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Is It Now Time for Media Outlets to Call This a “coup"?

TheDemSocialist

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BRAZIL TODAY AWOKE to stunning news of secret, genuinely shocking conversations involving a key minister in Brazil’s newly installed government, which shine a bright light on the actual motives and participants driving the impeachment of the country’s democratically elected president, Dilma Rousseff. The transcripts were published by the country’s largest newspaper, Folha de São Paulo, and reveal secret conversations that took place in March, just weeks before the impeachment vote in the lower house was held. They show explicit plotting between the new planning minister (then-senator), Romero Jucá, and former oil executive Sergio Machado — both of whom are formal targets of the “Car Wash” corruption investigation — as they agree that removing Dilma is the only means for ending the corruption investigation. The conversations also include discussions of the important role played in Dilma’s removal by the most powerful national institutions, including — most importantly — Brazil’s military leaders.

The transcripts contain two extraordinary revelations that should lead all media outlets to seriously consider whether they should call what took place in Brazil a “coup”: a term Dilma and her supporters have used for months. When discussing the plot to remove Dilma as a means of ending the Car Wash investigation, Jucá said the Brazilian military is supporting the plot: “I am talking to the generals, the military commanders. They are fine with this, they said they will guarantee it.” He also said the military is “monitoring the Landless Workers Movement” (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra, or MST), the social movement of rural workers that supports PT’s efforts of land reform and inequality reduction and has led the protests against impeachment.

The second blockbuster revelation — perhaps even more significant — is Jucá’s statement that he spoke with and secured the involvement of numerous justices on Brazil’s Supreme Court, the institution that impeachment defenders have repeatedly pointed to as vesting the process with legitimacy in order to deny that Dilma’s removal is a coup. Jucá claimed that “there are only a small number” of Court justices to whom he had not obtained access (the only justice he said he ultimately could not get to is Teori Zavascki, who was appointed by Dilma and who — notably — Jucá viewed as incorruptible in obtaining his help to kill the investigation (a central irony of impeachment is that Dilma has protected the Car Wash investigation from interference by those who want to impeach her)). The transcripts also show him saying that “the press wants to take her [Dilma] out,” so “this **** will never stop” — meaning the corruption investigations — until she’s gone.


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New Political Earthquake in Brazil: Is It Now Time for Media Outlets to Call This a “Coup”?




Its now time to label this what is undergoing in Brazil. This is a coup against the democratically elected government lead by Dilma Rouseff. They used the guise as a "war against corruption" to unseat her. But in fact Rouseff was the one leading anti-corruption investigations, like the one into what is labeled as "the car wash scandal". Those who were being investigated then lead an impeachment process with the backing of the military and then also the supreme court and the press. Its time to label this what it clearly is, a coup.
 

Carjosse

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It is taking down a very corrupt government, they tried to take on the Brazilian justice system, and lost. Do you know whatever country has an "anti-corruption" campaign? China.
 

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That's the beautiful thing about corruption. Everyone gets to play their part.

As communities cede power to the state and the states cede power to a national government and national governments cede power to world governments the fungus of corruption becomes more and more virulent. Our founding fathers knew this and established a Constitution which had the goal of restraining such corruption but, alas, people tend to be lazy and this is the way things go.
 

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"The transcripts provide proof for virtually every suspicion and accusation impeachment opponents have long expressed about those plotting to remove Dilma from office. For months, supporters of Brazil’s democracy have made two arguments about the attempt to remove the country’s democratically elected president: (1) the core purpose of Dilma’s impeachment is not to stop corruption or punish lawbreaking, but rather the exact opposite: to protect the actual thieves by empowering them with Dilma’s exit, thus enabling them to kill the Car Wash investigation; and (2) the impeachment advocates (led by the country’s oligarchical media) have zero interest in clean government, but only in seizing power that they could never obtain democratically, in order to impose a right-wing, oligarch-serving agenda that the Brazilian population would never accept."
 

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Brazil has a history of corruption that goes back to the 1820's. It has never changed. The same old families control the country no matter what label you give to it's current form of government.
 

