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Is healthcare a right?

Is access to healthcare a right?

  • Yes healthcare is a right

    Votes: 37 44.6%
  • No healthcare is not a right

    Votes: 46 55.4%

  • Total voters
    83
  • Poll closed .

FederalRepublic

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Question 1: Is access to healthcare an individual right?

Question 2: If access to healthcare is an individual right, does the government have to must provide a reasonable level of healthcare to its citizens if a citizen can not afford healthcare?

No and no.
 

maquiscat

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It doesn't matter if they are private or government agencies. The fact remains that they are given a ridiculous amount of money (by our government) for nonsensical studies.

Do we really need to spend millions of dollars to study fish on a treadmill? Hamsters in a cage match? $22 million dollars to try to incentive people to join the cheese industry? How many people could have been helped by that money? How many people are hungry, or homeless, while we spend $3 million dollars to find out that the music from Jaws scares people?
First off, simply because a study doesn't make sense to you, does not mean that there is not a point and purpose behind it. Now I am not going to try to justify the examples given, simply because I am not going to take the time to try to find them and then go in depth to see if there is or is not a good purpose. Because that brings me to my second point of whether or not the study is non sensical or good or whatever, is a subjective value. Finally, if the government is giving them $1 million dollars and private donations is giving them $1 million dollars, and they only spend $.9 million on what you claim as nonsensical, then why shouldn't those who privately gave not get studied what they want studied? Numbers for example sake only.
 

Gaea

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Is healthcare a right? No. It's not defined as such in any legal documents in the US.

Should healthcare be a right? Perhaps. But that's not what the OP asked.
 

FederalRepublic

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I live in the UK and have never received a medical bill from the NHS. It's free at the point of use.

Of course you haven't received a bill. The costs are hidden from you.
 

maquiscat

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Healthcare is a service just as legal representation is a service; just mail delivery is a service; just as lawn care is a service, just as a million other things are services provided by individuals. And you have a 'right' to none of them.

Actually legal representation for criminal charges is a right that is provided, as per our Miranda rights. Unless what they are saying is that we have the right to be represented, and as an additional privilege the government will provide representation at no cost to the accused. Although how good that representation will be, given the low number of people electing to take that job, is another question altogether. Look at the kind of job public defenders do, due to their overwhelming case loads caused by a lack of people doing the job, and ask yourself do you really want your medical provider to be that overworked?
 

maquiscat

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The same way I can have a right to anything else. The government recognizes it as a right and takes steps to insure that right is protected.

So the government can force him to provide services, even should he decide to quit the field?
 

maquiscat

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This debate in pointless. When healthcare is a for profit industry, governed by for profit insurance companies and the doctors and clinicians are supplied by for profit pharmaceutical companies who all have paid lobbyists to get the government to do their bidding, what result is expected? This issue is not the only one that 'we the people' can debate and argue until we breathe our last breath. You pick the issue: defense, education, banking and anything that the government gets into is ruled by those that pay to get their business before the legislators. Back to healthcare, if the rampant fraud was seriously addressed and the penalties fit the crime the level of fraud could be minimized. Money talks and BS walks.......... We won't change anything until we change how we do business, I'm not going to hold my breath, not happening in my lifetime! Rant out!
Name for me one job that people get paid for that isn't for profit. Even within a nonprofit organization, if the individual is paid, they are working for profit. Yes there are people who volunteer and do work without pay, but obviously they can afford to do so, either because they have another job they do get paid for or someone supports them from a for profit job.

Additionally when you look at the health care industry are you accounting for all the extra money this field has to spend. We force doctors and even nurses to go through a ridiculous amount of schooling that cost a lot, so they need to charge accordingly to pay that off and hopefully before they retire. Granted the suggestion that the government paid outright for the schooling might help in that direction. But then we have other issues such as where insurance companies refuse to pay for things doctors determine the patient needs. So a doctor has to receive that compensation for his time somewhere else, usually the customers who can pay. Despite your accusations insurance companies are more a headache for a doctor than an ally. They usually have to hire at least one person, if not more just to handle the required paperwork, a cost that gets factored into what you pay. And don't forget liability insurance for those patients who are going to sue because ... well this is a lawsuit era. That also factors into your payment to the doctor. And his equipment. The companies who develop that equipment have to not only make back the money lost of failed developments but also pay liability insurance. And if they do anything where they are paid directly by the insurance company, they also have to compensate for the denied payments as well as the hiring of people to do the paperwork.

As to your fraud assertion, many claims of fraud are not persued because it can cost $100 to track down and prosecute a $25 fraud, with no guarantee of conviction. Numbers for example sake.
 

maquiscat

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The problem isn't "how we do business". It's "how we do government".

The solution is for voters to elect people who WON'T do the bidding of big-money business interests.

Don't you know? Everybody's representatives are lying crooks....except their own.
 

maquiscat

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I think that health care will move in the direction of becoming a right. I think that "good health" is a right. I think that a healthy environment is a right.

The biggest trouble with health care in my view is the cost, it's just unsustainable and that is why we're all fighting about it. Healthcare should be no more expensive that auto insurance: those insurance companies make plenty of money and as long as you're a good driver your rates stay low. So it should be with healthcare: your premiums should be based on to your previous claims for the last year. Newly insured should pay a minimum to get started and then go from there. Chronic conditions and preexisting conditions can be subsidized through medicaid.

Susan Collins was on Face the Nation this morning and I agree with her; the only way to control health care is to control the costs.

She's not going to sign the new bill btw, so that's three "nos" that the Republicans now have to deal with.
The problem is that health insurance is no longer like auto insurance, although it used to be. Auto insurance doesn't cover routine maintenance costs, breakdowns, etc. it covers catastrophic events such as collisions. Medical insurance used to cover only that until companies started offering other perks and then people got the government to require all insurance to carry those perks.
 

maquiscat

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I live in the UK and have never received a medical bill from the NHS. It's free at the point of use.

