Is it right or is it wrong? (1 Viewer)

[wesin_90]

Before I begin, I want to ask a question, and I will be very thankful if someone replied me an answer. Why is the criminal rate in america so high even though you have so brutal punishments,( one example death penalty)?

I partly think that death penalty should be legalized. But only if the person commiting the crime has murdered. If you are going to sentence someone to death, there should be enough evidence bounding the person to the crime. But on the other hand side, countries like Sweden, have a very low criminal rate and they never use deathpenalties. They have really high standards in the jails, and also giving the criminal theraphy.

But of course, when you for example watch the FBI- files, you get relieved when the "bad guy" gets sentenced to death. I mean that is just the human nature, and if you think twice is it really true that the government comitts a crime, when they are actually making USA a better place to live in? Getting rid of all the evilness in society.:roll:

 

[CoffeeSaint]

Why do we have crime? There are too many reasons to single one out as the simple answer. Part of it is that we teach our children that they can be anything they want to be, that they have the power to get whatever they want if they just believe strongly enough and work hard enough; but the economic and political structures make that a lie. Some people cannot achieve the American Dream, no matter how hard they try. So they are frustrated, and feel entitled to what they cannot gain through their own efforts -- so they steal. We have millions of people afflicted with generational poverty, and we have made no real attempt to get them out of it; instead we have ghettoized them, and blamed them for their situation. And perhaps Americans are simply immoral enough to be willing to commit crimes, though I personally don't think that is generally true. However, amongst 300 million people, you are bound to have a sizable number of criminals no matter what you do about it.

As for the death penalty, I would argue that killing is an evil act. So if the justice system kills a killer, they are not getting rid of the evil in the world; they are simply taking it into themselves, and perpetuating it themselves, and perhaps worse, they are legitimizing evil. They are saying that killing is OK, when the right people do it. It isn't far from that to a person saying to himself, "Well, I'm the right person, too, because I know THAT guy deserves to die. So I'll kill him myself, just like the US government, and reduce the amount of evil in the world." Doesn't work that way.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Why is the criminal rate in america so high even though you have so brutal punishments,( one example death penalty)?

Brutal punishments aren't effective. They never have been.

The biggest reason "our crime rate is so high"-- which, really, it isn't-- is that we do not catch or convict criminals often enough. You can commit dozens of crimes before the police even begin to investigate you, and there's a big jump between investigation and arrest, and arrest and conviction.

People commit crime because they figure they can get away with it.

I partly think that death penalty should be legalized. But only if the person commiting the crime has murdered.

You know, there's different kinds of murders... and there are some crimes I would easily consider worse than some kinds of murder. I don't think every murder should be a capital crime-- but there are several other offenses I think ought to receive the death penalty.

As for the death penalty, I would argue that killing is an evil act.

Ain't no kind of living thing that doesn't live solely because of the suffering and death of other living things. Even vegetarians got to kill their salads before they eat them.

You might say that killing another human-- killing a member of our own species-- is different somehow, that it's wrong... but every species of animal does that, too. As a matter of fact, the more like us a species is genetically, structurally, or even psychologically, the better it is at committing murder against its own kind.

They are saying that killing is OK, when the right people do it. It isn't far from that to a person saying to himself, "Well, I'm the right person, too, because I know THAT guy deserves to die..."

Leaving aside the issue of whether or not homicide is categorically wrong... what's wrong with this? If it is, indeed, morally acceptable for the State to kill people in the guise of justice-- as people who support the death penalty maintain-- then why isn't it morally acceptable for individuals to do so?

I may not wear a black robe in public, but I am no less morally aware than most of the judges I've met. Might even go as far as to say that I'm moreso than most of them. And aren't juries selected specifically to be a cross-section of average American society?

 

[Monk-Eye]

Beyond Reasonable Preponderance

"Beyond Reasonable Preponderance"

Brutal punishments aren't effective. They never have been.
Leaving aside the issue of whether or not homicide is categorically wrong... what's wrong with this? If it is, indeed, morally acceptable for the State to kill people in the guise of justice-- as people who support the death penalty maintain-- then why isn't it morally acceptable for individuals to do so?
And aren't juries selected specifically to be a cross-section of average American society?

