Is homophobia genetic?

[The Baron]

When does homophobia stop being homophobia and is just a difference of opinion?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Yeah... especially with the latino american upbringing in certain periods of my life. They sort of hammer machismo into you. As if gays would come onto you without signal or be on molestatious dementia bent horny rampages.

While at the same time young girls are influenced to like the 'girly man' like David Bowie.

What gives?

 

[Hoplite]

When does homophobia stop being homophobia and is just a difference of opinion?

When you stop trying to force that opinion on others.

 

[imprtnrd]

You really wouldn't that to happen. A gay girl marry your son, or gay guy marry your daughter?? No connection there!

They are equal - they have all the same rights as I do. They can marry someone of an opposite sex just like the rest of us.

 

[OscarB63]

When does homophobia stop being homophobia and is just a difference of opinion?

it doesn't, any disagreement with homosexuality is by default homophobia. if you aren't a bell ringing gay supporter you are a bigotted homophobe. :shrug:

 

[OscarB63]

When you stop trying to force that opinion on others.

ah , like how all the homophiliacs have stopped trying to force their opinion on others?????

 

[SheWolf]

I dont think it's genetic. It does tend to run in families though because the most active source of socialization is usually a person's parents and if their parents are homophobic, they'll likely pass that mentality on to their kids simply because they interact with their kids more than most other adults.

I think that is true.. I know a whole family that is homophobic, and they talk about "fags" and who is gay with disgust.. They also say racist things, and I don't think racism is genetic either.. A lot less people are racist today, and younger people are more open to gay rights than the older generations. It's just old fashion social constructs.

I once had a conversation with my mom about this, and she said she was in her 20s... and her mom told her somebody was gay/lesbian. She didn't know what that meant. Grandma had to explain it to her, but she didn't understand until she was older. I think that is weird.

People try to say homosexuality is taught, and where my mom is from.. nobody talked about it around the kids. Kids were not exposed to it.

 

[Just1Voice]

I have posted this elsewhere, though not on this forum. It seems relevant, so I am reposting it here:

My uncle used to say "I have nothing against the gays, but I wish they would not keep throwing their sexuality in my face." He was upset at seeing people expressing their homosexuality in public by doing things like holding their partners hand, or kissing. What he meant was "Why can't they keep that stuff in the closet, where it belongs?" He had no problem with heterosexuals doing those things, but when homosexuals do it, then suddenly it is "in his face." This is the same argument that now gets made about "indoctrination."

It appears that any public acknowledgment that homosexuality exists and that it should be tolerated is now classified as indoctrination because children might see it and that would irreversibly corrupt their innocent young minds.

Children, as we all know from experience, are very strict enforcers of the status quo. There were few things worse in a child's social experience than to be different. Without a clear cue from adults that homosexuality is ok, children who are born gay suffer horribly. To roll back the public expression of sexuality for gays, but continue to allow it for straight folk, is to invite discrimination against homosexuals to return with open arms.

 

[Black Dog]

Homophobia in it's truest sense as a "fear" based reaction is not physical in any way. It is like racism, it is not born, it is taught.

 

[OscarB63]

My uncle used to say "I have nothing against the gays, but I wish they would not keep throwing their sexuality in my face." He was upset at seeing people expressing their homosexuality in public by doing things like holding their partners hand, or kissing. What he meant was "Why can't they keep that stuff in the closet, where it belongs?" He had no problem with heterosexuals doing those things, but when homosexuals do it, then suddenly it is "in his face."

I differ only in that I have a problem with both homos and heteros doing it. holding hands is no biggee, neither is a quick kiss. but to see two people making out and groping each other in public is inappropriate whether the couple is hetero or homo.

nothing like having to answer the following question from your 5 year old. "daddy, why was that man pulling on that other man's wiener?" this happened while walking down the street in downtown Memphis TN circa 1990. two dudes getting each other off while sitting on a busstop bench.

 

[SheWolf]

I have posted this elsewhere, though not on this forum. It seems relevant, so I am reposting it here:

My uncle used to say "I have nothing against the gays, but I wish they would not keep throwing their sexuality in my face." He was upset at seeing people expressing their homosexuality in public by doing things like holding their partners hand, or kissing. What he meant was "Why can't they keep that stuff in the closet, where it belongs?" He had no problem with heterosexuals doing those things, but when homosexuals do it, then suddenly it is "in his face." This is the same argument that now gets made about "indoctrination."

It appears that any public acknowledgment that homosexuality exists and that it should be tolerated is now classified as indoctrination because children might see it and that would irreversibly corrupt their innocent young minds.

