Is it true?

[bub]

In this video they say Americans can't choose their school??? (at 17'30")

YouTube - 20/20 Stupid in America

18'05" and 19"40 are interresting too.

It's strange because some guys here always bash me "oh look we are free and not you etc..." but I see in reality I have more opportunities and choices than them (for example studying in both a Frenchspeaker and a Dutchspeaker university)!

 

[Chanda]

In this video they say...

John Stossel is a notorious and proven propagandist. In this video, Stossel misrepresented public schools using movie clips from Ridgemont High, Clueless, Ferris Bueller's Day Off (to illustrate public school teachers are boring), and Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. :roll:

Read on:

Summary: ABC's John Stossel presented a "special report" on the failure of American public schools that included a series of misleading claims, a lack of balance in reporting and interviews, and video clips apparently created primarily for entertainment to argue for expanding "school choice" initiatives such as vouchers and charter schools.

Media Matters - Stossel presented skewed 20/20 segment on "stupid" public schools

 

[Avelina]

In this video they say Americans can't choose their school??? (at 17'30")

YouTube - 20/20 Stupid in America

18'05" and 19"40 are interresting too.

It's strange because some guys here always bash me "oh look we are free and not you etc..." but I see in reality I have more opportunities and choices than them (for example studying in both a Frenchspeaker and a Dutchspeaker university)!

You mentioned University. Of course, students choose their college. Although some colleges are way out of reach money wise unless you have good scholarship.
But for the most part in grades 5 through 12, i would agree the video represents a good portion of American schools. I had the same problem as some parents shown who wanted their kids in better schools.
Once we moved during the school year in Texas and all of us literally cried when we found out what school the kids had to attend.
For instance, my son was doing well in ROTC and could very well have prepared for officers candidate school in the future, but even though the other district didn't offer it and some other classes we were still forced to send them there.
I finally scraped the money together and sent my two youngest children to private school. You can tell the difference in their education even to this day when they are all grown and have made career choices.
It is very heartbreaking for a mother or any parent to experience this.

I would like to ask you if the class and/or school size changes in your country when children enter their teens. I have always thought that was a big part of the problem here.
When they are small they are sent to neighborhood schools and then around age 10 or 11 the populations of these small elementary schools are sent to one huge "middle school" then one huge "junior high" and "high school."

 

[Mr. D]

It always comes back to the unanswerable question: "If our public schools are so bad, how do so many Asian immigrants get great educations in them and then go on to top colleges to become doctors, etc.?" We know the answer don't we! :lol:

 

[bub]

John Stossel is a notorious and proven propagandist.

OK I had never heard about him!

 

[bub]

You mentioned University. Of course, students choose their college. Although some colleges are way out of reach money wise unless you have good scholarship.
But for the most part in grades 5 through 12, i would agree the video represents a good portion of American schools. I had the same problem as some parents shown who wanted their kids in better schools.
Once we moved during the school year in Texas and all of us literally cried when we found out what school the kids had to attend.
For instance, my son was doing well in ROTC and could very well have prepared for officers candidate school in the future, but even though the other district didn't offer it and some other classes we were still forced to send them there.
I finally scraped the money together and sent my two youngest children to private school. You can tell the difference in their education even to this day when they are all grown and have made career choices.
It is very heartbreaking for a mother or any parent to experience this.

I didn't know that until yesterday! Here too there are better and weaker schools, but since you're free to choose and since there is no big difference of price (public school are nearly free, the "private" (= "catholic") school I went in was $100 a year.
But it seems there is only 1 school per district there! In my town (100,000 inhabitants) there were 3 "private" schools, 1 "public" and 2 "technic" schools (of course they are much smaller, usually less than 1000 students (from 3 to 18 years old))

I would like to ask you if the class and/or school size changes in your country when children enter their teens. I have always thought that was a big part of the problem here.
When they are small they are sent to neighborhood schools and then around age 10 or 11 the populations of these small elementary schools are sent to one huge "middle school" then one huge "junior high" and "high school."

