Is It A Lie To Say You Support The Troops But Not Their Mission?

[26 X World Champs]

I'm very tired or reading posts in this Forum that claim:

IT IS A LIE TO SAY YOU SUPPORT THE TROOPS BUT NOT THEIR MISSION​

Therefore a very simple poll question:

IS IT A LIE TO SAY YOU SUPPORT THE TROOPS BUT NOT THEIR MISSION?​

Yes or No and Why?

 

[CurrentAffairs]

I voted yes, but the polls in this forum are pointless because the sample is too few. It will not be scientific or representative of our country.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I voted yes, but the polls in this forum are pointless because the sample is too few. It will not be scientific or representative of our country.

The polls her are not meant to be scientific only informative.

Why did you vote YES? 62% of Americans say the war is a mistake and we should never have gone...does that mean that 186 million Americans hate our troops?

 

[CurrentAffairs]

The polls her are not meant to be scientific only informative.

Why did you vote YES? 62% of Americans say the war is a mistake and we should never have gone...does that mean that 186 million Americans hate our troops?

How cute. So is it your contention that 300 million Americans were polled? 62% of those surveyed is not the same as 62% of the entire population, Einstein. Do you know how many were polled?

Furthermore if you didn't want anyone to vote yes, then why did you give it as an option? Obviously I voted yes because it is what I believe.

 

[26 X World Champs]

How cute. So is it your contention that 300 million Americans were polled? 62% of those surveyed is not the same as 62% of the entire population, Einstein. Do you know how many were polled?

Furthermore if you didn't want anyone to vote yes, then why did you give it as an option? Obviously I voted yes because it is what I believe.

Thank you for calling me Einstein, the name fits quite well :2wave:

So you actually believe that if you're against the war in Iraq that means that you hate our military? Is that for real?

So the Republican Senator from Oregon who just last week said he no longer supports war hates our troops? Caine, who is in the military, hates our troops? Sen. Hagel from Nebraska also hates our troops as well as every Democrat who has come out against the war? That is what you actually and really believe is truth?

WOW! You're like Navy Pride Mini Me!

 

[CurrentAffairs]

Thank you for calling me Einstein, the name fits quite well :2wave:

So you actually believe that if you're against the war in Iraq that means that you hate our military? Is that for real?

So the Republican Senator from Oregon who just last week said he no longer supports war hates our troops? Caine, who is in the military, hates our troops? Sen. Hagel from Nebraska also hates our troops as well as every Democrat who has come out against the war? That is what you actually and really believe is truth?

WOW! You're like Navy Pride Mini Me!

You're spinning yourself right off of the topic. How did you make this grand leap from 'support for our troops' to 'hate our troops'? Your poll doesn't say anything about hating our troops, and yet this is what you're trying to do to the discussion. You're impossible.

Are you going to answer the question? Do you think 168 million people were surveyed?

 

[Skip]

What's your definition of "supporting the troops", CurrentAffairs?

 

[Hatuey]

What's your definition of "supporting the troops", CurrentAffairs?

Follow anything Bush says blindly.

 

[Navy Pride]

It is impossible to support the troops and not support what they are trying to accomplish..............It makes no sense at all.......

Its like saying I supported "Lurch" Kerry but I voted for Bush........

Only a Liberal or a lefty would say that you can support one but not the other............

 

[Navy Pride]

Follow anything Bush says blindly.

It has nothing to do with it...........Its about finishing the job we started in Iraq and not cutting and running when the going gets tough just becaue you hate President Bush........

Thank God you Liberals were not in charge when the Japanese attacked Pearl harbor and things were not going well........You would have probably wanted to cut and run then too.........:roll:

 

[rathi]

It is impossible to support the troops and not support what they are trying to accomplish..............It makes no sense at all.......

Its like saying I supported "Lurch" Kerry but I voted for Bush........

Only a Liberal or a lefty would say that you can support one but not the other...........

Sure you can. My goal is to support Americans troops by keeping them alive. The war in Iraq kills American troops. Therefore I do not support the war.
Also, I tangibly support our troops by fighting corruption in the defense industry, designing new weapons systems and working to send extra gear to them overseas. And believe me, troops like good body armor a lot more than "support our troops" stickers.

 

[rathi]

It has nothing to do with it...........Its about finishing the job we started in Iraq and not cutting and running when the going gets tough just becaue you hate President Bush........

We can't "finish the job." "cutting and running" is a sometimes the practical choice when victory is not in the cards.