Children, as we all know from experience, are very strict enforcers of the status quo. There were few things worse in a child's social experience than to be different. Without a clear cue from adults that homosexuality is ok, children who are born gay suffer horribly. To roll back the public expression of sexuality for gays, but continue to allow it for straight folk, is to invite discrimination against homosexuals to return with open arms.

I think people should worry about raising their own kids.. If somebody is a good parent, and their gay brother babysits their children that is their business. It's such BS... The government has no business getting involved with this and it's hypocrisy like this by "small government" Conservatives that really gets me.. It gets me on most of the gay rights issues in fact..

And part of me really doesn't think this issue hinges on concern for the children... I think it's really about them feeling personally uncomfortable..

 

[SheWolf]

Homophobia in it's truest sense as a "fear" based reaction is not physical in any way. It is like racism, it is not born, it is taught.

I think a lot of homophobes are uncomfortable about something... I used to know a really nice looking gay guy, and he said he'd get bashed in conversations or know somebody who was a social homophobe, but when they had one on one time... that basher was hitting on him. He said it happened a few times... especially if their drunk, they'll change. He got married in CA when it was legal, so he wasn't a slutty gay either, but was really hot

 

[OscarB63]

I think a lot of homophobes are uncomfortable about something... I used to know a really nice looking gay guy, and he said he'd get bashed in conversations or know somebody who was a social homophobe, but when they had one on one time... that basher was hitting on him. He said it happened a few times... especially if their drunk, they'll change. He got married in CA when it was legal, so he wasn't a slutty gay either, but was really hot

ah...the typical "anyone who is a homophobe must be a secret gay" crappola. worthless stereotyping, about as accurate as claiming all gay men are flamers who wear assless pants.

 

[Just1Voice]

nothing like having to answer the following question from your 5 year old. "daddy, why was that man pulling on that other man's wiener?" this happened while walking down the street in downtown Memphis TN circa 1990. two dudes getting each other off while sitting on a busstop bench.

Heterosexual couples cross that line too, and more often. They have sex in the stands at sporting events, in full view of everyone and often on camera, they have sex in theaters and parks... but they rarely attract the same attention.

Maybe I am only perceiving this because it comes up so often in this kind of conversation. I have never seen PDA in general come up as a subject folks feel strongly about. I only see it come up in conversations where homosexuality is discussed.

@SheWolf - Being different makes children feel uncomfortable. Without adult intervention and supervision, children all too often break up into groups based on similarity and then generate conflict. Perhaps the 'generating conflict' is a learned behavior, but the part where they form cliques and ostracize those who are different seems to happen regardless. That behavior only seems to reverse itself when they hit puberty and begin to actively seek out social interactions with more diverse people.

I am not gay, but I was certainly different as a child, and my peers ostracized me, and even persecuted me for being 'gay' though we were all too young to know what that meant. This took place when I was at an age when boys and girls considered each other 'yucky' - the concept of sex and sexual attraction was alien to us. If I had not been smart enough to recognize the effect it was having on me, I probably would have grown up vehemently homophobic, because I was so terribly hurt for being 'gay' as a child.

 

[OscarB63]

Heterosexual couples cross that line too, and more often. They have sex in the stands at sporting events, in full view of everyone and often on camera, they have sex in theaters and parks... but they rarely attract the same attention.

Maybe I am only perceiving this because it comes up so often in this kind of conversation. I have never seen PDA in general come up as a subject folks feel strongly about. I only see it come up in conversations where homosexuality is discussed.

maybe you should reread my entire post. I specifically said I have a problem with over the line PDA regardless of whether it is homo or hetero. I didn't want my kids seeing anyone groping someone publically when they were little.

there is a time and a place for such activity and on main street or in the stands at the baseball games is not it.

 

[Just1Voice]

maybe you should reread my entire post. I specifically said I have a problem with over the line PDA regardless of whether it is homo or hetero. I didn't want my kids seeing anyone groping someone publically when they were little.

there is a time and a place for such activity and on main street or in the stands at the baseball games is not it.

I did read your post, and I was not accusing you specifically. The very order of the posts here shows that in this particular case, I am the person who brought PDA into the conversation. What I stated was simply an observation that it is in discussions of homosexuality when it seems to come up most often. My initial example here cites my uncle as the offending party, in that particular conversation.

