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Is free will an illusion?

Is 'free will' an illsuion?

  • Of course

    Votes: 9 27.3%
  • It's real

    Votes: 13 39.4%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 9 27.3%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 6 18.2%

  • Total voters
    33
Exactly. A God that seems surprised and disappointed when we mess up is rather odd if said God already knew we would mess up. The God of the Bible is a logical contradiction.
Not only is this God a logical contradiction, God is also the greatest mass murder that ever existed.
Logical contradiction: Gives Moses the laws, one law is "Thou shall not kill" then God orders the killing of every man, woman, child, infant, and all the animals of the Amalekites: 1 Samuel 15:3
 
Not only is this God a logical contradiction, God is also the greatest mass murder that ever existed.
Logical contradiction: Gives Moses the laws, one law is "Thou shall not kill" then God orders the killing of every man, woman, child, infant, and all the animals of the Amalekites: 1 Samuel 15:3
That makes God a hypocrite too.
 
Mankind has been given free will to make his own choices in life,
Yes and no. Freewill to make his choices in all things except for his own salvation. In that he has no freewill, because to be able to do so would mean that fallen man possesses a means to finding his own redemption. He doesn't. Fallen means fully fallen.


he is not free of the consequences of his choices..
This is also true, and seems to present a paradox doesn't it? How can man be held accountable for his un repentent fallen nature, when he has no ability to seek salvation of his own fallen will? One of the unique mysteries of the sovereignty of the creator.


.in spite of what some may claim, there are only 2 forces in the universe...good and evil...we choose one or the other with each and every choice we make...
God created the universe, SPOKE it into existence. Therefore, did God create evil too? I say not, but we know evil exists, but for what purpose does it exist. God is ALL good, he cannot sin, and cannot be evil. So, another mystery we cannot know.
 
Yes and no. Freewill to make his choices in all things except for his own salvation. In that he has no freewill, because to be able to do so would mean that fallen man possesses a means to finding his own redemption. He doesn't. Fallen means fully fallen.



This is also true, and seems to present a paradox doesn't it? How can man be held accountable for his un repentent fallen nature, when he has no ability to seek salvation of his own fallen will? One of the unique mysteries of the sovereignty of the creator.



God created the universe, SPOKE it into existence. Therefore, did God create evil too? I say not, but we know evil exists, but for what purpose does it exist. God is ALL good, he cannot sin, and cannot be evil. So, another mystery we cannot know.

Lots of myth and superstition there.
 
You typed that sentence as an automaton? Really?
In a way, yes. Yes, insomuch as I was not, in fact, a conscious agent in choosing every word or the sentiment behind the words.

This is what all the evidence shows.

Choices were made. That doesn't mean agency controlled them all, or even most or any of them.
 
In a way, yes. Yes, insomuch as I was not, in fact, a conscious agent in choosing every word or the sentiment behind the words.

This is what all the evidence shows.

Choices were made. That doesn't mean agency controlled them all, or even most or any of them.

Believe that if you wish. As for myself, I will continue to use my free will in order to make decisions regarding my actions based on the choices before me.
 
Believe that if you wish.
I will, if I follow evidence and argument over what I "wish" to be true. And it's true whether or not you believe it. That's the compelling force of all the evidence.

You will continue to use your free will. It just isn't what you thought it was. Choices are still made. Experience and input still help form those choices. As another poster pointed out, it won't make much difference in your day to day.
 
I will, if I follow evidence and argument over what I "wish" to be true. And it's true whether or not you believe it. That's the compelling force of all the evidence.

You will continue to use your free will. It just isn't what you thought it was. Choices are still made. Experience and input still help form those choices. As another poster pointed out, it won't make much difference in your day to day.

So says the automaton. Believe that if you wish. As I said, I will continue to exercise my free will.
 
So says the automaton. Believe that if you wish. As I said, I will continue to exercise my free will.
So says all the evidence. Your attempt to paint this as an authoritative claim by me discredits you and rightly leads one to suspect that you have little in the way of valid argument or evidence to present.
 
