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Is Islam descructive?

mustafa said:
I dont blame you for thinking that these verses are evil


Words arent evil. Words are just words. Its people that use them to justify violence and terror that I find need some assistance in adjusting their world view in order to get along with the rest of us.

The irony is that extremists have the exact same perspective in reverse.

I would like to hear the many different interpretions of "Kill" when they mean something other than kill.
 
Atheism is much more destructive than Islam.
 
Revolutionary said:
Atheism is much more destructive than Islam.
Well, I would like you to develop this.

Thx for your input.
Y
 
akyron said:
Geez
Why cant we all let each other be in peace?
Amen. Ooops. Meant "Cheers" :lol:

Great point made in your post, mate.

Y
 
Islam is destructive. It is divisive. We need a brotherhood of man... not a brotherhood of Muslims !
 
Muslims has a big Islamic science called " Al tafseer" which means something like "explaining" or "clarifying"

Good talk :)

You couldn't understand the right meaning of Quran, If you don't have a historical and Islamical background

So there is books from people whos really know what are they doing explaning the meaning of Quran !

Also you should know the meaning of Jihad, because what Osama bin laden are doing and even what happen in Iraq is not Jihad
 
SMBS said:
Also you should know the meaning of Jihad, because what Osama bin laden are doing and even what happen in Iraq is not Jihad

I know that! I've forgotten the exact definition... but I know it's not that. *feels smart* :mrgreen:
 
robin said:
Islam is destructive. It is divisive. We need a brotherhood of man... not a brotherhood of Muslims !




The religion itself is not divisive.....some of it's praticioners are though when woman babies were being buried alive because they werent male Islam forbid this practice......when two people would fight and thus it would become a war between two entire tribes of people Islam forbid that practice also.....when Jews were being persecuted worldwide they found refuge in Islamic countries



The Believers are but a single Brotherhood.
Sura 49:10



O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.
O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear Allah: For Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. Sura 49:11-12 (Yusuf Ali's Translation)


Please show me where the absence of religion is any more peaceful....take a look at the hatred on the political boards among the "left" and "right" wingers...they arent speaking of religion yet that hatred is real......Man hates and Man kills.....period


peace
 
epr64 said:
Well, I would like you to develop this.

Thx for your input.
Y



Well probably because Mao Hitler and Stalin were some of the biggest Murderers of our time and they were not Religious (although Hitler claimed to be)...however the line is blurred (IMO) because I believe that like Hitler there are many who are actually Atheisits who claim to be religous in order to devolop a following



peace
 
Surenderer said:
Well probably because Mao Hitler and Stalin were some of the biggest Murderers of our time and they were not Religious (although Hitler claimed to be)...however the line is blurred (IMO) because I believe that like Hitler there are many who are actually Atheisits who claim to be religous in order to devolop a following



peace
Well, this leaves me without voice.

[sarcasm]I thought Hitler killed people because he was a nazi dictator, Stalin a communist dictator and Mao a maoist dictator. Let's not forget the Pol-Potic dictator, the Pinochean dictator and a few others.
It never occured to me that THE thing they had in common and led them to those crimes was atheism. I stupidly thought it was the fact that they were dictators. [/sarcasm]

I understand what you mean, but I REALLY think you should reformulate that..

CU
Y
 
As there are different "versions" of Christianity, so are there different "versions" of Islam. The Islam that is being practiced largely in the Arab heartland is not the same as Indonesia, India, North America, and other countries. This Arab version of Islam is constrictive and oppressive. It is meant to be. All Religions have had to change with the passing of time as our western technologies have threatened them. Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century. The Middle East's Islamic civilization has stagnated and has been sinking deeper and deeper into their religion. So deep, that human sacrifice is accepted.

