziel's picture and likeness on Playstation and XBOX games?

Who gets rich off Manziel's name on T A&M jerseys?

Why can't a player sign an autograph for $? (Not saying that he did.)

Why are students who receive academic scholarships from colleges and universities allowed to receive compensation, but student-athletes aren't?

The answer, in part, and common link to every question is: NCAA
They do receive compensation.
 

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Hopefully, Manziel will challenge that in court and the eventual result will be the end of the slave system of labor in the NCAA.
Slave system??? Oh those poor athletes, all they get is a very valuable college education that most people would kill to have for free, plus room and board. Man, they have it rough, especially considering that they're forced to be there and all.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
66,727
Reaction score
37,887
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Slave system??? Oh those poor athletes, all they get is a very valuable college education that most people would kill to have for free, plus room and board. Man, they have it rough, especially considering that they're forced to be there and all.
Not only a college education but media exposure to get noticed by the NFL.
 

Threegoofs

COVID survivor
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
51,610
Reaction score
18,353
Location
The birthplace of Italian Beef
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
If you are good enough to get a full ride scholarship then you should embrace that, respect that, and be grateful for the opportunities that will provide you. The schools invest time, money and resources recruiting players and paying for the programs. As good as someone like Johnny Manziel is, he will never be worth as much to the school as the school has been to him.
And if you're good enough to work at (insert company here), you should embrace and respect that and be grateful for the free food you get every once in a while, and the tuition reimbursement and free employee parking. Because no matter how good an employee you are, you'll never be worth as much to (insert company here) as (insert company here) has been to you.



Johnny Manziel and the NCAA’s prison economy. - Slate Magazine
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
69,847
Reaction score
51,968
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
he should be able to do that. everybody else is making money off of him.
 

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I'd be fine with prospect athletes getting paid money if they disaccociate football from college and create a minor league for the NFL that the top high school athletes can go to right out of high school instead of college.

Or, how about giving college athletes a choice: They can have, say a $10K/year stipend, but in exchange they have to pay for their college and room and board on their own.
 

Threegoofs

COVID survivor
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
51,610
Reaction score
18,353
Location
The birthplace of Italian Beef
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I really hope this blows up. Its time people took a look at college sports and realized that they really dont belong in Universities the way football and basketball are today.
 

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I really hope this blows up. Its time people took a look at college sports and realized that they really dont belong in Universities the way football and basketball are today.
I agree with that 100%
 

iliveonramen

Pontificator
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
11,257
Reaction score
5,711
Location
On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I'd be fine with prospect athletes getting paid money if they disaccociate football from college and create a minor league for the NFL that the top high school athletes can go to right out of high school instead of college.

Or, how about giving college athletes a choice: They can have, say a $10K/year stipend, but in exchange they have to pay for their college and room and board on their own.
the Fair market value for the average FBS football player is 137,357 per year and men's basketball player is 289,031. That's average! So a Johnny Manziel would probably be commanding much closer to at least 500k to a million if he received his fair market value. Even assuming that all the money just goes into a pool and players are paid out the same salary we're not talking chump change.

Oh...so people know how the study was done...it used a comparison to the NBA and NFL on what % of revenue they receive. Baskeball players collectively would receive 6.2 billion dollars. By team...the fairmarket value of say of say a lousiville basketball player would be around 1.5 million.

In football the top programs such as Texas/Michagan/Alabama etc would receive around 500k. Of course that is average once again...lifetime backups vs starters, QB's vs kickers and you would probably see the Manziels of the world making a lot more.
 
Last edited:

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
the Fair market value for the average FBS football player is 137,357 per year and men's basketball player is 289,031. That's average! So a Johnny Manziel would probably be commanding much closer to at least 500k to a million if he received his fair market value. Even assuming that all the money just goes into a pool and players are paid out the same salary we're not talking chump change.

Oh...so people know how the study was done...it used a comparison to the NBA and NFL on what % of revenue they receive. Baskeball players collectively would receive 6.2 billion dollars. By team...the fairmarket value of say of say a lousiville basketball player would be around 1.5 million.

In football the top programs such as Texas/Michagan/Alabama etc would receive around 500k. Of course that is average once again...lifetime backups vs starters, QB's vs kickers and you would probably see the Manziels of the world making a lot more.
Players are currently paid a lot more than chump change. That tuition and room & board ain't cheap. If that's not enough for them, then they're free to not go.
 
