Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

And don't even get me started on the closed circle of theocratic power.

Agent Ferris said:

The U.S. is a bastion of liberal pluralism, what system would you prefer? And which corporate powers would you be referring to exactly? Do you know what an anti-trust law is?

Click to expand...

LOL, anti-trust law.

America a bastion of liberal pluralism? No we're to the right of most other industrialized/post-industrial nations. Compared to Islamic countries we might be what you describe, I guess.

I'd suggest you read this book: Who Rules America? Power, Politics, & Social Change

Domhoff would suggest proportional representation, among other reforms. Single-district plurality voting is problematic in that individuals are easier to buy than entire parties. It's not that Americans have no voice in the matter, they are just so damned easily manipulated that it makes little difference most of the time.

Edit: So if you wanted America to be more democratic, proportional representation would help, I just think most people are so uninformed, and society is becoming so complex, than most people cannot possibly be informed enough to make policy decisions. And the people we have in power are lawyers who are clueless about how society works, only how the law works, which itself is capricious because it is controlled by lawyers and people who sit on multiple corporate boards.

Edit 2: See lawyers are trained on how to persuade people of lies, which unfortunately means they know more about how to tug on heartstrings than how to evaluate evidence even if they are well-intentioned.

I would suggest a specific form of technocracy. Evidence-based governing with multidisciplinary competency tests for being intelligent and informed enough to help shape policy. And governing people being insulated from benefitting from their own decisions. Another needed component would be the ability to reliably test empathy. Polygraph tests would help, but they're not perfect. So while I think my system would still be better than the status quo, technology would need to progress a bit further for it to work optimally.

Agent Ferris said:

You can be religious and not have a theocratic dictatorship. And if the Iranian people really want a system of governance in which all national candidates must be pre-approved by the Guardian Council, where half of the Guardian Council is selected directly by the Supreme Leader and the other half are selected by the Majilis (who again are pre-screened by the Guardian Council) out of a list of jurists who are selected by the head of the Judiciary who is selected directly by the Supreme Leader, and where the Assembly of Experts who choose the Supreme Leader are chosen amongst a pre-screened list vetted by the Guardian Council, and an expediency council which solves disputes between the pre-screened Majilis and the directly and indirectly selected Guardian Council is selected directly by the Supreme Leader, then fine let them vote for it in a free and fair election monitored by international observers.

If you're a reformist who doesn't support ending this closed system of power in which the Supreme Leader rules... well Supreme then I don't see how you can be labeled a reformist.

Click to expand...

.........................................................................

You have a point about Iran though. Even if the election hadn't been rigged, it still would only have been an illusion of democracy.

Islam is incompatible with civilization, period, just like every other religion. There is a reason why we have seperation of church and state in this country. Americans better wake up to the fact that there is a large sector of Islamists who believe that the rejection of Islam warrants our complete annhilation. Nevermind, we're too busy worrying about whether the terrorists at Gitmo can get through to their attorney.

Kandahar said:

No moreso than any other religion.

Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Algeria, Tunisia, Senegal, Mali, Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia...these countries ALL have democracies, or had democracies at some point in the last 100 years. Not many of their democracies look like American democracy...but that's to be expected, as their culture is very different.

Click to expand...

This is very true. I hope all liberals will remember this when referring to Iraq.

Any fool country can bean count, the real question is can most Islamic nations cultivate democracy and pluralism, religious freedom and equality within the state, in other words can Islamic nations learn to be secular nations?

Turkey gave it a good go in the 20th century but now seems to be Koran-sliding.

Oil and water.

Islam is about submission body and soul. Democracy is about asserting yourself.

bub said:

According to Samuel Huntington, Islam is incompatible with religion because
- there is no separation with church & state in these countries
- democracy is not present in their culture
- the Koran itself is contrary to democracy
...

Do you think he's right or wrong? Why?

Click to expand...

"Maulana Mohammad, the Pakistan government says, told followers in the town of Mingora that there 'is no room for democracy in Islam.' He demanded that the entire nation be placed under the Shariah law."

"During a sermon to worshippers at the Masjid al-Qudsia in Lahore’s Chowburji area, reported by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa website on October 14, 2007, Saeed asserted that 'current political systems, especially democracy, are against Islam.'”

“'We hate democracy,' the pro-Taliban cleric said in February 2009, soon after the Government of Pakistan signed a peace deal that imposed Shariah across north-west Pakistan. 'We want the occupation of Islam in the entire world. Islam does not permit democracy or election.'"

Click to expand...

Jihad Watch

Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"
Benador Associates ^ | May 19, 2004 | Amir Taheri

Amir Taheri's remarks during the debate on " Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"