[W:#299]Is Israel dying as the middle East's only liberal democracy?

[Bodi]

There is no "debate" imo.
If you support a shiddy little sandy pseudo-"democracy" in the Mid East...you should head on over in my opinion. Your leader Bibi has called you home. Heed the call.

Sounds like you don't understand the history of the situation... .

 

[Bodi]

Hey Bodi...its doesnt take 70 ****ing years LOL.

To stop terrorist Palestinians and Arabs from being terrorists? Might even take another 70...

 

[Fledermaus]

Israel should never have been Irgun'd into existence. More prominent Jews than I - Einstein, Arendt - will ever be could see that.

You misspelled UNed

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

To stop terrorist Palestinians and Arabs from being terrorists? Might even take another 70...

I certainly wish the Freedom Fighters well Bodi as they fight for their freedom.
They dont bow to tyranny and oppression, and I really admire that. You gotta admire that, I dont care who you are.

 

[vegas giants]

I certainly wish the Freedom Fighters well Bodi as they fight for their freedom.
They dont bow to tyranny and oppression, and I really admire that. You gotta admire that, I dont care who you are.

How's Bill Cosby doing?

 

[Manc Skipper]

To stop terrorist Palestinians and Arabs from being terrorists? Might even take another 70...

The settlers are the terrorists, and each successive government appears to take your line a little farther in support of them.

 

[Bodi]

The settlers are the terrorists, and each successive government appears to take your line a little farther in support of them.

No. They are forced to try to expand their borders so that they can have a better defensive posture.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Some wonder why conservativism is a bastion for anti-semitism while being so 'pro-Israel'. I don't see a contradiction. Whether openly or sub-consciously, many/most conservatives believe in ethno-states. Israel is the ethno-state of the Jew and conservatives believe Jews should move there.

No. It's specifically a Protestant thing

 

[Geoist]

No. It's specifically a Protestant thing

And what denomination do antisemitic white supremacists usually associate themselves with?

 

[John3945]

Some wonder why conservativism is a bastion for anti-semitism while being so 'pro-Israel'. I don't see a contradiction. Whether openly or sub-consciously, many/most conservatives believe in ethno-states. Israel is the ethno-state of the Jew and conservatives believe Jews should move there.

Liberalism is a bastion for antisemitism far miore than conservatism. Jewish women being forced out of leadership positions in a women's march, etc.
Conservatives subconciously believe in an ethnostate? Subconciously? Really?? You read minds now?
Conservatives believe Jews should move to Israel? You know this how exactly?
Geoist, your post was full of some pretty fuzzy thinking. Why don't you stick to facts, not these dopey projections you like to engage in.

 

[Geoist]

Liberalism is a bastion for antisemitism far miore than conservatism. Jewish women being forced out of leadership positions in a women's march, etc.

Hilarious how you claim liberals have more antisemites and then 'prove' this with a single anecdote without a linked source.

Conservatives subconciously believe in an ethnostate? Subconciously? Really?? You read minds now?

This is my opinion. It's just like how conservatives claim they aren't racist but lock their car doors at the stoplight when a black man walks by.

 

[John3945]

Hilarious how you claim liberals have more antisemites and then 'prove' this with a single anecdote without a linked source.



This is my opinion. It's just like how conservatives claim they aren't racist but lock their car doors at the stoplight when a black man walks by.

You claimed the opposite and did not provide a link. I followed your lead, did not provide a link and it is "hilarious"? You are not making a lot of sense, Geoist.
Also, are you sure that conservatives lock their door at a stoplight when a black man walks by? How do you know this? There is a lot of projection
going on here. What I think is that you need to have a bogeyman to rail against and to feel better than, so you create these scenarios (conservatives locking their car doors).
Don't worry, it is a common failing of the left and always boils down to one thing: the deep need to virtue signal.

 

[j brown's body]

Liberalism is a bastion for antisemitism far miore than conservatism. Jewish women being forced out of leadership positions in a women's march, etc.
Conservatives subconciously believe in an ethnostate? Subconciously? Really?? You read minds now?
Conservatives believe Jews should move to Israel? You know this how exactly?
Geoist, your post was full of some pretty fuzzy thinking. Why don't you stick to facts, not these dopey projections you like to engage in.

The Tree of Life mass shooter sounded like a Republican.

 

[John3945]

The Tree of Life mass shooter sounded like a Republican.

So what? Are you trying the project the actions of one lunatic onto a group?

 

[Geoist]

You claimed the opposite and did not provide a link. I followed your lead, did not provide a link and it is "hilarious"? You are not making a lot of sense, Geoist.
Also, are you sure that conservatives lock their door at a stoplight when a black man walks by? How do you know this? There is a lot of projection
going on here. What I think is that you need to have a bogeyman to rail against and to feel better than, so you create these scenarios (conservatives locking their car doors).
Don't worry, it is a common failing of the left and always boils down to one thing: the deep need to virtue signal.

 

[John3945]

Not sure what that means. You are bored that I am asking why you are making things up?

 

[Geoist]

Not sure what that means. You are bored that I am asking why you are making things up?

You brought up a specific incident. I asked for a link. I brought up a general scenario. And you want a link to my general scenario. You are being silly and already boring me hence the :yawn:

 

[DarkWizard12]

1. Do you deny most anti-semites are conservative?

i'm open to the real data, but in my lived experience, that's not what i've seen. all the anti-semitism i have seen has come from the left, usually hidden as "anti-zionist rhetoric", but I know better...