Until I was 12 I went to a small village school (100 kids) but many of those who live in the center of the town directly go to one of the "big" schools, where they can stay until they are 18. As I said, those "big" schools usually don't reach 1000 students (from 3 to 18).

Then when they have finished it's a big change because some universities are much bigger.

 

[bub]

It always comes back to the unanswerable question: "If our public schools are so bad, how do so many Asian immigrants get great educations in them and then go on to top colleges to become doctors, etc.?" We know the answer don't we! :lol:

To be honnest, it's very hard to compare the level of education between 2 countries. In this video they say Belgians are more skilled than Americans, but a few months ago in a newspaper I read that according to an American study, Americans and English scored pretty well and Belgians were among the worst.

Indeed, we don't learn the same things the same way. This test was a multiple choice (which is a common way to test students in the USA they said, but very rare here) about very practical things (the newspaper said here we learn more theoretical things) with a bad translation (it confused the students) and furthermore the difference between the first and 25th "best countries" was tiny (for example USA scored 1025 and Belgium 975, the difference is statistically negligible).

So I don't say we are "better" or "worse", I was just surprised about the fact you can't choose your college.

 

[The silenced majority]

John Stossel is a notorious and proven propagandist.

Lol, so is mediamatters.org.

At least Stossel isn't relying on taxpayers and George Soros funded front groups to sign his paycheck.

mediamatters.org is a partisan attack-machine that is quickly amassing lawsuit after lawsuit against them for their outrageous unsubstantiated claims. Hopefully soon they'll be gone altogether.

All Americans need to call their respective Representatives and ask them to pull all public funding going to mediamatters & remove their tax-exempt status as well.

 

[Gardener]

OK I had never heard about him!

But you were sure willing to believe him.

You may tout your schools all you want, but if you are a typical example of such,I would say that they have failed quite miserably. You show quite the propensity for gobbling up anything you find on the internet with complete gullibility and without any concerns for veracity or point of view. Had your schools prepared you properly, you would display at least a modicum of critical thought instead of this rather singular lack thereof.

 

[bub]

But you were sure willing to believe him.

You may tout your schools all you want, but if you are a typical example of such,I would say that they have failed quite miserably. You show quite the propensity for gobbling up anything you find on the internet with complete gullibility and without any concerns for veracity or point of view. Had your schools prepared you properly, you would display at least a modicum of critical thought instead of this rather singular lack thereof.

Why do you always pollute topics with personnal attacks? Why do you never debate?

How could I have known this guy was biased? Over 2250 people have rated his video quite good (4/5 on average) and in the comments they don't seem to say it's particularly biased.

Yet instead of politely telling me I should not believe him (like Chanda has done), you make an hateful personnal attack. Is it your way to "debate"? Pathetic. :thumbdown

Furthermore, biased or not, you can't choose your college. That was my point, and it is true.

(@ the mods: you are not aware how much effort it takes to me not to answer agressively to Gardener):stooges :flame: :tomato: :tomatofac

Hey, rotzak, as Billo says, Good For You!

 

[Onine]

No, youre right, you really cant choose your college here in America. Most people here in New York end up going to ECC, even the graduates. Whats the alternative? University of Buffalo? That place is full of foreign exchange richies with a 4.0 GPA. The whole place wreaks or elitism. No one in their right mind, from my part of the streets, would ever waste their time there.

So, yeah, if you got the family funds to back you up on it you have a "choice" between yale harvard and all them really fine elitist schools. But the rest of us cant afford college. I could barely afford to get into ECC if I wanted to.


Besides that though the money I make now is on par with people just stepping out of most ECC courses. In a few years Ill be making roughly 25% or so more than them annually. The best part is that I dont have to pay back $40,000+ USD in exactly 365 days like most "Students" will have to because of all the loans they took on their way into "college"


The American Education System Is Completely FUBAR.

The Board of Education is useless

Teachers in High School do NOT know how to teach, regardless of the "classes" they have taken: most "teach" straight out of the book, word for word.




