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Is God real?

Hornburger

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Here's my opinion...I think that we do not have enough evidence to determine the answer either way but go on as if we don't know the answer...there are too many holes in both arguments..

I consider myself an agnostic for the reasons above...however I do tend to favor with the atheists...mostly because ever since the age of cavemen people have been trying to explain the world around them and how it came to be...and the afterlife as a hope and point given to their lives...Also scientific theories and logic seem more prevalent on how man came to be with things like evolutionism...And not to mention the great parallels between religions and various "holy books" and stories/epics, and the morals presented in them with ancient, as well as modern, political law and human, not divine, attitude...and also the contradictions present inside books such as the Bible (However it could be said that the bible stories are merely representations of everything that came to be, not to be taken literally).

I was just wondering everybody's opinions on the subject of the existence of God.
 

Squawker

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Hornburger!


I was just wondering everybody's opinions on the subject of the existence of God.
I think it is important for people to believe in something outside of themselves. It makes the painful times in our lives bearable, and gives us hope for a better tomorrow.
 

Hornburger

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Yes, but shouldn't we all strive for the truth?
 

Soviet_Guy

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God may not be a person, I believe he is a symbol for all good in the world, and the answer to creation, and the after life, that's what I believe.
 

Squawker

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Yes, but shouldn't we all strive for the truth?
For what purpose? How would that benefit society in relation to a belief in God?
 

Hornburger

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Truth discourages ignorance, which breeds hatred and misery...If you never want to look for the truth, you only go by what those around you tell you and your individuality is taken from you...

oh, and I didn't see your welcome thing, that was kind of cool, thanks...hehe
 

Squawker

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Truth discourages ignorance, which breeds hatred...If you never want to look for the truth, you only go by what those around you tell you and takes away your individuality...
Truth is relative to which side you are on isn’t it? If you have been reading the opinions in the forum, there is very little trust is the sources the opposing sides present. To me the Liberals and far right Conservatives have zero credibility and that is something you can prove. The existence of God is a belief. You either believe or you don’t. Science doesn’t answer all the questions of the universe.

oh, and I didn't see your welcome thing, that was kind of cool, thanks...hehe
You’re Welcome. :lol:
 

Hornburger

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Truth is relative to which side you are on isn’t it? If you have been reading the opinions in the forum, there is very little trust is the sources the opposing sides present. To me the Liberals and far right Conservatives have zero credibility and that is something you can prove. The existence of God is a belief. You either believe or you don’t. Science doesn’t answer all the questions of the universe.
Well, I just brought up the truth thing because it seemed like you were saying people should believe in God whether or not they believe he truely exists...Truth does depend on the side you are on, but you get closer to the real truth through the analysis of evidence at hand...If you don't have enough evidence, you leave it be. Truth is a thing of probabilities. Science doesn't explain everything (like how the universe was created)...but it sure does explain alot.
 
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Tashah

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Hornburger said:
Science doesn't explain everything (like how the universe was created)...but it sure does explain alot.

Speaking as a scientist, I offer this for your consideration...


Faith begins precisely where science ends.

BTW... Welcome to the Forum!

 

milkrun

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To me, God is a business. A means for certain types of people to amass wealth while appearing to care for others. Some really do care and never become wealthy off "God's Word". Maybe they feel better making a living doing "God's Work".

Some have created fortunes in the hundreds of millions of dollars. If there is a God, these people will never see him. The Bible is full of verses about the rich never seeing God.

If a person does believe in the existence of God, the one God of all creation, it does little or no good to him in this life except to know that there is a being who maybe will help him if he really needs it. But that's not something one can count on. God is unpredictable at best and does what he wants, when he wants, for whom he wants. I doubt he does anything for anybody. That would smack of favoritism.

My personal belief is this. I'm not sure there is a God, but if I was, it wouldn't change my character. I never needed threats or promises to make me a better person. I'm as good as I decide to be because of my own conscience.
 

Hornburger

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Tashah said:

Speaking as a scientist, I offer this for your consideration...


Faith begins precisely where science ends.

BTW... Welcome to the Forum!

