Is homosexuality a mental illness?

[Demon of Light]

Nerve impulses sent through the phrenic and thoracic nerves to the diaphragm and the intercostal muscles.

None of which are part of the autonomic nervous system. What your autonomic nervous system controls are the smooth muscles in the bronchi and not the diaphragm. Your autonomic nervous system does tell your body that you need to breathe including when to breathe and how much to breathe, but that is not the same as controlling your breathing anymore than your body telling you it needs food is controlling your eating habits.

A human who has NEVER had consciousness can and will breathe.

I assume never means born unconscious. Now, I cannot find anything specific on this, but from what I can gather that most often happens because the baby is not breathing or having considerable difficulty breathing. Also, it seems you are not including prenatal life in any of your considerations.

 

[CriticalThought]

Unconsciously, breathing is controlled by specialized centers in the brainstem, which automatically regulate the rate and depth of breathing depending on the body’s needs at any time.

In other words, if we were born with only a brain stem, then we would still breath, even though we would be utterly incapable of learning.

And FYI, there have been infants born with just a brainstem.

Case closed. Moving on.

 

[Thorgasm]

I have. How about you explain to me how the autonomic nervous system controls the thoracic diaphragm that is absolutely essential in breathing?

Control

Ventilation is controlled by the autonomic nervous system. The breathing regulatory center is in the medulla oblongata and the pons, parts of the brain stem containing a series of interconnected neurons that coordinate respiratory movements. The sections are the pneumotaxic center, the apneustic center, and the dorsal and ventral respiratory groups (CRISP 2007). This section of the brain is especially sensitive during infancy, and the neurons can be destroyed if the infant is dropped or shaken violently. The result can be early death due to "shaken baby syndrome" (SIPH 2006).

Respiratory system - New World Encyclopedia

Good luck finding any source that differs with this one. :rofl

To give you an idea consider the difference between a newborn child's breathing rate and heart rate. The heart is almost always regular and irregularity is brought on by some physical issue. However, breathing is irregular and many times without any reason for the irregularity. In particular babies will have moments where they stop breathing and this occurs more often when asleep.

Consider sleepwalking and any other number of actions we perform while asleep. We are able to perform these actions without being awake because our mind already knows how to do it so well.

Actually there is a reason for the irregular breathing, it just isn't apparent to us yet.

Babies aren't "sleep breathing". "Sleep walking" isn't sleeping, it's a different state of semi-consciousness. People in comas don't sleepwalk. They do however breath.

 

[Hicup]

CT -

Military societies, like Sparta, embraced homosexuality for this reason. They saw that men who loved each other would fight harder for each other and so it was an encouraged part of the culture. The military units with the strongest cohesion were usually the ones that survived and thus the traits persisted

Ah, now we're talkin, good! I happen to know quite a bit about Sparta. Without the history lesson, lets just say that your comment specifically adds weight to my assertion that homosexual orientation, as defined by you, and CC, is not unlike a deep bonding friendship. Even the attraction part is closely in-tune with this in context. What separates the meanings, is the action of sexual behavior, but wait, that can't be right now either, since Spartans participated in homosexual behavior, and even the deep bondings associated with sexual orientation, but by all historical accounts, Spartans were not homosexual. Now that's just weird, isn't it?


Tim-

 

[CriticalThought]

but by all historical accounts, Spartans were not homosexual. Now that's just weird, isn't it?

Ah, you don't want to talk about the science behind homosexuality, you want to talk about identity politics. You are talking about two entirely different things. The orientation of homosexuality and the identity of homosexuality are different. The former is based on attractions and behaviors, the latter is the cognitive and emotional reconciliation of those attractions and behaviors into personal identity.

Spartan society recognized that homosexual orientation existed in people to varying degrees. It took advantage of that by promoting it within the context of institutionalized pedentric relationships in the military and among the elites. It was something practiced by a minority of Greek society just as homosexuality is only practiced by a minority of our society. However, the idea of a homosexual identity did not exist in Spartan society. That idea has only come into existence in the last several decades as our understanding of human sexuality has been increased due to advances in science and communication.

As further evidence that our current understanding of human sexuality is superior to that of ancient societies is the fact that homosexual relationships were expected to end in ancient times, but some still chose to get married and even face persecution for that choice.

 

[Demon of Light]

Good luck finding any source that differs with this one. :rofl

Ventilation is not the same as breathing. Ventilation refers to the amount of air allowed into the lungs by the bronchi, which is a smooth muscle that is under the control of the autonomic nervous system. Air only enters the bronchi after a person takes a breath. Try again.

Actually there is a reason for the irregular breathing, it just isn't apparent to us yet.

Are you saying you can give a reason or that you can't?

Babies aren't "sleep breathing". "Sleep walking" isn't sleeping, it's a different state of semi-consciousness. People in comas don't sleepwalk. They do however breath.

There are many levels of consciousness. People in comas can exhibit varying levels of activity and the deeper the coma the more basic the activity. The deepest of comas are just a step away from death and losing the ability to breath is a pretty surefire way to die.

 

[LizardofOz]

I dunno I love hot sauce a lot. So much I put it on everything even stuff most people don't. I love cadbury eggs so much I wish they made them all year long. I wish they were so big you had to bust it open with a hammer. Am I crazy?

Are you suggesting that the guy that cuts my hair is crazy? When did you have this epiphany, and how many hours a day do you spend looking up **** that doesn't matter on the internet to come up with such a conclusion?

 

[Thorgasm]

Ventilation is not the same as breathing. Ventilation refers to the amount of air allowed into the lungs by the bronchi, which is a smooth muscle that is under the control of the autonomic nervous system. Air only enters the bronchi after a person takes a breath. Try again.