So says all the evidence. Your attempt to paint this as an authoritative claim by me discredits you and rightly leads one to suspect that you have little in the way of valid argument or evidence to present.

Ummm....YOU have not actually PRESENTED any “evidence”. As such, your post is nothing more than projection, Mr Automaton.
 
Ummm....YOU have not actually PRESENTED any “evidence”. As such, your post is nothing more than projection, Mr Automaton..

Would you like to see some? Okay. But first...

Out of curiosity, and to test your integrity and mettle... and to make sure you aren't wasting my time on purpose...


What do you suppose some of this evidence might look like?
 
Would you like to see some? Okay. But first...

Out of curiosity, and to test your integrity and mettle... and to make sure you aren't wasting my time on purpose...


What do you suppose some of this evidence might look like?

A prosecutor does not get to ask the jury what evidence they would accept. Quit wasting my time. If you have evidence, let’s see it.
 
A prosecutor does not get to ask the jury what evidence they would accept. Quit wasting my time. If you have evidence, let’s see it.
Good thing I am not a prosecutor,and you definitely are not a jury.

The question is to make sure you are not wasting my time.

So, toss something out there. What do you think some of this evidence might look like?
 
Works every time. Saves soooo much time on message boards. Those not seeking honest discussion and those not willing to consider new information or evidence are immediately identified, with this simple query.
 
Depends on how one defines Free Will.
 
Free will exists, but not in the way that most people debate about.

The only free will humans have is the free will to apply meaning to the reality they experience. You can't control events but you can control what it means to you. Then you live according to that meaning.

Everything else though.... between the natural world and its laws, our biology, our social upbringing and community influences, our culture/language we're born into, and all the different interplays which act upon us... we have very little true freedom in it.

But we have the freedom to decide what it means to us and try to act accordingly, within that meaning.

Nothing else is within our control. Control is an illusion. Even the people in power who think they are clever by controlling other people, they too are part of the system. They are bound by the same constraints of reality that every other human being is. They are a cog in the cosmic wheel. Happiness, suffering, pleasure, bliss, life, death. It all ends eventually. Nobody is above it, yet everybody can apply meaning to it. Humans are meaning machines.

That's why it's so sad to see so many people regressing to nihilism in the modern world. Many are not taking action because meaning hasn't appeared in their lives, but they are not realizing that they have the power to create that meaning. It doesn't matter if that meaning is relative. If you don't choose a meaning, or decide that life has no meaning, then that is a meaning.

Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search For Meaning" should be on every modern person's reading list.
 
Good thing I am not a prosecutor,and you definitely are not a jury.

The question is to make sure you are not wasting my time.

So, toss something out there. What do you think some of this evidence might look like?

Evidently you can't understand somewhat similar examples. Beyond that, see post #191.
 
Works every time. Saves soooo much time on message boards. Those not seeking honest discussion and those not willing to consider new information or evidence are immediately identified, with this simple query.

Except that "this simple query" is nothing but a stall tactic to hide behind. You present ZERO evidence to the jury, and then blame them for your doing so. Such irony. You come to a DISCUSSION forum and then refuse to discuss. Yeah, that's real brave........
 
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Except that "this simple query" is nothing but a stall tactic to hide behind. You present ZERO evidence to the jury, and then blame them for your doing so. Such irony.
Not at all. Just toss off anything at all. A guess. Anything. Anything that you think would be compelling evidence, to you.

How about, say, using imaging of your brain to predict a choice you will make 11 seconds before you make it. Would that cut it?
 
Not at all. Just toss off anything at all. A guess. Anything. Anything that you think would be compelling evidence, to you.

How about, say, predicting a choice you will make 11 seconds before you make it. Would that cut it?

See posts #191 and #198. I'm done with your silly games for now. I will respond if you actually have evidence to show. If not, then just keep repeating yourself without offering said evidence, if that is what makes you happy.
 
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