Religions change, because men change them. Fundamentalists insist upon an historical stasis, but evolution in the architecture of faith has always been essential to, and reflective of, human progress. Certainty is comforting, but a religion’s capacity for adaptive behavior unleashes the energies necessary to renew both the faith and the society in which it flourishes. On its frontiers, Islam remains capable of the changes necessary to make it, once again, a healthy, luminous faith whose followers can compete globally on its own terms. But the hard men from that religion’s ancient homelands are determined to frustrate every exploratory effort they can. The Muslim extremist from the Middle East has one consistent message: Return to the past, for that is what God wants. Beware, no matter his faith, of the man who presumes to tell you what God wants. It cannot be accomplished, of course, this longed-for return to a golden age of sanctity and success, that is mostly myth, is gone. But the bloody-handed terrorists and their mentors are determined to pay any price to frustrate those Muslims who believe that God is capable of smiling, or that it is possible to change the earth without challenging Heaven.

The complex, exasperating, and frequently inspiring world of Islam faces a historically unique challenge. An entire religious civilization, of remarkable variety, must change if it is to survive economically and culturally. We are foolish if we do not do what lies within our power to enable that change to occur. Success will never be final, but always a matter of degree - which is the difference between a bloody contest of civilizations and the routine ebb and flow of lesser conflicts. For the Middle East, a lesser conflict (Current situation in Iraq) is what our "toleration" and failures to act descisively, have led us.
 
Surenderer said:
Please show me where the absence of religion is any more peaceful....take a look at the hatred on the political boards among the "left" and "right" wingers...they arent speaking of religion yet that hatred is real......Man hates and Man kills.....period peace
Imagine Iraq without Sunni v Shiite ?
There is a civil war brewing becuase of that insane religious tribalism. Whatever you say about left v right that doesn't detract from the fact that the majority of wars are entirely due to religious tribalism.
 
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It's always either about land or religion (or lack thereof).
 
GySgt said:
As there are different "versions" of Christianity, so are there different "versions" of Islam. The Islam that is being practiced largely in the Arab heartland is not the same as Indonesia, India, North America, and other countries. This Arab version of Islam is constrictive and oppressive. It is meant to be. All Religions have had to change with the passing of time as our western technologies have threatened them. Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century. The Middle East's Islamic civilization has stagnated and has been sinking deeper and deeper into their religion. So deep, that human sacrifice is accepted.

Religions change, because men change them. Fundamentalists insist upon an historical stasis, but evolution in the architecture of faith has always been essential to, and reflective of, human progress. Certainty is comforting, but a religion’s capacity for adaptive behavior unleashes the energies necessary to renew both the faith and the society in which it flourishes. On its frontiers, Islam remains capable of the changes necessary to make it, once again, a healthy, luminous faith whose followers can compete globally on its own terms. But the hard men from that religion’s ancient homelands are determined to frustrate every exploratory effort they can. The Muslim extremist from the Middle East has one consistent message: Return to the past, for that is what God wants. Beware, no matter his faith, of the man who presumes to tell you what God wants. It cannot be accomplished, of course, this longed-for return to a golden age of sanctity and success, that is mostly myth, is gone. But the bloody-handed terrorists and their mentors are determined to pay any price to frustrate those Muslims who believe that God is capable of smiling, or that it is possible to change the earth without challenging Heaven.

The complex, exasperating, and frequently inspiring world of Islam faces a historically unique challenge. An entire religious civilization, of remarkable variety, must change if it is to survive economically and culturally. We are foolish if we do not do what lies within our power to enable that change to occur. Success will never be final, but always a matter of degree - which is the difference between a bloody contest of civilizations and the routine ebb and flow of lesser conflicts. For the Middle East, a lesser conflict (Current situation in Iraq) is what our "toleration" and failures to act descisively, have led us.