Yes, yes...buttt I don't know, my mind is just to logical to accept the supernatural. You can't prove God, or observe him, or measure him, or experminet to see he is there. It seems more like an idea than anything else. I feel it is impossible to see the real truth on something no one really knows the answer to...on some issues, it is better to let it be.

And Squawker-if you feel religion is the best path to improve society, you could also say that if you don't believe in God people are more apt to make their lives as full as they can possibly make it because they believe there is nothing after this life.
 

nkgupta80

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what is everyone's take on god, and who or what he/she/it is.
 

geekgrrl

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Squawker said:
Truth is relative to which side you are on isn’t it? If you have been reading the opinions in the forum, there is very little trust is the sources the opposing sides present. To me the Liberals and far right Conservatives have zero credibility and that is something you can prove. The existence of God is a belief. You either believe or you don’t. Science doesn’t answer all the questions of the universe.

You’re Welcome. :lol:
As JFK once said, "Let me say this about that." :)

First, people don't have credibility (or lack it) because they are liberal, conservative, black, white, sincere, craven, Jewish, or whatever. Credibility is something acquired over time, and a good education doesn't hurt at all in helping you acquire it. It is for others to judge your credibility. It is not for anyone to assess for themselves. Credibility is the end product of a peer-review process of the individual and the care with which they check their facts and present information. For example, I consider myself a progressive Democrat, but there are Republicans like John McCain, Lincoln Chafee and Olympia Snowe who I find to be quite credible, because they are moderate, polite, and do not appear to have a personal agenda (as opposed to someone like, say, Bill Frist or Tom Delay).

Problem is, this country is so polarized that people who used to sit down and have rational discussions/debates no longer can. People have now come to associate members of the opposing viewpoint with a lack of credibility. It's an epidemic on both sides of the aisle.

As for the existence of God being a belief, yes, it is. But the statement, "You either believe or you don't" is not strictly true. Agnostics don't know whether God exists or not. Belief has gradations. That's why so many poll questions ask if you believe something weakly or strongly or somewhere in between. Belief ranges from something like, say, "I'm not really sure whether I believe God exists or not" to "I believe I'll have another beer." From not sure at all to a conviction of absolute certainty.
 

farleft

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God does not exist.

God did not create us, we created god with our imagination.
 

Rev.

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It takes just as much faith to say science has all the answers as it does to say the Bible (or any other religious system) does.

I was a Pre-med student in college, so I studied science. And came up with questions like "If the Law of Chaos says that all matter moves toward equal and random distribution, how then did we evolve toward increasing complexity? To become more complex through evolution flies straight in the face of entropy."

Or how about "What is the statistical probability that elements spontaneously formed with the extreme orderliness that is outlined in the Periodic Table?"
 

nkgupta80

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it only applies to closed systems which life definately isnt. we interact and get usable energy from other life forms which in turn get their energy from the earth and the sun.
 

Naughty Nurse

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farleft said:
God does not exist.

God did not create us, we created god with our imagination.
Praise be! I'll second that.
 

anomaly

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I'd say that yes, some creator exists. Matter must come from somewhere, it cannot simply poof out of nowhere.
 

holocaustpulp

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Um.... god doesn't exist... at least evolution disproves ludicrous things like creationism and intelligent design (e.g., the proof of the evolution of single-celled organisms even defies the theory). The lack of any tangible being defies any "divine" existence. I don't believe in god from a personally ethical and plainly logical standpoint - for those that do, I consider them to be manifested in some beefed-up conception of authoritative dogmatism that guides one by applying absolute interpretations of reality.

- HP
 

anomaly

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But even in evolution, which I view as fact, where did the matter come from? Organic compunds can turn into organisms, that has been proven. But where did that compound come from? Where did all the caabon atoms themselves come from? Have they always existed? But then isn't it acknowledged that all things have a beginning? MAtter, say modern scientists, came from energy from the big bang. This is rather reasonable, but again, there are more things to consider. What caused the bang? Where di the energy come from? Again, until someone can make matter come from nowhere, I must subscribe myself to theism.
 

holocaustpulp

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anomaly: interesting take; though there isn't complete (yet there is highly reasonable definitive evidence) proof for the absence of a god, I see less evidence for the existence of any particular god. What's your take?