College is just another way for the creditors to get some more money out of ya. Get educated the REAL way and find a REAL job. Learn a TRADE and MASTER it and you will be making a LOT more than them richies.

I cant wait until I am 40 years old making a 6 digit income. its VERY probable.

 

[Chanda]

Lol, so is mediamatters.org.

How so? Media Matters analyzes media content for accuracy, reports its findings, and provides sources.

At least Stossel isn't relying on taxpayers and George Soros funded front groups to sign his paycheck.

Media Matters is privately funded. No, Stossel doesn't rely on George Soros funded front groups; he relies on conservative groups like the Olin Foundation.

mediamatters.org is a partisan attack-machine that is quickly amassing lawsuit after lawsuit against them for their outrageous unsubstantiated claims. Hopefully soon they'll be gone altogether.

Could you be more specific? Who has sued and why?

All Americans need to call their respective Representatives and ask them to pull all public funding going to mediamatters & remove their tax-exempt status as well.

Media Matters is not publicly funded, and why do you think a non-profit organization should be taxed?

 

[The silenced majority]

How so? Media Matters analyzes media content for accuracy, reports its findings, and provides sources.

Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.

They are nakedly partisan as evidenced by their own mission statement.

Media Matters is privately funded. No, Stossel doesn't rely on George Soros funded front groups; he relies on conservative groups like the Olin Foundation.

Well, at least we're being honest now. At best it's one propagandist criticizing another.

The only group backing Stossel I could find was the Libertarian Palmer R. Chitester Fund.

"To date, neither Media Matters nor its president and CEO David Brock has received any money from Soros or from any organization with which he is affiliated."

But, in 2003 when it was disclosed that mediamatters.org received a heavy amount of funding from heavily backed Soros groups and confidants like: Peter Miller, The Center for American Progress, The Open Society Institute & Moveon.org MMFA's statement changed a bit.

"Media Matters for America has never received funding directly from George Soros"

Other donors:
Leo Hindery Jr., a former cable magnate
Susie Tompkins Buell, a co-founder of the fashion company Esprit and a close ally of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York
James Hormel, a San Francisco philanthropist who nearly served as ambassador to Luxembourg during the Clinton administration
Bren Simon, a Democratic activist and the wife of shopping-mall developer Mel Simon
New York psychologist and philanthropist Gail Furman

Could you be more specific? Who has sued and why?

mmfa being sued for libel/defamation

Who?:Anthony “Andy” Martin
Why?:They made a claim he's an anti-Semite and mentally ill.

Media Matters is not publicly funded, and why do you think a non-profit organization should be taxed?

MMFA can accept tax-deductible contributions under section 501(c)(3) of the tax code.

A group that is behind raising taxes and expanding government serves too much in the interest of government to receive tax-exempt status IMO.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by The silenced majority
Lol, so is mediamatters.org.

At least Stossel isn't relying on taxpayers and George Soros funded front groups to sign his paycheck.

mediamatters.org is a partisan attack-machine that is quickly amassing lawsuit after lawsuit against them for their outrageous unsubstantiated claims. Hopefully soon they'll be gone altogether.

All Americans need to call their respective Representatives and ask them to pull all public funding going to mediamatters & remove their tax-exempt status as well.

Censorship of the press diminishes the marketplace of ideas and brings this country closer to that of Nazi Germany. The US mainstream corporate media has let this country down in their coverage of the war. The only way to get the truth is to seek out alternative sources of news and compare similar articles covering the same subject.

It is interesting you picked a user name that is the same name they are calling the hundred's of thousands of Iraqis that have lost their lives as a result of our decision to go to war.

I find it personally disgusting you would choose such a name and not champion their plight.

 

[The silenced majority]

Censorship of the press diminishes the marketplace of ideas and brings this country closer to that of Nazi Germany. The US mainstream corporate media has let this country down in their coverage of the war. The only way to get the truth is to seek out alternative sources of news and compare similar articles covering the same subject.

So you are with me in condemnation of MMFA? They're censoring the press too.