Brutal punishment is not a deterent, it is action to satisfy the deprivation of the victims, where recompense is gratuitous.

There are no a priori rights, only an interest in survival. The State is an institution of order, law, which establishes rights with an interest in ensuring the survival of society and its members. When a member acts contrary to the law, justice is decided with an idea of balance. When rights are removed through due process, one is subject to no a priori rights, and succumbs to fate.

Lawyers forego judges who act with prejudice in the interest of coffers and state policy.
Juries are suffer from laity and are typically not qualified to implement justice.

 

[rhinefire]

like they did in the days of Jesse James there is still some tag on people that commit crimes here that allow pity for them to be entered in to the calculation. That pity can come in the form of emotional state of mind claims, circumstances etc. Some folks still see the police as the bad guys. It is never cut and dry.

 

[Cephus]

Before I begin, I want to ask a question, and I will be very thankful if someone replied me an answer. Why is the criminal rate in america so high even though you have so brutal punishments,( one example death penalty)?

For one thing, we hardly have the death penalty at all, you stand a better chance of dying of old age in prison than you do of actually getting put to death.

 

[rhinefire]

The criminal rate is so high because they know they will be treated as house gets if they do go to jail demanding better food, color televisons, recreation, clothing changes, new shoes every few months, libraries, movie theaters, plays, visits from their mates etc. Prison is a better life for some than they had as civilians.

 

[Cephus]

Agreed. While I don't know if that applies to death row necessarily but a lot of criminals commit crimes because life behind bars is much better for them than it would be on the outside. They want to be incarcerated because they get three meals a day, a warm bed to sleep on, cable TV and they don't have to work for it.

That's why I think we need to rethink our prison system, it should be a very nasty place to spend time, something to be avoided at all costs.

 

[drb14]

rhinefire wrote, "The criminal rate is so high because they know they will be treated as house gets if they do go to jail demanding better food, color televisons, recreation, clothing changes, new shoes every few months, libraries, movie theaters, plays, visits from their mates etc. Prison is a better life for some than they had as civilians."


Anything to support that assertion other than your personal opinion?




Korimyr the Rat wrote, "And aren't juries selected specifically to be a cross-section of average American society?"

No, they are not. Especially in cases where the prosecution is seeking the death penalty.

First, at least in my state, jurors are selected on the county level according to voter registration lists. This is hardly inclusive of all of society.

Second, each side in a case can challenge jurors for cause and have a certain number of peremptory challenges that can but used for (in theory, any non-racially motivated) reason. Any good attorney will seek to choose the jurors that are least unacceptable to him or her, not to ensure an accurate representation of society. And although there are efforts being made to improve the quality of counsel in death penalty cases, I've seen bad attorneys defending death penalty defendants.

Third, at least in my state, a jury in a death penalty case must be "death qualified." That means, generally, that the jurors must not be predisposed to sentence a person to life rather than death. Such a lack of predisposition is hardly representitive of society. I do not have the stats on hand, but it has been shown that such a jury is more likely to convict a person than a non-"death qualified" jury.

 

[Jray]

Agreed. While I don't know if that applies to death row necessarily but a lot of criminals commit crimes because life behind bars is much better for them than it would be on the outside. They want to be incarcerated because they get three meals a day, a warm bed to sleep on, cable TV and they don't have to work for it.

That's why I think we need to rethink our prison system, it should be a very nasty place to spend time, something to be avoided at all costs.

BS. You completely made that up. Have you ever gone to prison?

Korimyr the Rat wrote, "And aren't juries selected specifically to be a cross-section of average American society?"

No, they are not. Especially in cases where the prosecution is seeking the death penalty.

Exactly, that why things like jury packing are an issue.

Before I begin, I want to ask a question, and I will be very thankful if someone replied me an answer. Why is the criminal rate in america so high even though you have so brutal punishments,( one example death penalty)?

The crime rate is high because of poverrty, a racist judicial system, and a punitive prison system instead of a reformitory one.