- HP
 

petrsykora39

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Rev. said:
It takes just as much faith to say science has all the answers as it does to say the Bible (or any other religious system) does.

I was a Pre-med student in college, so I studied science. And came up with questions like "If the Law of Chaos says that all matter moves toward equal and random distribution, how then did we evolve toward increasing complexity? To become more complex through evolution flies straight in the face of entropy."

Or how about "What is the statistical probability that elements spontaneously formed with the extreme orderliness that is outlined in the Periodic Table?"
To me, just because things progess towards disorder and chaos, doesn't mean they become less complicated. In addition, I believe things become MORE complex as they become more random. Let me try to give you an example that makes a bit more sense.

You open a brand new deck of cards. Now, how complicated is the pattern within the deck? Well, not very complex. For instance, I can cut the deck, look at the bottom card of one of the stacks, and determine which card comes before and after. Then I shuffle the deck and cut the cards. Now, how likely will it be for me to look at the bottom card and make the same predictions? Uhh, increasingly more difficult is really the only way I can describe it. Now, some cards will stick together so my ability to make accurate predictions isn't completely gone. Shuffle the deck again and cut the cards. The pattern has become much more complex and my ability to predict card location will be diminished even more. So, as the deck gravitates towards disorder and chaos, it has become more complex (in a sense). That probably didn't make much sense but at least I tried.

As for the periodic table, men created the table to make things more ordered. The table was designed to catergorize the contents as much as possible. But, it's far from extremely ordered. Take a good look at it. There's gaps, jumps and jagged edges. It's by no means a perfect rectangle or even a "true" table. Plus, there's the possibility that not all the elements have been discovered. And, we have created our own elements that end up filling in even more gaps.
 

torch

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My opinion is that there is some "creator" out there, but as for the religious god..that is from man's point of view, if god was seen as non-hypocritical, anti-imperialistic, good, heartwarming, and caring which god isnt in any of the religious books..people would be drawn to the "god" myth...as for does god exist...only if you want god to in my opinion..I dont need a book to tell me how to find spirituality, morals, or values
 

avory

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First, I would like to reply to what milkrun said on the first page of posts. He stated that "God is a business."

That statement is both wrong and right. It is right on the level that some people make God a business. God was a business with the Roman Catholics when they sold their indulgences in the Middle Ages. God is a business on television, where TV stations try to heighten their ratings by taking advantage of people who are looking for the missing part of them.

But let me tell you. In reality, God is NOT a business. He is a person. And all he wants is the love and cooperation of mankind.

Now, to get on to Hornberger's original post. You said that you were an agnostic, and that science seemed to make more sense because they actually offered an intellectual...scientific solution. But let's get something straight:

Evolution is not just a theory. It is a religion. It is not proven, therefore it takes faith to believe.

No, evolutionists, you have not explained the mystery of human life. You have not even scratched the surface. You think you have, but it's only an illusion. I was almost an evolutionist myself, but then I discovered the real thing.
 

JustBob

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Hornburger said:
Here's my opinion...I think that we do not have enough evidence to determine the answer either way but go on as if we don't know the answer...there are too many holes in both arguments..

I consider myself an agnostic for the reasons above...however I do tend to favor with the atheists...mostly because ever since the age of cavemen people have been trying to explain the world around them and how it came to be...and the afterlife as a hope and point given to their lives...Also scientific theories and logic seem more prevalent on how man came to be with things like evolutionism...And not to mention the great parallels between religions and various "holy books" and stories/epics, and the morals presented in them with ancient, as well as modern, political law and human, not divine, attitude...and also the contradictions present inside books such as the Bible (However it could be said that the bible stories are merely representations of everything that came to be, not to be taken literally).

I was just wondering everybody's opinions on the subject of the existence of God.

The idea that matter created itself, exploded and created an orderly process we know as the universe is far more preposterous to believe than the idea it was created by A god that resides outside the created dimension. Can anyone name one other time when an explosion has resulted in anything but disorder? Evidence favors creation-by far!
 
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