This is a nice post, and well written, too, which is a pleasure to see. I agree with your assertions here for the most part. The Islamic world is in need of a renaissance or enlightenment period. But in your opinion do you think we are doing "what lies in our power to enable that change to occur?" I tend to think that we are now (and have left before) many avenues of influence under-utilized in our dealings with the middle east. Outside of Saudi Arabia and a few other "friendly" gulf states, there has seemed to be, generally speaking, a lack of respect for diplomacy in dealing with our conflicts there. More so than conflicts with other regions. At least, that's how it seems to me.

It is in our own best interest for these changes to occur. Considering the level of anti-Western sentiment (distrust) in the middle east/southeast asian region, I wonder why we don't do more to counteract their suspicions. Instead we seem intent on confirming them. Humility, compromise, earning trust & respect, compassion....These words are not included in the vernacular of our foreign policy when it comes to the middle east. Why is that?
 
"I wonder why we don't do more to counteract their suspicions. Instead we seem intent on confirming them. Humility, compromise, earning trust & respect, compassion....These words are not included in the vernacular of our foreign policy when it comes to the middle east. Why is that?"

Religious intolerance always returns in times of doubt and disorder. Fundamentalist terrorism has not arisen despite the progress the world has made, but because of it. Were it not for oil, the Middle East would have no competitive front with the world. The oil rich and greedy Arabs have sealed their fate and married it to their depleting oil supply - nothing else matters. Blaming American foreign policy is not correct. In times of trouble, men and women cling to what they know. They seek simple answers to daunting complexities. And religious extremists around the world, in every major religion throughout history, have been delighted to provide those simple answers. It does not matter if those answers are true, so long as they shift blame from the believer’s shoulders and promise punishment to enemies, real or imagined. This is where terrorism has been bred. The basic problem is daunting: We face a failing civilization in the Middle East.

For decades we have downplayed—or simply ignored—the hate-filled speech directed toward us, the monstrous lessons taught by extremists to children, and the duplicity of so many states we insisted were our friends. The futureless masses yearn to excuse their profound individual inadequacies and to explain away the prison walls their beliefs have made of their lives. The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice. Their anger is simply misdirected. Instead of blaming their oppresive religion and their government's strangle hold on them....they blame America - it's easier.

As far as counteracting their suspicions....We have witnessed a great and historical event in the Gaza strip. Israel (with America's urging support) has made a great leap forward in the interest of peace. They have angered and bronken the hearts of their own people as a strong show of their want for peace with Palestinian Muslims. They have evacuated the Gaza strip and bulldozed homes to make way for the Palestinian move. Their thanks? The Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas spoke to the world on the Palestinian victory over their enemies. Even Iran (the Sunni backer) took a jab at Israel's courageous and bold move for peace. "It is interesting to know that this withdrawal was not a choice. This was a defeat sustained by the Zionist regime. It was done out of desperation," said Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. At least the Palestinian leadership spoke of peace between peoples. Iran chose to bask in an imagined victory against infidels. Islamic extremists attacked and murdered Israeli civilians even with the post "pull out". These people will not be satisfied until Israel is destroyed and America perishes. Don't fool yourself. Until the Middle Eastern civilization embraces what everyone else in the world is striving for, we will never have peace with them.

To point a finger...I would blame it all on the Sunni and their quest to rid the earth of "infidels." We have before us, recorded in fifty years of history, every proof needed to accuse these people of fanatical hate, fanatical bigotry, fanatical racism, and religiously sponsered fanatical violence. Yet so many would rather blame America and Israel for wronging them some how and "making" them murder our civilians.
 
robin said:
Islam is destructive. It is divisive. We need a brotherhood of man... not a brotherhood of Muslims !



Well said.
I can agree with you on that point. Apologizing and appeasing religious zealots merely caters to their false notions of doing the will of a supreme being or his prophet.



What does God want with a starship? -Capt. James T. Kirk
 
vergiss said:
It's always either about land or religion (or lack thereof).


I guess oil can be considered land in this case.
 
MiamiFlorida said:
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

Verse 9:123

"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."

Verse 47:3

"Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Verse 48:29

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."