2. Do you deny most promoters of ethno-states are conservative?

Depends on the specific state I think. I have seen many lefts promote ethno-states as it comes to, say, african or indigenous countries.

3. Do you deny those you think Jews should move to Israel, or at least should be 'loyal' to Israel are conservative?

I think it's at least similarly antisemitic to expect jews to belong in israel, as it is to expect jews to move out of Israel. Whether or not it is a good idea to move to israel, however, is entirely up to the jews themselves. Perhaps the jews in ukraine, currently experiencing a bloody war, might feel like they should move to israel.

Trump: Any Jew voting Democratic is uninformed or disloyal

WASHINGTON (AP) — Showing a fresh willingness to play politics along religious lines, President Donald Trump said American Jews who vote for Democrats show "either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty."

apnews.com

Trump says American Jewish leaders ‘lack loyalty’ and should be ‘ashamed’

***

www.haaretz.com

pointless.

 

[Geoist]

all the anti-semitism i have seen has come from the left

Lol, yeah no one believes you.

Depends on the specific state I think. I have seen many lefts promote ethno-states as it comes to, say, african or indigenous countries.

Yes, there are certain 'leftists' that promote ethno-states. They are typically a very small yet obnoxious minority much like the tankies.

I think it's at least similarly antisemitic to expect jews to belong in israel, as it is to expect jews to move out of Israel.

Well it's a good thing I and the vast majority of liberals/leftists don't believe the Jews should move out of Israel.

pointless.

How so?

 

[DarkWizard12]

Lol, yeah no one believes you.

It's my lived experience. Yes, I do know antisemites on the right exist online, i've seen them too, and I hate them to.

But as a LIVED experience, in the real world off the internet, it's always come from typical left wing groups. Muslims, arabs, college student orgs, etc. This has been going on for years longer than nick fuentes has even been a thing.

Louis Farrakhan has been freely spreading his antisemitism for decades, constantly, with nothing but hugs and smiles from the democrat establishment politicians. And now, you are mad that a few righties are starting to take this poison seriously?

It was on the left to nip this in the bud years ago, and ya'll didn't.

Yes, there are certain 'leftists' that promote ethno-states. They are typically a very small yet obnoxious minority much like the tankies.

idk if they're as "small" as you say, nor do i think it matters when they get 0 push back from the mainstream left.

Well it's a good thing I and the vast majority of liberals/leftists don't believe the Jews should move out of Israel.

Well, i certainly hope you're the vast majority of lefties, but i doubt it, based on my own personal experience.

How so?

Because you're talking to a guy who regularly pwns nick-fuentes stans on twitter, and then acts as if i've never seen these cases before. There's leagues difference in accusing jews of dual-loyalty....the typical antisemitic canard....and actually wanting jews to be proud of their collective accomplishments because it's good for them, and good for the US. Not only is not antisemitic, it's not even a "positive stereotype".

India built Taj Mahal, and they have every right to be proud of that. How much more then, should jews be proud of building a functioning country in the harshest region of the world? And after 2000 years of exile? I consider it a disappointment if jews aren't proud of Israel.

 

[oneworld2]

In the UK the most notorious anti-semite is Jeremy Corbyn. the recent far left leader of the Labour Party.

You have been had. Corbyn is one of the least racist people you could ever wish to meet.

The first line of attack to bring down Corbyn was to use " homophobia" in his Labour Party. That was the first smear campaign. Antisemitism was the second and proved to be successful, not because it was true, but because it was pushed.

People know this now but the damage was done and Corbyn, a genuine democratic threat to the One Party rule system in the UK was extinguished

Even after his departure hatred of Jews is commom among the Left. I know of no anti-semitism in the Conservative Party; I was a member when I lived in England.

Labour kicked out of the party more Jews than in any other time in its history during and since the Corbyn witch-hunt. The truth is that there are antisemites in the Tory party too. They just don't pose a threat to the status quo and so the focus on it is different

The only promotors of 'ethno states' that I can think of are Islamists.

You might need to think more then. Israel is an ethno state, Ukraine is being shaped as an ethno state and neither are being run by " Islamists"

 

[oneworld2]

No idea what being "Irgun'd into existence" means but Israel exists and the sooner you come to realize it the better.

The reference to the Irgun is probably a reference to the use of terrorism by some Jewish actors in order to ethnically cleanse Palestine of its Arab population.

If the Arabs there and in the OPTs ever decide to drop the push for their own state and take on a civil rights anti apartheid stance/protest movement themselves, the state might well cease to exist as it has.

 

[oneworld2]

One of the scarier things for the fundie right is that in revelation, theres a returning of all the jews back to the holy land to trigger armageddon or the second coming prophesies. I dont put any stock into millenia old prophesies but the fundies sure do.

That's always been the irony in right wing Christian support for Israel. They support the state and the Jewish return only so their own Lord will return and give them the option ............... convert to Christianity or burn ? So much for notions of antisemitism.

 

[oneworld2]

Our Native American policy appealed to Hitler, why not to Isreal?

Unfortunately for Israeli hardliners they just dipped out on the conquest by genocide settler colonialist era.

After the Nakba they have had to engage in the much more time consuming " we'll use a Peace Process as a façade for an Annexation Process " approach.

 

[oneworld2]

There was nothing wrong with creating Israel.

Well I am sure if the UN had settled on throwing you and yours out of your home/state so as to give it to recently arrived immigrants with an alien culture you might just see it differently.