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New Political Earthquake in Brazil: Is It Now Time for Media Outlets to Call This a “Coup”?




Its now time to label this what is undergoing in Brazil. This is a coup against the democratically elected government lead by Dilma Rouseff. They used the guise as a "war against corruption" to unseat her. But in fact Rouseff was the one leading anti-corruption investigations, like the one into what is labeled as "the car wash scandal". Those who were being investigated then lead an impeachment process with the backing of the military and then also the supreme court and the press. Its time to label this what it clearly is, a coup.

I knew it was the second I saw the NYT article on my phone (I clarify this, because if my Android phone didn't automatically send me MSM articles, I wouldn't ever read them). But I read that article, and I knew I was being fed a can of bull****. As soon as I reached statements of the form (paraphrasing) "The new president has ties to oil industries," "the investors will now be paid back and Brazil will not default, which will be good for their economy" (LMFAO), and "the former Leftist president" you pretty much could call BS on the entire thing and I knew it was a coup.

Yay, capitalism!
 

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Brazil has a history of corruption that goes back to the 1820's. It has never changed. The same old families control the country no matter what label you give to it's current form of government.

Unlike the US. We're very enlightened, we allow in new families from time to time.
 

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Maybe I need to do some more research, but the last I saw, there was a long debated peaceful vote by the government to impeach - that's not a coup.
 

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The constitution limits the damage these USA families can do before they get put in their place.

That's interesting, because they seem to have trashed the economy, gutted all of the living-wage jobs, continue to take all of the new wealth the country has generated, destroyed all of the labor unions and continue to assail labor laws, continue to wildly skew the election process for their candidates, and continue to write more laws in their financial interests and those that further their hegemony. And the Constitution didn't seem stop them during any of this.
 

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That's interesting, because they seem to have trashed the economy, gutted all of the living-wage jobs, continue to take all of the new wealth the country has generated, destroyed all of the labor unions and continue to assail labor laws, continue to wildly skew the election process for their candidates, and continue to write more laws in their financial interests and those that further their hegemony. And the Constitution didn't seem stop them during any of this.

The mix of capitalism and a Democratic republic can be slow at times. But the bad get weeded out sooner or later.

There is a huge difference between Brazil and the USA.

As far as labor unions go........... everyone has assholes............everyone has opinions.

While you are bitching about the rich, why don't you go out and chase your own money.
 

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While you are bitching about the rich, why don't you go out and chase your own money.

Speaking for Millennials in general: Because they took all of money. They rigged the rules so they could keep it, they strapped all Millennials down with loads of college debt right before they nuked the economy. They told Millennials the only way they could get a job was if they went to college, created a college bubble --and before that burst, they nuked the economy with the housing bubble. You can't take risks when you have debt, and you can't create start-ups, etc, because people won't loan money to people. And you can't go bankrupt on college debt, even when they destroyed the economy; businesses can, Donald Trump did (4 times), but college grads cannot. They got bailed out for their ****ty decisions --Millennals and the home owners didn't, only they didn't have billionaire advisors helping them with their decisions and they had no way of knowing what was coming. (And the ones who were complicit in nuking our economy? They never went to jail; they just got smaller bonuses or had to pay paltry fines.)

With that said, I'm still working towards further my education and job prospects. But the entire deck is stacked against Millennials in a way that hasn't ever affected any generation like this since the Greatest Generation and the Depression. Asking them why they can't just magick money out of the air when they are loaded up with debt and the economy is garbage just demonstrates that you don't know what it's like to be a relatively new worker in the current rigged economy. And no, Millennials aren't going to apologize for correctly blaming the entities/persons who're responsible.
 

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Speaking for Millennials in general: Because they took all of money. They rigged the rules so they could keep it, they strapped all Millennials down with loads of college debt right before they nuked the economy. They told Millennials the only way they could get a job was if they went to college, created a college bubble --and before that burst, they nuked the economy with the housing bubble. You can't take risks when you have debt, and you can't create start-ups, etc, because people won't loan money to people. And you can't go bankrupt on college debt, even when they destroyed the economy; businesses can, Donald Trump did (4 times), but college grads cannot. They got bailed out for their ****ty decisions --Millennals and the home owners didn't, only they didn't have billionaire advisors helping them with their decisions and they had no way of knowing what was coming. (And the ones who were complicit in nuking our economy? They never went to jail; they just got smaller bonuses or had to pay paltry fines.)