MMFA isn't solely concerned with the Iraq war as evidenced by their constant charges of conservative pundits & personalities as being nazis, fascists, liars and racists. They take staments out of context, use them in a way to appeal to those socially conditioned by political correctness & appeal for their dupes to petition the removal of the aforementioned personalities via media ownership or through government legislation.

Their stock and trade is the diminishing of the marketplace of ideals.

It is interesting you picked a user name that is the same name they are calling the hundred's of thousands of Iraqis that have lost their lives as a result of our decision to go to war.

I find it personally disgusting you would choose such a name and not champion their plight.

I'm in support of pulling financial aid to all countries, in all ways, shapes and forms including building a nation in Iraq for the sake of the Brave New World Elites.

Providing financial assistance to all nations was a stated goal of Marxist subversives in the 1960's anyhow.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

I will champion their plight in seeking the dismantling of the over-bloated Federal government the left-wing has worked so hard over the past 60 year to create. In that I hope to see a future where the federal government and corporate/global lobbying interests are limited and the power is returned to the individual sovereign states. In doing so, hopefully we can avoid such foreign policy disasters in the future like the war in Iraq.

 

[Chanda]

Who?:Anthony “Andy” Martin...Why?:They made a claim he's an anti-Semite and mentally ill.

That's only one (frivolous) lawsuit, yet you claimed...

mediamatters.org is a partisan attack-machine that is quickly amassing lawsuit after lawsuit against them for their outrageous unsubstantiated claims.

What are the other "amassed" lawsuits?

MMFA can accept tax-deductible contributions under section 501(c)(3) of the tax code.

A similar conservative site, Brent Bozell's Media Research Center, can accept tax-deductible contributions as well.

A group that is behind raising taxes and expanding government serves too much in the interest of government to receive tax-exempt status IMO.

The key phrase being, "IMO." The purpose of MMFA is to analyze media content for accuracy which serves the interest of the public.

Interesting that you think an organization that pointed out Stossel's blatant use of movie clips and segments of "Jaywalking" to misrepresent public schools, out-of-context material, and one-sided reporting should be defunded and sued out of existence, so that Stossel can continue his biased reporting completely unfettered by fact-checkers.

 

[Stace]

Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but here in good ol' Charlotte, NC, yes, we can choose which school to send our children to. Even though the county (our school system is county wide, as Charlotte takes up most of the dang county) is zoned so that for the most part where you live dictates which schools your child attends, you still have a choice. The district conducts lotteries in which there are a certain number of open slots for each school, so you can enter your child's name into this lottery in hopes of getting into a different school. We also have magnet and charter schools, and if you just don't like the public system at all, we have a ton of private schools. Homeschool is also an option.

And if you really don't like any of the schools in your area, you can always move.

No, youre right, you really cant choose your college here in America. Most people here in New York end up going to ECC, even the graduates. Whats the alternative? University of Buffalo? That place is full of foreign exchange richies with a 4.0 GPA. The whole place wreaks or elitism. No one in their right mind, from my part of the streets, would ever waste their time there.

Ummmm....last time I checked, we were all free to apply to any college or university in the country. You're not restricted to schools just in your area. That's one of the big attractions of college for many young people - the ability to go anywhere they want (as long as they're accepted, of course). You're not restricted to ECC or UB.....you could go all the way out to UCLA if you wanted.

 

[The silenced majority]

That's only one (frivolous) lawsuit, yet you claimed...
What are the other "amassed" lawsuits?

Gee, it seems I may have embellished that one a bit. There are rumblings of lawsuits abound, but Andy Martin's is the only official one to date.

A similar conservative site, Brent Bozell's Media Research Center, can accept tax-deductible contributions as well.

They are similar in that they both are tax-free non-profit org's, that's it.

The MRC examines a mainstream media that claims to be neutral and exposes their blatant bias. MMFA takes quotes from unabashedly conservative pundits presents them in a way to make their core-constituency (Marxists, socialists, about 20% of the democrat party & the extremely gullible) rabid enough to man the phone lines and flood e-mail accounts.