Thank God you Liberals were not in charge when the Japanese attacked Pearl harbor and things were not going well........You would have probably wanted to cut and run then too.........

FDR wasn't liberal? He invented the American Welfare system. And comparing the Japanese invasion of pearl harbor to our unprovoked offensive invasion of Iraq is rather weak.

 

[Navy Pride]

Sure you can. My goal is to support Americans troops by keeping them alive. The war in Iraq kills American troops. Therefore I do not support the war.
Also, I tangibly support our troops by fighting corruption in the defense industry, designing new weapons systems and working to send extra gear to them overseas. And believe me, troops like good body armor a lot more than "support our troops" stickers.

I grieve for every lost life in Iraq.........I lost 6 good friends in Nam.....I go to that wall every year in Washington and grieve for them.....We cut and run there and 58,000 men and millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians died for nothing........The troops in Iraq want to finish the job there.........

You are young.................you might understand in time that sadly men die in wars........

 

[Navy Pride]

We can't "finish the job." "cutting and running" is a sometimes the practical choice when victory is not in the cards.



FDR wasn't liberal? He invented the American Welfare system. And comparing the Japanese invasion of pearl harbor to our unprovoked offensive invasion of Iraq is rather weak.

When FDR was prez the term liberal wasn't even coined.......

 

[Befuddled_Stoner]

Hold on, let me go check….

*grabs pay stub, notices the taxes taken out*

Yep, it looks like I am supporting the troops. Aside from blathering vacuous talking points that are tantamount to agreeing with Bush’s bungling, is there anything else you think I should be doing?

 

[Hatuey]

When FDR was prez the term liberal wasn't even coined.......

The American War of Independence established the first nation to craft a constitution based on the concept of liberal government, especially the idea that governments rule by the consent of the governed. The more moderate bourgeois elements of the French Revolution tried to establish a government based on liberal principles. Economists such as Adam Smith, in The Wealth of Nations (1776), enunciated the liberal principles of free trade. The editors of the Spanish Constitution of 1812, drafted in Cádiz, may have been the first to use the word liberal in a political sense as a noun. They named themselves the Liberales, to express their opposition to the absolutist power of the Spanish monarchy.

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1812. Man.

 

[Navy Pride]

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1812. Man.

Trust me my Left wing friend like the word Gay the word Liberal has a totally different meaning then it had 50 years ago................I voted for JFK in 1960 who could have been construed as a liberal and the word gay before it was hijacked by the left use to mean happy...........

 

[Kandahar]

It is impossible to support the troops and not support what they are trying to accomplish..............It makes no sense at all.......

Its like saying I supported "Lurch" Kerry but I voted for Bush........

Only a Liberal or a lefty would say that you can support one but not the other............

So let's say, hypothetically, that Bush ordered American troops to invade Canada tomorrow. Because, say, the Canadian foreign minister called him a nasty name. Would you support our troops?

Have there been any deployments of US troops anywhere in the world in your lifetime that you did NOT support? If so, why do you hate America, NP?

 

[Navy Pride]

So let's say, hypothetically, that Bush ordered American troops to invade Canada tomorrow. Because, say, the Canadian foreign minister called him a nasty name. Would you support our troops?

Have there been any deployments of US troops anywhere in the world in your lifetime that you did NOT support? If so, why do you hate America, NP?

1. Only a liberal would make that comparison.......

2. I always support the troops and completing their mission no matter who the president is........These guys are just trying to do a job...........That is one thing you liberals and Bush haters will never understand......

 

[rathi]

The American War of Independence established the first nation to craft a constitution based on the concept of liberal government, especially the idea that governments rule by the consent of the governed. The more moderate bourgeois elements of the French Revolution tried to establish a government based on liberal principles. Economists such as Adam Smith, in The Wealth of Nations (1776), enunciated the liberal principles of free trade. The editors of the Spanish Constitution of 1812, drafted in Cádiz, may have been the first to use the word liberal in a political sense as a noun. They named themselves the Liberales, to express their opposition to the absolutist power of the Spanish monarchy.

True but NP refers to the word liberal quite often; he means a political philosophy that the American left embraces.

When FDR was prez the term liberal wasn't even coined.......

But isn't he the textbook example for the liberals that you so much despise? I mean welfare state, big government, intervention into the economy and so on.