When folks talk about people throwing their sexuality in their face, it is usually PDA that they are talking about. More rarely they say it out of annoyance that someone is more flamboyant than they are comfortable with. Straight people are flamboyant sometimes too, and can be equally annoying because of it, but they rarely draw the same criticism for it.

Additionally, I know some folks who were bothered by a few popular sitcoms that seemed to use a wide variety of variations on "it's because I am gay" as a punchline for the majority of their jokes. And ok, I agree it got old. But when a group that has been heavily discriminated against starts to recover from that, it seems very understandable to me that they might want to flaunt their identity a bit.

In any case, it remains my major point that the visible acceptance of homosexuality within standards of conduct that are equal to those accepted for heterosexuality is a necessity as a preventative against homophobia.

 

[OscarB63]

I did read your post, and I was not accusing you specifically. The very order of the posts here shows that in this particular case, I am the person who brought PDA into the conversation. What I stated was simply an observation that it is in discussions of homosexuality when it seems to come up most often. My initial example here cites my uncle as the offending party, in that particular conversation.

When folks talk about people throwing their sexuality in their face, it is usually PDA that they are talking about. More rarely they say it out of annoyance that someone is more flamboyant than they are comfortable with. Straight people are flamboyant sometimes too, and can be equally annoying because of it, but they rarely draw the same criticism for it.

Additionally, I know some folks who were bothered by a few popular sitcoms that seemed to use a wide variety of variations on "it's because I am gay" as a punchline for the majority of their jokes. And ok, I agree it got old. But when a group that has been heavily discriminated against starts to recover from that, it seems very understandable to me that they might want to flaunt their identity a bit.

In any case, it remains my major point that the visible acceptance of homosexuality within standards of conduct that are equal to those accepted for heterosexuality is a necessity as a preventative against homophobia.

agreed. the standards should be the same for everyone.

 

[Hoplite]

I have posted this elsewhere, though not on this forum. It seems relevant, so I am reposting it here:

My uncle used to say "I have nothing against the gays, but I wish they would not keep throwing their sexuality in my face." He was upset at seeing people expressing their homosexuality in public by doing things like holding their partners hand, or kissing.
What he meant was "Why can't they keep that stuff in the closet, where it belongs?" He had no problem with heterosexuals doing those things, but when homosexuals do it, then suddenly it is "in his face." This is the same argument that now gets made about "indoctrination."

What's fun to bring up to people who make this argument is their lack of objection to having heterosexuality being pushed in their faces by society.

You hit part of it when you brought up the physical aspect, but even in the non-physical it gets brought up. Meeting someone for the first time "This is my wife and son." You've basically openly admitted you are heterosexual and are open about having sex at least once. Why is THAT not "pushing sexuality in your face"?

ah...the typical "anyone who is a homophobe must be a secret gay" crappola. worthless stereotyping, about as accurate as claiming all gay men are flamers who wear assless pants.

There is a surprising amount of truth to it. Stereotypes are often based on a tiny grain of truth blown out of proportion.

If someone feels impulses towards same-sex attraction in a social setting where that is NOT accepted and where they've been taught is bad or un-manly, guys will do a lot of out-there things to convince other people and themselves they arent gay. Part of that behavior is trying to forcibly march in the opposite direction just to show how not-gay they are or to distract others from their own behavior. "Well, THEY cant be gay, they hate gays!"

 

[Thorgasm]

Another thread brought this line of thinking to mind.

Sexual urges are probably the strongest urges we experience. They have to be, or we would have never survived. We are driven to have sex despite the conditions around us - in the face of disease, starvation, war, pestilence. Our sexual urges transcend all of these things....because having sex is soooo pleasurable.

Okay. Now. My subjective experience with homophobia has been that it is, in general, males that feel an absolute disgust when thinking about male homosexuality. It's been my personal experience that women take a more neutral approach to female homosexuality. If a homosexual woman made moves on a straight woman, it's highly unlikely the straight woman would be disgusted...or that any thought of violence would enter her mind. Just sort of, "No, thanks."

Anyhow, I'm beginning to think that this visceral reaction that has been hardwired into male humans as a way to preserve our species. Since sex is soo pleasurable, if men weren't hardwired to be so averse to sex with another male, we might not have been successful as a species.

Yeah, I know: wierd. But anyone have any thoughts?

Bigotry is learned, not genetic. There are no racist nor homophobic babies.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Bigotry is learned, not genetic. There are no racist nor homophobic babies.

I think it's human nature to not like something that's extreme different - or to dislike something because you don't understand. . . but, yeha, I wouldn't say that the particular dislike or hatred is inherited - it is taught.