Verse 66:9

"Unbelievers are those who declare: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'"

5:17

"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another."

5:51

"Say: 'People of the Book, is it not that you hate us only because we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was formerly revealed, and because most of you are evil-doers?' Say: 'Shall I tell you who will receive a worse reward from Allah? Those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He has been angry, transforming them into apes and swine, and those who serve the devil."

5:59

"Unbelievers are those that say:'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary."

5:72

"Unbelievers are those that say: 'God is one of three.'"
5:73

"Say to the desert Arabs who stayed behind: 'You shall be called upon to fight a mighty nation, unless they embrace Islam. If you prove obedient, Allah will reward you well. But if you run away, as you have done before this, He will inflict on you a stern chastisement.' It shall be no offense for the blind, the lame, and the sick to stay behind. He that obeys Allah and His apostle shall be admitted to gardens watered by running streams; but he that turns and flees shall be sternly punished by Him."

48:16



Excellent post. People want to know about Islam, ...why they should check out all about Mohammed.
 
akyron said:
I guess oil can be considered land in this case.

Hmmm... property?
 
Surenderer said:
Please show me where the absence of religion is any more peaceful


Has there ever been a country of atheists?

Maybe we have not tried it yet so thats why there has been endless war for 8000 years.
 
akyron said:
Has there ever been a country of atheists?

Maybe we have not tried it yet so thats why there has been endless war for 8000 years.
Hmmm. I might be wrong on this, but it seems to me that USSR was definitely against religion. The French Constitution clearly states since 1789 the full separation of state and religion. Both weren't very peacefull ;) .

Now, if you mean a country where everyone is atheist, I never heard 'bout such a place.

CU
Y
 
The Qur'an is a very difficult text to understand. Most of these quotes have multiple meanings and highly depend on context. But anyone can take words from an authoritative text and warp them to fit their purposes. The Qur'an is not evil -- certain people who use it for the justification of violence are.



MiamiFlorida said:
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

Verse 9:123

"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."

Verse 47:3

"Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Verse 48:29

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."

Verse 66:9

"Unbelievers are those who declare: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'"

5:17

"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another."

5:51

"Say: 'People of the Book, is it not that you hate us only because we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was formerly revealed, and because most of you are evil-doers?' Say: 'Shall I tell you who will receive a worse reward from Allah? Those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He has been angry, transforming them into apes and swine, and those who serve the devil."

5:59

"Unbelievers are those that say:'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary."

5:72

"Unbelievers are those that say: 'God is one of three.'"
5:73

"Say to the desert Arabs who stayed behind: 'You shall be called upon to fight a mighty nation, unless they embrace Islam. If you prove obedient, Allah will reward you well. But if you run away, as you have done before this, He will inflict on you a stern chastisement.' It shall be no offense for the blind, the lame, and the sick to stay behind. He that obeys Allah and His apostle shall be admitted to gardens watered by running streams; but he that turns and flees shall be sternly punished by Him."

48:16
 
akyron said:
Has there ever been a country of atheists?

Maybe we have not tried it yet so thats why there has been endless war for 8000 years.


China ? its largely atheist.
 
Snoozin said:
The Qur'an is a very difficult text to understand. Most of these quotes have multiple meanings and highly depend on context. But anyone can take words from an authoritative text and warp them to fit their purposes. The Qur'an is not evil -- certain people who use it for the justification of violence are.


The Koran is used by Muslims all over the world. The greatest population of Muslims reside in India and Indonesia. We do not witness the blaphemous perversion and violence from these people that we see in the Middle East. This form of Arab Islam is destructive and they use the Koran to oppress their people. Their extremists use the Koran verse to practice their blood cult for their god. They are reverting back to the days before Muhammed condemned human sacrifice.

This is not a Muslim issue, this is not a Koran issue. This is a Sunni Arab issue in the Middle East and his version of Islam. It has been spreading steadily for some time now. And what have we done about it....? Nothing.
 
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