With that said, I'm still working towards further my education and job prospects. But the entire deck is stacked against Millennials in a way that hasn't ever affected any generation like this since the Greatest Generation and the Depression. Asking them why they can't just magick money out of the air when they are loaded up with debt and the economy is garbage just demonstrates that you don't know what it's like to be a relatively new worker in the current rigged economy. And no, Millennials aren't going to apologize for correctly blaming the entities/persons who're responsible.

OMG...you just wrote the most panty waste flowery excuse that I ever seen. I taught a kid how to build a privacy fence some years ago and he now owns runs one of the areas biggest fence companies. He never finished high school and worked for me as a day laborer. He now employs 16-18 people along with his older brother who has a baccalaureates degree.................... as his bean counter.

He accomplished this with desire to get ahead, and the little knowledge that I passed onto him.

You can pass blame all day long if it makes you feel better, but the truth is...................there is a buck around every corner.
 

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OMG...you just wrote the most panty waste flowery excuse that I ever seen.

Oh, golly gee willigers, sir, I hope being a splint-wristed nancy didn't offend you too much!

I taught a kid how to build a privacy fence some years ago and he now owns runs one of the areas biggest fence companies.

Good for him. Did I say that no one could possibly succeed in the modern economy? Nope.

He never finished high school and worked for me as a day laborer. He now employs 16-18 people along with his older brother who has a baccalaureates degree.................... as his bean counter.

So in other words, "No, he didn't have college debt, so he was free to start his own business without having to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars in debt a month." I believe I made that point.

He accomplished this with desire to get ahead, and the little knowledge that I passed onto him.

So far you have one anecdote. How many people have you mentored? How many of those have succeeded? How many people tried businesses during the same period as your friend and succeeded?

You can pass blame all day long if it makes you feel better, but the truth is...................there is a buck around every corner.

Get back to me after you tell me the success rate of all businesses in your local area, and tell me what kind of jobs exist.

No one is saying "You cannot do X." They're saying, "Given the system that we have, your likelihood of success goes way down." Also, not everyone wants to create a business. In fact, that's most people. And those people are crucial to your friends business. Also, most people don't have a senior, knowledgeable mentor who hands them a business model, let alone a successful business model.
 

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Oh, golly gee willigers, sir, I hope being splint-wristed nancy didn't offend you too much!



Good for him. Did I say that no one could possibly succeed in the modern economy? Nope.



So in other words, "No, he didn't have college debt, so he was free to start his own business without having to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars in debt a month." I believe I made that point.



So far you have one anecdote. How many people have you mentored? How many of those have succeeded? How many people tried businesses during the same period as your friend and succeeded?



Get back to me after you tell me the success rate of all businesses in your local area, and tell me what kind of jobs exist.

No one is saying "You cannot do X." They're saying, "Given the system that we have, your likelihood of success goes way down." Also, not everyone wants to create a business. In fact, that's most people. Also, most people don't have a senior, knowledgeable mentor who hands them a business model, let alone a successful business model.


Another socialist attitude if I ever saw one.

Nobody on this earth owes you a damn thing.

Just because some young person decides to go in debt for a continued education, doesn't mean that society owes him/her a job. Where did you get that crap from?

Keep pointing fingers all you like....all day long even.

But, you make your own way in this world................ or you can sit behind a keyboard whining about how unfair it all is.
 

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OMG...you just wrote the most panty waste flowery excuse that I ever seen. I taught a kid how to build a privacy fence some years ago and he now owns runs one of the areas biggest fence companies. He never finished high school and worked for me as a day laborer. He now employs 16-18 people along with his older brother who has a baccalaureates degree.................... as his bean counter.