The only way that the two would be similar is if the Mainstream media was actually honest about their slant. Since the MSM isn't honest, it's about 1 group of avowed conservatives criticizing a supposedly unbiased MSM and another group of professed liberals criticizing professed conservatives.

The key phrase being, "IMO." The purpose of MMFA is to analyze media content for accuracy which serves the interest of the public.

Since I was honest and retracted the statement about lawsuits, would you mind re-examining the above statement.

I spoke out simply because you pressented MMFA as a legitimate source, not the patisan attack machine that it is.

Interesting that you think an organization that pointed out Stossel's blatant use of movie clips and segments of "Jaywalking" to misrepresent public schools, out-of-context material, and one-sided reporting should be defunded and sued out of existence, so that Stossel can continue his biased reporting completely unfettered by fact-checkers.

I don't think they should be sued out of existence unless they deserve it. Besides, MMFA doesn't really report "facts" as much as they just use selective quotes to spur on their constituency to boycott, complain etc....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704120010

Now why would they need to post such commentary when the people who fund/broadcast said programming want everybody to listen to it anyhow?

Simple.

It's intent is to appeal to the hopelessly partisan who are either so dead-set or too lazy to actually listen to what the other side is actually saying in context; for these people MMFA serves an important purpose.

Just read a paragraph, listen to a 1min soundbite, get pissed, send an e-mail.

usefullidiotinc.llc.org

Referring to them (us) as bigots, racist, sexists, homophobic, misogynists only ensures a strong listenership for talk-radio for years to come (unless your comrades can have the government do something about that of course).

Haven't they figured that out by now?

 

[Chanda]

MMFA takes quotes from unabashedly conservative pundits presents them in a way to make their core-constituency (Marxists, socialists, about 20% of the democrat party & the extremely gullible) rabid enough to man the phone lines and flood e-mail accounts.

Sooo, it isn't that conservative pundits make outrageous statements...it's just that MMFA presents them that way...:doh

MMFA labeled Andy Martin "anti-semite" because, according to a February 10, 2006 Chicago Tribune article, Martin "referred to a federal bankruptcy judge as a 'crooked, slimy Jew, who has a history of lying and thieving common to members of his race,'" and expressed "understand[ing] for how the Holocaust took place."

Media Matters - Anti-Semite Andy Martin in NewsMax: "Free Obama's White Grandmother"

The same MMFA article reports that Martin claimed Barack Obama had locked his grandmother in a closet.

The only way that the two would be similar is if the Mainstream media was actually honest about their slant. Since the MSM isn't honest, it's about 1 group of avowed conservatives criticizing a supposedly unbiased MSM and another group of professed liberals criticizing professed conservatives.

You are 100% wrong. MMFA is a media watchdog for all the media, including the so-called MSM. If you looked at the site, you would see coverage of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Washington Post, etc.

Since I was honest and retracted the statement about lawsuits

:roll: Very big of you. You hardly had a choice.

Besides, MMFA doesn't really report "facts" as much as they just use selective quotes to spur on their constituency to boycott, complain etc....

Have you ever looked at the site? The "facts" are precisely what is reported. Direct quotes within ample context are given and very little editorializing is done. How can quotes be taken from context, when in every case a link or film clip is given to the original offending source?

Just read a paragraph, listen to a 1min soundbite, get pissed, send an e-mail.

Like this paragraph?

On the June 14 edition of MSNBC's Tucker, host Tucker Carlson asked Weekly Standard senior editor Andrew Ferguson if Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) "could, in the end, be a Jimmy Carter in the sense that she gets a significant percentage ... of evangelical votes," later asking: "Can you imagine a scenario, though, where the Democrat gets religious voters? Or is abortion is still the stumbling block?" Ferguson answered: "Only in -- religious in the way that Hillary Clinton is religious, which is to say of a very liberal Protestant sort of view, in which they believe in everything but God." Carlson said later, "I have never met anybody less sincere than the religious left."