Last edited:

iliveonramen

Pontificator
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
11,257
Reaction score
5,711
Location
On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Players are paid a lot more than chump change. That tuition and room & board ain't cheap.
What is it compared to what their fair market value is?

I'm not saying there's no value to free tuition/tutors/room and board etc. but compared to what value they bring it...primarily at the top programs it is chump change.


It's not about what they get from the university...it's about what their talents are actually worth. College football is a business...there's a reason SEC coaches make millions of dollars a year.....it's a pretty ****ed up system because the main component the players are the least compensated in the massive money making scheme.
 

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
What is it compared to what their fair market value is?

I'm not saying there's no value to free tuition/tutors/room and board etc. but compared to what value they bring it...primarily at the top programs it is chump change.


It's not about what they get from the university...it's about what their talents are actually worth. College football is a business...there's a reason SEC coaches make millions of dollars a year.....it's a pretty ****ed up system because the main component the players are the least compensated in the massive money making scheme.
It doesn't matter. If they're not happy with the compensation (full ride to college), then they don't have to go. They can take their talents elsewhere.
 

Threegoofs

COVID survivor
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
51,610
Reaction score
18,353
Location
The birthplace of Italian Beef
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Players are currently paid a lot more than chump change. That tuition and room & board ain't cheap. If that's not enough for them, then they're free to not go.
Seems to me that that shouldnt preclude them from getting money when the university sells their likeness or name for a profit, like a Johnny Manziel jersey. Manziel will never see money from that. Manziel is free to sign jerseys for the NCAA to sell, but he cant sell his own autograph. Nike would love to have him in a commercial. But he's not allowed, because the University gets paid to wear Adiddas and Manziel isnt allowed to wear Nike. How is that right?
 

The Man

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
5,135
Reaction score
1,693
Location
York, Pennsylvania
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Seems to me that that shouldnt preclude them from getting money when the university sells their likeness or name for a profit, like a Johnny Manziel jersey. Manziel will never see money from that. Manziel is free to sign jerseys for the NCAA to sell, but he cant sell his own autograph. Nike would love to have him in a commercial. But he's not allowed, because the University gets paid to wear Adiddas and Manziel isnt allowed to wear Nike. How is that right?
They don't sell college jerseys with players' names on them. Anywhere. So no one has ever bought a Johnny Manziel jersey. They may have a jersey with his current number on it, but that number has been worn by many players and will be worn by many in the future, so its not a Manziel jersey.

And if the university is selling Manziel autographed memorabilia, I would ask, why is he giving his autograph for the university to sell? He's not forced to do that.
 
Last edited:

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
It doesn't matter. If they're not happy with the compensation (full ride to college), then they don't have to go. They can take their talents elsewhere.
my thoughts exactly. They get free room and board, free tuition and books, free tutoring if they need help and, if they are at one of the "big money" schools, they get free national exposure of their talents.
 

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
As with almost every one of these kinds of cases...the time to complain about the rules/system is BEFORE you break them and not after you get caught. If the allegations are true....he knew the rules and he knowingly broke them. doesn't matter what you think of the system, you can't get around that.
 

Threegoofs

COVID survivor
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
51,610
Reaction score
18,353
Location
The birthplace of Italian Beef
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
As with almost every one of these kinds of cases...the time to complain about the rules/system is BEFORE you break them and not after you get caught. If the allegations are true....he knew the rules and he knowingly broke them. doesn't matter what you think of the system, you can't get around that.

Much like the civil rights battles in the 50s and 60s, sometimes you've got to break the rules to change them. The NCAA has no interest in actually cutting into their revenue stream, and the athletes are only around for a few years.
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,246
Reaction score
32,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative

iliveonramen

Pontificator
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
11,257
Reaction score
5,711
Location
On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
It doesn't matter. If they're not happy with the compensation (full ride to college), then they don't have to go. They can take their talents elsewhere.

Haha! Like the majority of big time college football players care about their full rides. They go to college programs because that's the only real pathway to actually getting compensated for what they do...and the NCAA milks them for all their worth before before they are allowed to leave and get paid paid fair market value. Let me guess...you consider yourself a free market guy..well collegiate sports and the NFL are not the free market they are monopolies and act like it.
 

Dr. Chuckles

King Conspiratard
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
12,895
Reaction score
2,909
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
That'a a pretty blatant violation and leaves me wondering how anyone could allow that to happen in a position of authority
 
Top Bottom