You pay for it in high taxes and government fees. You don't see it at point of use because you already paid it through your taxes. In essence you don't pay for what you use, you typically pay a lot more. Mind you that is what happens with insurance here in the US, but we at least....well used to....elect to obtain said insurance.
 

Rexedgar

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Name for me one job that people get paid for that isn't for profit. Even within a nonprofit organization, if the individual is paid, they are working for profit. Yes there are people who volunteer and do work without pay, but obviously they can afford to do so, either because they have another job they do get paid for or someone supports them from a for profit job.

Additionally when you look at the health care industry are you accounting for all the extra money this field has to spend. We force doctors and even nurses to go through a ridiculous amount of schooling that cost a lot, so they need to charge accordingly to pay that off and hopefully before they retire. Granted the suggestion that the government paid outright for the schooling might help in that direction. But then we have other issues such as where insurance companies refuse to pay for things doctors determine the patient needs. So a doctor has to receive that compensation for his time somewhere else, usually the customers who can pay. Despite your accusations insurance companies are more a headache for a doctor than an ally. They usually have to hire at least one person, if not more just to handle the required paperwork, a cost that gets factored into what you pay. And don't forget liability insurance for those patients who are going to sue because ... well this is a lawsuit era. That also factors into your payment to the doctor. And his equipment. The companies who develop that equipment have to not only make back the money lost of failed developments but also pay liability insurance. And if they do anything where they are paid directly by the insurance company, they also have to compensate for the denied payments as well as the hiring of people to do the paperwork.

As to your fraud assertion, many claims of fraud are not persued because it can cost $100 to track down and prosecute a $25 fraud, with no guarantee of conviction. Numbers for example sake.


So everything is okey dokey? I made no "accusations." And yes doctor and healthcare workers need to be compensated. You are ok with the pharma industry? The system we have now needs work and the fraud I am addressing is in the millions if not billions of dollars. The system we have needs reform, as I posted, I won't hold my breath.....
 

jet57

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The problem is that health insurance is no longer like auto insurance, although it used to be. Auto insurance doesn't cover routine maintenance costs, breakdowns, etc. it covers catastrophic events such as collisions. Medical insurance used to cover only that until companies started offering other perks and then people got the government to require all insurance to carry those perks.

The companies are the ones that were selling insurance. AAA offers free road side service, and $57 a month if you belong to another insurer. That's like maintenance. What's happened is that providers are gouging because they know insurance will pick it up.

I had my tonsils taken out in 1962; I still have the bill: $120.00; it's $3585.00 today. That's the real problem.
 

Superfly

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That didn't answer the question, but changed the premise. Please ATQ. If no one elects to be a medical provider, and health care is a right that government is required to supply, then how does the government do that?

Um - yes it did answer the questions.

Funds for medical care is provided by cutting nonsensical government grant programs.

No medical professional will be forced to be a doctor, because he or she will still be getting paid (probably more, because you know, more patients?). The doctor will continue to be paid. Just by someone other than the patient. What makes you think that doctors will no longer want to be doctors? Do you realize that doctors all across the country are against repeal and replace? They don't WANT people to lose their government insurance. If they do lose it, the doctors lose patients.
 

Mycroft

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Superfly

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First off, simply because a study doesn't make sense to you, does not mean that there is not a point and purpose behind it. Now I am not going to try to justify the examples given, simply because I am not going to take the time to try to find them and then go in depth to see if there is or is not a good purpose. Because that brings me to my second point of whether or not the study is non sensical or good or whatever, is a subjective value. Finally, if the government is giving them $1 million dollars and private donations is giving them $1 million dollars, and they only spend $.9 million on what you claim as nonsensical, then why shouldn't those who privately gave not get studied what they want studied? Numbers for example sake only.

Wastebook: Taxpayers Billed for Fish on Treadmills

Justify this. Tell me that this kind of wasteful spending is better than providing people with medical care.
 

vegas giants

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So the government can force him to provide services, even should he decide to quit the field?

No one is forced to provide any service in a single payer model
 

jimbo

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Question 1: Is access to healthcare an individual right?

Question 2: If access to healthcare is an individual right, does the government have to must provide a reasonable level of healthcare to its citizens if a citizen can not afford healthcare?

No and No.
 

The Mark

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More money that we dont have. We already spend more money on healthcare than everything else except SS which is about the same. So how much more do we need to spend to make you feel better about yourself and who you want your gov to take it from for you?

I would really like an answer to those 2 questions.

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Answer to question one - as much as necessary.
Answer to question two - take money from military spending, and consolidation of other healthcare systems into one. That is just a suggestion, but my position is that we have to ensure healthcare for everyone, it's just a matter of hashing out how precisely we do so.
 

apdst

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Yes, healthcare is a right. However, just because it's a right doesn't mean you can pass laws mandating that I have to pay for someone else's insurance.

Being a right doesn't make it free.
 

vegas giants

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Yes, healthcare is a right. However, just because it's a right doesn't mean you can pass laws mandating that I have to pay for someone else's insurance.

Being a right doesn't make it free.

But you can. That is a fact
 

Fenton Lum

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Yes, healthcare is a right. However, just because it's a right doesn't mean you can pass laws mandating that I have to pay for someone else's insurance.

Being a right doesn't make it free.

You do, you already do pay for everyone else's insurance, and all the administrative costs. You're alredy in the pool pard.
 

Fenton Lum

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Yes, healthcare is a right. However, just because it's a right doesn't mean you can pass laws mandating that I have to pay for someone else's insurance.

Being a right doesn't make it free.

Being a right in america doesn't mean or make it anything.
 
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