He accomplished this with desire to get ahead, and the little knowledge that I passed onto him.

You can pass blame all day long if it makes you feel better, but the truth is...................there is a buck around every corner.
I've just got to comment on fence builders, without getting involved in the larger discussion.

I'm blown away by some of guys I've seen make a killing in fences, over my lifetime! Including the guy that maintains mine! 15 years ago he was a day laborer too, and today he's got buildings & storage sheds on a couple acres of some pretty desirable land, along with an office staffed by several full-time family members, several full-time estimators that work from 7A through the evening, and God only knows how many laborers because the last estimator that came out claimed he does 15 calls a day, and most result in executed contracts! (granted, it was the spring 'busy' season)

And his is only one story of several I know, though he's the most successful.

Fence building is just one of those things that isn't often on the forefront of our minds when we think career or business, but for several guys I know that fell into it - they really found a damn good thing!

I also know a guy (my landscaper) that was grass-cutting at 10 years old, and by 14 had expanded it to a little neighborhood full-service landscaping business. He built a cart that he could fill with his tools & materials, and pulled it on the back of his bike, along with having a couple buddies he paid cash to help him! I'm dead serious, here! Today at 26, he has 3 trucks with each truck having their own crew. He has so much business, he only works with his regular customers for the most part (just like how he started on his bicycle!). He bought a house for cash 3 or 4 years ago at the height of the housing crisis; I suspect he got a killer deal on it, and let's face it: The name of the game in business has always been to 'buy low' (and sell high).

But I will say this: Recently he expressed remorse about not getting an education like his friends (the neighborhood is an upscale 'everyone goes out-of-state to college right out of high school' kind of place). And he expressed his remorse, even though he knows he's doing extremely well financially. And of course, some of his university educated friends are envious of his business and mortgage-free house. So go figure! :doh
 

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I've just got to comment on fence builders, without getting involved in the larger discussion.

I'm blown away by some of guys I've seen make a killing in fences, over my lifetime! Including the guy that maintains mine! 15 years ago he was a day laborer too, and today he's got buildings & storage sheds on a couple acres of some pretty desirable land, along with an office staffed by several full-time family members, several full-time estimators that work from 7A through the evening, and God only knows how many laborers because the last estimator that came out claimed he does 15 calls a day, and most result in executed contracts! (granted, it was the spring 'busy' season)

And his is only one story of several I know, though he's the most successful.

Fence building is just one of those things that isn't often on the forefront of our minds when we think career or business, but for several guys I know that fell into it - they really found a damn good thing!

I also know a guy (my landscaper) that was grass-cutting at 10 years old, and by 14 had expanded it to a little neighborhood full-service landscaping business. He built a cart that he could fill with his tools & materials, and pulled it on the back of his bike, along with having a couple buddies he paid cash to help him! I'm dead serious, here! Today at 26, he has 3 trucks with each truck having their own crew. He has so much business, he only works with his regular customers for the most part (just like how he started on his bicycle!). He bought a house for cash 3 or 4 years ago at the height of the housing crisis; I suspect he got a killer deal on it, and let's face it: The name of the game in business has always been to 'buy low' (and sell high).

But I will say this: Recently he expressed remorse about not getting an education like his friends (the neighborhood is an upscale 'everyone goes out-of-state to college right out of high school' kind of place). And he expressed his remorse, even though he knows he's doing extremely well financially. And of course, some of his university educated friends are envious of his business and mortgage-free house. So go figure! :doh

I am in the same boat. I feel pretty backwards during some of the discussions that I get involved with regarding properties, repairs, and negotiations on costs/bids. Dealing with brokers and management companies is a whole different world for me. But, they also rely on and appreciate my no nonsense approach, cost effectiveness, time management, and promise of delivery. I always get the house to closing, and on time when a buyer makes things difficult.

They keep hounding me to get back into the game, and I might fairly soon. I was hoping my son would go after his Virginia Class A or B contractors license so I could get him started. But, he seems happy doing his own free lance drywall thing for now and I can't blame him.

We rely on each other regardless of our educational backgrounds.
 