Media Matters - In Tucker discussion, Weekly Standard 's Ferguson on Clinton and liberal Protestants: "[T]hey believe in everything but God"

These remarks should be offensive to any fair-minded person.

Referring to them (us) as bigots, racist, sexists, homophobic, misogynists...

There is very little editorializing on the MMFA site, as anyone who actually views it can see.

 

[Avelina]

It always comes back to the unanswerable question: "If our public schools are so bad, how do so many Asian immigrants get great educations in them and then go on to top colleges to become doctors, etc.?" We know the answer don't we! :lol:

Maybe someone else has other experiences, but there is a large Asian population in the little town where I live in Oregon and I have never seen any Asian children at the public schools.

Also please take note: I am not un-American because I have an experienced opinion.
I was just answering a question honestly.

 

[Avelina]

But you were sure willing to believe him.

You may tout your schools all you want, but if you are a typical example of such,I would say that they have failed quite miserably. You show quite the propensity for gobbling up anything you find on the internet with complete gullibility and without any concerns for veracity or point of view. Had your schools prepared you properly, you would display at least a modicum of critical thought instead of this rather singular lack thereof.

Thank you very much you big blow hard. You have just insulted this person and embarrassed our country all at the same time.
And by the way, how many children have you registered for school/gotten the proper immunizations/met with their teachers/looked over their homework
etcetera etcetera???????

 

[The silenced majority]

Sooo, it isn't that conservative pundits make outrageous statements...it's just that MMFA presents them that way...:doh

MMFA labeled Andy Martin "anti-semite" because, according to a February 10, 2006 Chicago Tribune article, Martin "referred to a federal bankruptcy judge as a 'crooked, slimy Jew, who has a history of lying and thieving common to members of his race,'" and expressed "understand[ing] for how the Holocaust took place."

Martin has already won 2 lawsuits pertaining to this issue. It's been long since put to rest. MMFA being the smear merchants they are just drudged it up to defame him, now they'll be sued.

Media Matters - Anti-Semite Andy Martin in NewsMax: "Free Obama's White Grandmother"

The same MMFA article reports that Martin claimed Barack Obama had locked his grandmother in a closet.

So what? Of course it's outrageous. So is freedom o0f speech at times. That's how it works.

You are 100% wrong. MMFA is a media watchdog for all the media, including the so-called MSM. If you looked at the site, you would see coverage of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Washington Post, etc.

Your patent dishonesty is enough to end this debate right now.

Alas, we'll try this again..

Media Matters for America is a not-for-profit, progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media. Media Matters is the first organization to systematically monitor the media for conservative misinformation every day, in real time. For more information, visit mediamatters.org.

Since they are a "media watchdog for all the media", what was their stance on the Dan Rather forged document scandal? How about Keith Ohlberman's Nazi salute to the Republican party? Surely a "media watchdog" would have noted things like these as well, but since MMFA isn't really a watchdog as much as an attack dog, they remained silent.

Showing their true colors.

:roll: Very big of you. You hardly had a choice.

Yeah, it's called being honest.

Are you taking notes?

Have you ever looked at the site? The "facts" are precisely what is reported. Direct quotes within ample context are given and very little editorializing is done. How can quotes be taken from context, when in every case a link or film clip is given to the original offending source?


Like this paragraph?

On the June 14 edition of MSNBC's Tucker, host Tucker Carlson asked Weekly Standard senior editor Andrew Ferguson if Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) "could, in the end, be a Jimmy Carter in the sense that she gets a significant percentage ... of evangelical votes," later asking: "Can you imagine a scenario, though, where the Democrat gets religious voters? Or is abortion is still the stumbling block?" Ferguson answered: "Only in -- religious in the way that Hillary Clinton is religious, which is to say of a very liberal Protestant sort of view, in which they believe in everything but God." Carlson said later, "I have never met anybody less sincere than the religious left."

Media Matters - In Tucker discussion, Weekly Standard 's Ferguson on Clinton and liberal Protestants: "[T]hey believe in everything but God"

These remarks should be offensive to any fair-minded person.