From the same source:

Ventilation of the lungs in humans is carried out by the muscles of respiration, which include intercostal muscles.

Respiratory system - New World Encyclopedia

You are speaking of the intercostal muscles, but it is not limited to them.

Now it's your turn to put up a source that says that breathing is not controlled by the autonomic nervous system. Don't forget to breath while doing this.

Are you saying you can give a reason or that you can't?

I can't give you the reason. That doesn't mean that a reason doesn't exist. It just isn't apparent to us yet, if it ever will be.

There are many levels of consciousness. People in comas can exhibit varying levels of activity and the deeper the coma the more basic the activity. The deepest of comas are just a step away from death and losing the ability to breath is a pretty surefire way to die.

That's nice. People in comas do breath. They still don't "sleep walk".

 

[CriticalThought]

I'm getting pretty sure that Demon is a troll. Who in their right mind would actually think breathing is learned when infants born with just a brain stem can do it?

If he isn't a troll, then he is willfully ignorant, which isn't exactly better.

 

[rivrrat]

None of which are part of the autonomic nervous system.

LMFAO Yes, it most certainly is part of the ANS. Jesus christ.

What your autonomic nervous system controls are the smooth muscles in the bronchi and not the diaphragm.

Yes, it does control the diaphragm via the nerves I mentioned.

Your autonomic nervous system does tell your body that you need to breathe including when to breathe and how much to breathe, but that is not the same as controlling your breathing anymore than your body telling you it needs food is controlling your eating habits.

Yes, it does, via the nerve impulses previously mentioned.

I assume never means born unconscious. Now, I cannot find anything specific on this, but from what I can gather that most often happens because the baby is not breathing or having considerable difficulty breathing. Also, it seems you are not including prenatal life in any of your considerations.

Yes, I mean born unconscious. For any reason. Doesn't have to be due to not breathing since they aren't breathing until AFTER they're born anyway. I mean, if an infant (or most other mammals) is born unconscious, it will breathe perfectly fine on it's own since our ANS controls that for us when are unable or choose not to.

And, I'm not including prenatal because prenates don't ****ing breathe.

I'm done with this bull****. You've got to be some kind of ****ing troll or something because I honestly cannot fathom a person with any intelligence ACTUALLY arguing this ****ing nonsense seriously.

 

[rivrrat]

I'm getting pretty sure that Demon is a troll. Who in their right mind would actually think breathing is learned when infants born with just a brain stem can do it?

If he isn't a troll, then he is willfully ignorant, which isn't exactly better.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Demon of Light]

From the same source:



You are speaking of the intercostal muscles, but it is not limited to them.

I am not speaking of the intercostal muscles. I was talking about the bronchi, smooth muscles that form part of the airway into the lungs. Looking back into this though, it seems ventilation is used to refer to the part of the respiratory process that includes breathing. However, as this also includes functions carried out by the bronchi, which is under the control of the autonomic nervous system, your source still does not make your point.

Now it's your turn to put up a source that says that breathing is not controlled by the autonomic nervous system.

Since you have yet to actually provide a source that says it is, rather than confusing other functions of the respiratory system with breathing, I don't think I have any need to provide you anything. What evidence I have provided can be easily verified in any source you choose including the one you yourself used.

I can't give you the reason. That doesn't mean that a reason doesn't exist. It just isn't apparent to us yet, if it ever will be.

So you really can't say I'm wrong. You just believe I'm wrong without reason.

That's nice. People in comas do breath. They still don't "sleep walk".

Some people in comas also move their eyes and make noises.

Who in their right mind would actually think breathing is learned when infants born with just a brain stem can do it?

Do you know the processes the brain stem is involved in? It includes many functions not under the control of the autonomic nervous system. Among them are eye movement, facial expressions, and chewing.

LMFAO Yes, it most certainly is part of the ANS. Jesus christ.


Yes, it does control the diaphragm via the nerves I mentioned.


Yes, it does, via the nerve impulses previously mentioned.

No it doesn't control any of these with any of the nerves you mention and it most certainly is not part of the autonomic nervous system. Do like five minutes of research, because that is all it will take for you to see I am unquestionably right about this much.

Yes, I mean born unconscious. For any reason. Doesn't have to be due to not breathing since they aren't breathing until AFTER they're born anyway.

Like I said, they make all the motions of breathing long before birth. Sure they aren't technically taking in air yet, but they are getting ready for the time when they need to take in air.

I mean, if an infant (or most other mammals) is born unconscious, it will breathe perfectly fine on it's own since our ANS controls that for us when are unable or choose not to.

Other than an infant born incapable of breathing properly the best examples of a child born unconscious is a child born with only part of the brain and as long as the parts needed for control of the diaphragm and respiration are in tact there is no reason why said baby would not be capable of breathing. Those parts are all in the brainstem.

 

[CriticalThought]

Do you know the processes the brain stem is involved in? It includes many functions not under the control of the autonomic nervous system. Among them are eye movement, facial expressions, and chewing.

Troll.

The brainstem is the seat of the autonomic nervous system. Even a 5th grade student could tell me that much.

If you really don't know that much then I feel very sorry for you.

 

[rivrrat]

Troll.

The brainstem is the seat of the autonomic nervous system. Even a 5th grade student could tell me that much.

If you really don't know that much then I feel very sorry for you.

Indeed. Shame on us for letting him waste that much of our time on his nonsense.

 

[Demon of Light]

The brainstem is the seat of the autonomic nervous system.

Did I say it wasn't? I only added that the brainstem does not just control involuntary functions.

 

[CriticalThought]

Did I say it wasn't? I only added that the brainstem does not just control involuntary functions.

Are you still talking?