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New Political Earthquake in Brazil: Is It Now Time for Media Outlets to Call This a “Coup”?




Its now time to label this what is undergoing in Brazil. This is a coup against the democratically elected government lead by Dilma Rouseff. They used the guise as a "war against corruption" to unseat her. But in fact Rouseff was the one leading anti-corruption investigations, like the one into what is labeled as "the car wash scandal". Those who were being investigated then lead an impeachment process with the backing of the military and then also the supreme court and the press. Its time to label this what it clearly is, a coup.


I have a label: Relief. While I agree that Dilma is being impeached on a technicality, the people are tired of the excrement sandwich they are being forced to eat by the left. Don't you get it, man? The economy in Brazil has deteriorated into a 1930s-style depression. People are tired. They are tired of seemingly everyone in sight getting a free ride from rich politicians that loot the treasury to the able-bodied collecting "bolsa familia". The theme of the anti-Dilma protests are "acobou a boquinha" (the nursing is over). Many Brazilians have finally decides it's time to be adults. You are apparently also opposed to Venezuelans throwing their excrement sandwich back at Maduro. Do you hate Latin Americans that much?

I have seen the Socialist mentality with my own eyes. My father-in-law had about a hectare of his 4 hectare lot taken over by squatters. The Socialist government's response: Don't you think you're being too greedy to think 3 hectares isn't enough land for you?
 
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TheDemSocialist

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I have a label: Relief. While I agree that Dilma is being impeached on a technicality, the people are tired of the excrement sandwich they are being forced to eat by the left. Don't you get it, man? The economy in Brazil has deteriorated into a 1930s-style depression. People are tired. They are tired of seemingly everyone in sight getting a free ride from rich politicians that loot the treasury to the able-bodied collecting "bolsa familia". The theme of the anti-Dilma protests are "acobou a boquinha" (the nursing is over). Many Brazilians have finally decides it's time to be adults. You are apparently also opposed to Venezuelans throwing their excrement sandwich back at Maduro. Do you hate Latin Americans that much?

So throw the people off who are finally putting those who are corrupt on trial and replace those who are being investigated in power?
 

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So throw the people off who are finally putting those who are corrupt on trial and replace those who are being investigated in power?

You've gotta start somewhere. Likely 70 to 80 % of Federal elected officials are corrupt. Corruption runs so deep in Brazilian culture, but it seems that people are beginning see to where it leads. Very few have clean hands. Look up the expression "jeitinho Brasileiro". Below is one link:

The Brazilian way of doing things - The Brazil Business

Here is an article about Brazil this month, I never thought I would see in my lifetime:

Corruption is Not Cultural: The Jeitinho Brasileiro in Decline - The FCPA Blog - The FCPA Blog

But no more. The anti-corruption revolution now occurring in Brazil is best understood as the new generation’s revolt against the perceived necessity of jeitinho. The law will no longer look the other way. Armed with new legal tools, enforcement officials have ushered in a new era in Brazilian government, founded on a new set of cultural assumptions. And our research found that for the Brazilians, the new regime comes not a day too soon. They may have tolerated corruption, and learned how to use it to get ahead. But they never liked it. - See more at: Corruption is Not Cultural: The Jeitinho Brasileiro in Decline - The FCPA Blog - The FCPA Blog
 
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TheDemSocialist

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You've gotta start somewhere. Likely 70 to 80 % of Federal elected officials are corrupt. Corruption runs so deep in Brazilian culture, but it seems that people are beginning see to where it leads. Very few have clean hands. Look up the expression "jeitinho Brasileiro". Below is one link:

The Brazilian way of doing things - The Brazil Business

Here is an article about Brazil this month, I never thought I would see in my lifetime:

Corruption is Not Cultural: The Jeitinho Brasileiro in*Decline - The FCPA Blog - The FCPA Blog

I feel like this doesnt validate the point I still presented so I will answer it again: "So throw the people off who are finally putting those who are corrupt on trial and replace those who are being investigated in power?"
 