I grieve for every lost life in Iraq.........I lost 6 good friends in Nam.....I go to that wall every year in Washington and grieve for them.....We cut and run there and 58,000 men and millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians died for nothing........The troops in Iraq want to finish the job there.........

The troops in Iraq are there to serve their country. Fighting a pointless war with little chance of victory will only bring pain to their families back home. Vietnam is an example of what happens when you do not realize that political ideals are not worth thousands of soldier lives. Save the soldiers for the true threats that arise.

 

[26 X World Champs]

When FDR was prez the term liberal wasn't even coined.......

Actually, totally false, not true, you're making it up, it's a lie. FDR was the epitome of a Liberal! Let's review what he did that make him a Liberal:

Invented Social Security

Created Gigantic Government Agencies to Create Jobs

Created Welfare programs giving money directly to citizens for the first time

Created the Wagner Act in 1935 allowing Unions to organize & bargain collectively.

Stimulated economy by utilizing Federal Government money (spending programs) that directly employed people who otherwise would be unemployed.

FDR resisted entry into WWII until 1941 preferring an Isolationist strategy until confronted with Pearl Harbor.

BTW - JFK was as Liberal then as his brother Teddy is TODAY. He was the LIBERAL PARTY nominee for President in 1960 and he said in a speech:

Navy Pride....try to stay focused here and read JFK's words before you write the same idiotic reply you regularly do about JFK, that he "cut taxes so he's not a Liberal" bullshit...read this as many times as necessary for you to comprehend the truth:

Sen. John F. Kennedy, acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination, September 14, 1960.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

But first, I would like to say what I understand the word "Liberal" to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal," and what it means in the presidential election of 1960. (snip)

This is my political credo (snip):

I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.(snip)

The reason that Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson had influence abroad, and the United States in their time had it, was because they moved this country here at home, because they stood for something here in the United States, for expanding the benefits of our society to our own people, and the people around the world looked to us as a symbol of hope.

Source: Turn Left: What is a Liberal?

The last paragraph particularly underlines the difference between JFK as a Liberal and Bush as a NeoCon. They are polar opposites in the exact same way that I, as a 21st Century Liberal are with Bush, Navy Pride et al.

 

[26 X World Champs]

When FDR was prez the term liberal wasn't even coined.......

One further correction to your obviously mistaken definition of Liberal...

The word that didn't exist then that does now and that is responsible for most of the fuc ked up policies of our government in 2006 is:

NEOCON​

Liberalism has been around for a very long time and thrives today. NEOCONism is the single most invasive policy that has caused the greatest decline in American society and world standing in America's history, bar none.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

Of course one can support the troops but not their mission: the mission is not the troops, the troops are not the mission. Ask any mother whose child does things the mother doesn't like: does she still love the child? Generally, the answer is, "Yes, but I don't like what he/she is doing." People are not defined solely by their goals, nor by their jobs, nor by their level of accomplishment within those jobs or toward those goals.

So to deny that you can support the troops but not their mission is to deny that mothers love their wayward children. It is also to deny that one can "Love the sinner but hate the sin," another cliche that requires one to mentally separate the person from the actions.

So anyone who votes yes on this poll is a mother-hating anti-Christ. Shame on you.

 

[26 X World Champs]

It is also to deny that one can "Love the sinner but hate the sin," another cliche that requires one to mentally separate the person from the actions.

So anyone who votes yes on this poll is a mother-hating anti-Christ. Shame on you.

Exactly! Ironically the quote in question that started this post comes from Navy Pride's signature line and he has written many times (especially when talking about homosexuality) that he believes in "loving the sinner but hating the sin" yet he uses this over and over again:

It Is A Lie To Say You Support The Troops But Not Their Mission​

Interestingly, so far, the only two people as of this writing who have argued that NP's signature is true are Navy Pride and his Mini Me....

The points you make Coffee are chock full of yups (sorry :lol: ) and are truly accurate. There are zillions of further examples one can write to prove that the NO answer in this poll is correct but so far I've only seen one senseless and inaccurate argument that defends the ridiculous statement.

Strength in numbers...Don't you love how right wingers here constantly write that I or people who think like me are anti Military because we do not defend the war or condemn the genocidal killing of 24 Iraqis or condemn the Abu Grahb incident or demand that the prisoners in Gitmo be tried?

Ironic or Ignorant or both?

 

[CurrentAffairs]

I think one of the most enjoyable things about this forum is watching Navy Pride get under Champs skin. Without even trying, NP drives the Yankee man bonkers. :rofl