 

[Cephus]

BS. You completely made that up. Have you ever gone to prison?

Nope, but I'm not a criminal therefore I have no place being in prison. But if you do any research into repeat offenders, you find that a lot of them purposely want to go back to prison for exactly the reasons I listed.

Exactly, that why things like jury packing are an issue.

Apparently it's why paranoia seems to be an issue as well.

The crime rate is high because of poverrty, a racist judicial system, and a punitive prison system instead of a reformitory one.

The crime rate is also high because of the unfortunate liberal slide this country has taken over the last 40 years where no one has any responsibility for their actions, you can always blame someone else, just like you're doing.

No thanks, I don't buy it. Liberalism has ****ed up this country enough already.

 

[Jray]

Nope, but I'm not a criminal therefore I have no place being in prison. But if you do any research into repeat offenders, you find that a lot of them purposely want to go back to prison for exactly the reasons I listed.

Show me the research

Apparently it's why paranoia seems to be an issue as well.

Yea that and racism are huge issues thats why Mumia is in jail waiting to see what will happen.

The crime rate is also high because of the unfortunate liberal slide this country has taken over the last 40 years where no one has any responsibility for their actions, you can always blame someone else, just like you're doing.

No thanks, I don't buy it. Liberalism has ****ed up this country enough already.

Yea the liberal side is to attmpt to fix the cause of the problem instead of just taking care of the effect. If theres a leak in the roof you fix it you dont just continue to catch the water.

And Conservitism has killed and screwed over 1 billion plus people already so i dont buy it.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

I think that hanging the bad guys in the middle of town where every one can see it was the BEST solution and deterant ever.
Why should we end up paying Millions of $$$ for their trials and their 50 year stays?
The rope can be used many many times and that will save us taxpayers a lot of $$$.

 

[Rick]

I just want to say this is the single political issue that I have never been able to resolve an opinion on, because the truth is there are good arguments on both sides. I tend to lean against.

 

[rhinefire]

Drugs, drugs, drugs, the break down of the family, poverty and illegal aliens.

 

[Jray]

tell me how illegal immigrants cause crime or is it just xenophobia?

 

[rhinefire]

tell me how illegal immigrants cause crime or is it just xenophobia?

What typically happens when real poor people are mixed in with people that have cash?

 

[Jray]

What typically happens when real poor people are mixed in with people that have cash?

Crime but the crime dosent occur because their illegal aliens, its because their poor, so the problem is poverty.

 

[rhinefire]

Crime but the crime dosent occur because their illegal aliens, its because their poor, so the problem is poverty.

It's like the tree falling in the forest with no one there to witness. The illegals, that's i-l-l-e-g-a-l-s are HERE breaking OUR laws instead of MEXICO breaking THEIR laws. The solution: Send them back.

 

[Bell30656]

There is still one statistic that can't be argued with... Not a single person put to death by the state committed any more crimes.

 

[Jray]

It's like the tree falling in the forest with no one there to witness. The illegals, that's i-l-l-e-g-a-l-s are HERE breaking OUR laws instead of MEXICO breaking THEIR laws. The solution: Send them back.

Isnt america called the land of oppurtunity? You send them back you end solve a small cause of the problem, you end poverty you solve the biggest part of the problem.

 

[rhinefire]

That about sums it up boys and girls.

 

[uNdeRdOg]

Isnt america called the land of oppurtunity? You send them back you end solve a small cause of the problem, you end poverty you solve the biggest part of the problem.

No you send back the criminals and they can't commit crimes in your country any more.

 

[jamesrage]

Before I begin, I want to ask a question, and I will be very thankful if someone replied me an answer. Why is the criminal rate in america so high even though you have so brutal punishments,( one example death penalty)?

It's kind of hard for something such as the death penalty to be a deterrent when it takes 10-20 years to execute someone.California for example has executed 13 people since 1976 and has 660 inmates on death row.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=186

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=9&did=188

 

[Jray]

No you send back the criminals and they can't commit crimes in your country any more.

But you will send them back because their illegals but only if the commit crimes? In that case we should remove all criminals.