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I feel like this doesnt validate the point I still presented so I will answer it again: "So throw the people off who are finally putting those who are corrupt on trial and replace those who are being investigated in power?"

A Socialist government trying to cement it's own power doesn't constitute cracking down on corruption. Dilma was ready to "fight to the end" while Temer realizes he's governing on borrowed time. He acts like he is trying to clean up his act.
 

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Another socialist attitude if I ever saw one.

What defines a "socialist attitude"? Trying to create a society that attempts to keep all of it's members productive and continuing to make the country stronger? Yeah, guilty as charged. Or did you just want a cheap, thoughtless quip?

I suspect it's probably the latter.

Nobody on this earth owes you a damn thing.

1.) Really? Do you have rights? Did you get an education? Do you use roads? Are you or do you plan on using social security? Yes, RetiredUSN, society does owe you something, it's not necessarily a job, but it does owe you an opportunity. Humans being are social animals that created civilizations because they are (or should be) mutually advantageous to everyone involved. If people manipulate that system, harm others in the process, then that should be spoken of and discussed openly --and the fact that you know one kid who owns one company neither supports or damages my statements about the economy at large.

2.) That's a massive strawman, and I didn't say that. Again, it's easier for you to don you "Oh the lazy kids these days" hat, rather than actually address what was forward to you in an intellectually honest way. So let's reiterate: I didn't say anyone was "owed" a specific job --but a job in general? Yes, if we have a functional society, there should be jobs so most of the members of the society can be productive. If there aren't jobs, we're being very poor stewards of our civilization and negating the whole point in being a civilization.

3.) Despite your glib comments, I'm currently gainfully employed. As far as Millennials go, I'm relatively well off (emphasis on relatively), but it's not like I'm doing spectacularly. I can't not worry about my future because everyone in my generation has to worry constantly about the next economic collapse or companies falling apart or jobs not being around in six months. So even though I'm somewhat lucky, that doesn't mean that I don't understand how badly the US' fiscal/taxation, financial, and economic (including trade deals) are screwing over working-class Americans, that this precludes me from understanding that this is prolonging the recession (and damaging my own economic interests), and I'm not delusional or misinformed enough to think that telling a few young men how to build fences is going to change the entire systemic problem, or naive/myopic enough to think one kid building up a small company of is indicative of the entire economy and the average experience/reality of most people under the age of 45. Because whether you want to square that away or not, a majority of them are solidly ****ed, and a little speech about pulling yourself up from your bootstraps does nothing at all to change that reality.

Just because some young person decides to go in debt for a continued education, doesn't mean that society owes him/her a job. Where did you get that crap from?

1.) Again, you confuse "should be able to find or create some job," which is what I'm saying, with "is owed a specific job at this company," which is the strawman statement you're making. That's transparently disingenuous.

2.) If you don't understand how you as a worker relate to the economy that you work in and how that can be manipulated by the very wealthy and powerful, then you need to educate yourself (at a bare minimum, read some articles on IncomeInequality.org). Or if you don't want to education yourself, then one must wonder why you're bothering to state your opinion.



Either way, this is veered way off topic. If you want to bloviate some more about why everyone should be pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, I would encourage you to make a new thread, otherwise go ahead and take the last word.
 

SDET

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What defines a "socialist attitude"? Trying to create a society that attempts to keep all of it's members productive and continuing to make the country stronger? Yeah, guilty as charged. Or did you just want a cheap, thoughtless quip?

I don't have much time right now, so I will put it this way: Socialist attitude means an authoritarian monopoly. Look no further than Venezuela. Maduro is determined to push the "socialist vision" irrespective of how deep the suffering of his subjects. Have you ever noticed how socialism and scarcity go together like bread and butter?
 

TheDemSocialist

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A Socialist government trying to cement it's own power doesn't constitute cracking down on corruption. Dilma was ready to "fight to the end" while Temer realizes he's governing on borrowed time. He acts like he is trying to clean up his act.
You see. The thing is, Rousseff's government was actively investigating the corruption scandal. Even those involved in the corruption scandal admitted this, see the OP link for evidence.
 
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