...a fair-minded person with tissue paper for skin maybe. Tucker Carlson couldn't begin to offset the propaganda spewed forth by his co-worker's Keith Ohlberman or Chris Matthews, if MMFA wasn't (by their own admission) biased they'd report it.

There is very little editorializing on the MMFA site, as anyone who actually views it can see.

Really?


MMFA doesn't check & correct facts as much as they post comments and say to their adherents: "get mad"; appealing to a split-up America that has been subdivided by left-wing orthodoxy for decades.

..."look what he said about gays"

..."look what he said about Blacks"

 

[Chanda]

Martin has already won 2 lawsuits pertaining to this issue. It's been long since put to rest. MMFA being the smear merchants they are just drudged it up to defame him, now they'll be sued.

All you have to do is read Andy Martin's Newsmax article about Barrack Obama to see the real smearing is done by Martin himself:

Free Obama's White Grandmother

Martin is not a victim, as the Chicago Tribune confirms:

"...Yet the Illinois Supreme Court denied him (Andy Martin) a law license, saying he lacked the fitness to be an attorney. Federal courts have repeatedly sanctioned him for what judges have said is his filing of hundreds of largely meritless legal actions. He's had several stints in jail.

He has repeatedly refused to answer questions from the Tribune and has in the past unsuccessfully sued the newspaper for libel. On Thursday, during a telephone news conference, he threatened to sue the Tribune over a recent poll on candidates for governor that showed he had support from fewer than 1 percent of likely Republican voters.

...In 1973, the Illinois Supreme Court refused to allow Martin admission to the bar. The court's decision noted that Martin, a University of Illinois law school graduate who was previously known by the name Anthony R. Martin-Trigona, had a Selective Service record that showed he had a "moderately-severe character defect manifested by well documented ideation with a paranoid flavor and a grandiose character."

...A decade later, the federal court system began issuing sanctions against Martin for his filing of what one federal judge, Edward Weinfeld of New York, termed as "a substantial number of lawsuits of a vexatious, frivolous and scandalous nature." The courts eventually required him to obtain prior approval to file any legal action at any federal court. The restrictions require that judges, who are not identified to Martin, decide whether the filings have merit and should proceed.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals noted Martin's litigious conduct appeared to be an attempt to "harass persons who have unluckily crossed his path." The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago noted Martin's tendency "to exaggerate, to believe himself the victim of conspiracies where none exist, and to suspect without any reasonable basis that others are persecuting him."
Federal Bureau of Prisons records show Martin has spent several stints in several federal prisons on issues related to contempt of court.

Back in Florida, Palm Beach County Court officials say an arrest warrant for him remains active. Officials with the Palm Beach clerk's office said the warrant is still outstanding for Martin for violation of probation, stemming from a 1996 criminal mischief case in which he damaged a video camera belonging to a local TV station covering his campaign for state Senate. A judge ordered Martin to spend several months in jail but a paperwork glitch resulted in Martin's release after only about one month. They say he still has several months left to serve.

Chicago Tribune news | Registration

So what? Of course it's outrageous. So is freedom o0f speech at times. That's how it works.

So it's libel (or smearing) if MMFA reports the truth, but it's "freedom of speech" when Andy Martin or other conservative pundits lie?

Your patent dishonesty is enough to end this debate right now.

See above.

 

[bub]

Well, what are you fighting for? Calm down, it's just a video!

 

[The silenced majority]

All you have to do is read Andy Martin's Newsmax article about Barrack Obama to see the real smearing is done by Martin himself:

Free Obama's White Grandmother

While it may not appeal to you in the manner it's presented, there is a certain truth to it. Barak Obama has been criticized for not being "black enough" by Black leaders. Al Sharpton referred to him as the "magic Negro" denoting he believed that Obama had been given a pass by an establishment "notorious" for keeping blacks down. He has alto to lose so to speak if any more whiteness shines through. That's reality; it's a reality created by left-wing divide and conquer tactics that have this country ideologically crippled, and incapable it seems at times to see past the little boxes set up for us by those who seek to divide us.

Barak can't be too white or he'll lose the black vote. He can't be too manly or he'll lose the woman vote, he can't be too religious or he'll lose support from seculars & the gay community...etc ad nausea

Martin is not a victim, as the Chicago Tribune confirms:

"...Yet the Illinois Supreme Court denied him (Andy Martin) a law license, saying he lacked the fitness to be an attorney. Federal courts have repeatedly sanctioned him for what judges have said is his filing of hundreds of largely meritless legal actions. He's had several stints in jail.

He has repeatedly refused to answer questions from the Tribune and has in the past unsuccessfully sued the newspaper for libel. On Thursday, during a telephone news conference, he threatened to sue the Tribune over a recent poll on candidates for governor that showed he had support from fewer than 1 percent of likely Republican voters.

...In 1973, the Illinois Supreme Court refused to allow Martin admission to the bar. The court's decision noted that Martin, a University of Illinois law school graduate who was previously known by the name Anthony R. Martin-Trigona, had a Selective Service record that showed he had a "moderately-severe character defect manifested by well documented ideation with a paranoid flavor and a grandiose character."

...A decade later, the federal court system began issuing sanctions against Martin for his filing of what one federal judge, Edward Weinfeld of New York, termed as "a substantial number of lawsuits of a vexatious, frivolous and scandalous nature." The courts eventually required him to obtain prior approval to file any legal action at any federal court. The restrictions require that judges, who are not identified to Martin, decide whether the filings have merit and should proceed.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals noted Martin's litigious conduct appeared to be an attempt to "harass persons who have unluckily crossed his path." The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago noted Martin's tendency "to exaggerate, to believe himself the victim of conspiracies where none exist, and to suspect without any reasonable basis that others are persecuting him."
Federal Bureau of Prisons records show Martin has spent several stints in several federal prisons on issues related to contempt of court.

Back in Florida, Palm Beach County Court officials say an arrest warrant for him remains active. Officials with the Palm Beach clerk's office said the warrant is still outstanding for Martin for violation of probation, stemming from a 1996 criminal mischief case in which he damaged a video camera belonging to a local TV station covering his campaign for state Senate. A judge ordered Martin to spend several months in jail but a paperwork glitch resulted in Martin's release after only about one month. They say he still has several months left to serve.

Chicago Tribune news | Registration

Wow, we almost don't even need the trial. Of course we aren't yet to the day where the Chicago Tribune can try a case on it's editorial board.

MMFA committed what will be considered libel unless they can prove Martin actually IS an anti-Semite. Conservative talkers levy such charges out all the time, but they are almost always followed with the all-important IMO. If not, they get contacted by a lawyer, and then they retract their statements. MMFA didn't retract their statement, so obviously they must have some evidence to back it up. That's how libel works. If not, they pay.

So it's libel (or smearing) if MMFA reports the truth, but it's "freedom of speech" when Andy Martin or other conservative pundits lie?

What did Andy Martin lie about? Nothing. MMFA should spend as much time de-bunking conservative claims (what they're supposed to be about) as they do stirring up their heavily sub-divided base to complain.

I kinda liked this one:

, Beck called Rosie O'Donnell, co-host of ABC's The View, a "fat witch," claimed that O'Donnell has "blubber ... just pouring out of her eyes," and asked, "Do you know how many oil lamps we could keep burning just on Rosie O'Donnell fat?" On the March 23 edition of his radio show, Beck said, "I'm a little ashamed" for calling O'Donnell "a fat witch" -- then added, "But she's so fat."

Oh no! He broke the freedom from being offended law!:shock:

So did he:

"They're people who attack me. It's run by a homosexual activist who hates anybody in the media who does not kowtow to the homosexual agenda." Referring to Media Matters CEO and President David Brock, Savage added: "The man who runs it is, in my opinion:2wave: , a straight-out maniac. He would belong much more happily in the ex-Soviet Union."