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Is everyone religious?

Cable

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I may need some help framing this correctly, but the gist of my thought is that we all have beliefs, values, and morals which are based on our own religion, whether it be part of an organized religion, or ones personally assembled religion.
Your religion may not necessarily include God, or even spirituality. I am thinking even atheists follow a religion, as they do have a set or morals and values that indicate to them what is good and what is evil.

This is my second attempt at getting comments from others on some issues that are on my mind lately. Based on good/evil, truth, and God.


Definition:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
 

German guy

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I'd say most if not all people *believe* in something. Certain morals, family, other people, fate, their own egos...

But I wouldn't call that religion.
 

marduc

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I may need some help framing this correctly, but the gist of my thought is that we all have beliefs, values, and morals which are based on our own religion, whether it be part of an organized religion, or ones personally assembled religion.
Your religion may not necessarily include God, or even spirituality. I am thinking even atheists follow a religion, as they do have a set or morals and values that indicate to them what is good and what is evil.

This is my second attempt at getting comments from others on some issues that are on my mind lately. Based on good/evil, truth, and God.


Definition:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
I think you are trying to cast way to broad a net here. Morals and values are not a religion, nor does your definition apply to everyone (there are other definitions for religion that come up with a quick google that are more specific it almost seems as if you cherry picked that one).

The cause and nature of the universe? I do not know for sure, I have no beliefs on the matter. The purpose of the universe? I do not think there has to be or is a purpose - but again I do not know. that is not a belief.
 

rjay

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I may need some help framing this correctly, but the gist of my thought is that we all have beliefs, values, and morals which are based on our own religion, whether it be part of an organized religion, or ones personally assembled religion.
Your religion may not necessarily include God, or even spirituality. I am thinking even atheists follow a religion, as they do have a set or morals and values that indicate to them what is good and what is evil.

This is my second attempt at getting comments from others on some issues that are on my mind lately. Based on good/evil, truth, and God.


Definition:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
I thought your other thread lead to some good discussion. I am guessing the discussion was not quite along the lines you were aiming for.

Just taking a guess about what you are looking for - is this getting close? : What guides your moral compass?
 

Aunt Spiker

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I may need some help framing this correctly, but the gist of my thought is that we all have beliefs, values, and morals which are based on our own religion, whether it be part of an organized religion, or ones personally assembled religion.
Your religion may not necessarily include God, or even spirituality. I am thinking even atheists follow a religion, as they do have a set or morals and values that indicate to them what is good and what is evil.

This is my second attempt at getting comments from others on some issues that are on my mind lately. Based on good/evil, truth, and God.


Definition:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
I draw the line when it comes to 'defining anyone's belief in life as 'a religion'' - they're just beliefs, they're just values (etc) when this is the case.

Religion is something more complex and not everyone has one.
 

ChezC3

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There is a saying somewhere that goes: "A religious person is afraid of going to hell, a spiritual person has been there and is afraid to go back."

I've said before that I believe to be a religion it must meet three criteria:

1.Ritual (A formalized set standards of symbolic gestures representing the unseen)
2.Ethics (a moral framework describing how we conduct ourselves and interact with others)
3.Ontology (the makeup or Being of God)

A spiritual person essentially holds and follows a basic concept of the latter two while shunning the first.

This doesn't mean that the spiritual can't follow their own prescribed set of rituals done on their own in their own way which provide them meaning, it is simply that it isn't a prescribed, standardization (regardless of the loose or strict interpretations of what they represent) of acts which must be followed.
 

Cable

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I think you are trying to cast way to broad a net here. Morals and values are not a religion, nor does your definition apply to everyone (there are other definitions for religion that come up with a quick google that are more specific it almost seems as if you cherry picked that one).

The cause and nature of the universe? I do not know for sure, I have no beliefs on the matter. The purpose of the universe? I do not think there has to be or is a purpose - but again I do not know. that is not a belief.
I did cherry pick this definition, mainly because I am kind of working through or studying those who claim they are atheist yet have a pretty standard set of morals and values. These aren't religion, but I think they come from it, according to the definition I posted, roughly.

You could replace self with universe. It is probably one and the same on the grand scale. That old question: Why are WE here?
 

Cable

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I thought your other thread lead to some good discussion. I am guessing the discussion was not quite along the lines you were aiming for.

Just taking a guess about what you are looking for - is this getting close? : What guides your moral compass?
You hit it pretty good RJay. The other thread worked out pretty well, and I learned some things. I hope others did too.
I find that a good discussion, even when someone plays devils advocate, helps me solidify and refine my own thoughts.
 

Cable

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I draw the line when it comes to 'defining anyone's belief in life as 'a religion'' - they're just beliefs, they're just values (etc) when this is the case.

Religion is something more complex and not everyone has one.

I think we are complex. Too complex not to have a religion of sorts. We tend traditionally to think of religion as involving God. But so many live their lives these days without God. I think religion is intrinsic to our nature. Maybe I am using the wrong word, but it's the best I've found to date.
 

spud_meister

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The defining characteristic of religion is an explanation on what happens after you die, if it doesn't have that, it's not a religion.
 

Cable

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There is a saying somewhere that goes: "A religious person is afraid of going to hell, a spiritual person has been there and is afraid to go back."

I've said before that I believe to be a religion it must meet three criteria:

1.Ritual (A formalized set standards of symbolic gestures representing the unseen)
2.Ethics (a moral framework describing how we conduct ourselves and interact with others)
3.Ontology (the makeup or Being of God)

A spiritual person essentially holds and follows a basic concept of the latter two while shunning the first.

This doesn't mean that the spiritual can't follow their own prescribed set of rituals done on their own in their own way which provide them meaning, it is simply that it isn't a prescribed, standardization (regardless of the loose or strict interpretations of what they represent) of acts which must be followed.
Your thoughts are interesting. I don't know that I agree with your 3 keys, but I like the idea of setting a basic set that fits what I am thinking.

Ritual is close, but I would make it something like "Practices"
I like ethics as one.
Values?
I like ontology, but don't think it must necessarily include God. Philosophy works

And then work out the basic types of people, like you started with the "spiritual" type.

1. Godly
2. Spiritual
3. Atheist (not comfortable with this one yet. There must be a better word for those without God or a belief in the spirit (Not the holy spirit, but a spirit inside of a man)).
4. ???
 

Cable

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The defining characteristic of religion is an explanation on what happens after you die, if it doesn't have that, it's not a religion.
I think all do that, whether they be Godly, Spiritual, or Atheist.

One of the main drivers for posting this discussion is that I have noticed in discussions with atheists and spirituals, that they have a pretty firm set of right and wrong, and believe it's based on scientific fact.
I don't believe right and wrong can come from scientific observation, only facts. We decide right and wrong, based on our religion.

Make sense?
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Definition:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
I'm an apatheist, to me the existence (or lack thereof) of a god or gods or goddess or goddesses is irrelevant. Furthermore, I embrace the idea that the universe is far too vast and complex for anybody to have a corner on how it really works, much less on what made it.

That's pretty much the opposite of religion.
 

spud_meister

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I think all do that, whether they be Godly, Spiritual, or Atheist.

One of the main drivers for posting this discussion is that I have noticed in discussions with atheists and spirituals, that they have a pretty firm set of right and wrong, and believe it's based on scientific fact.
I don't believe right and wrong can come from scientific observation, only facts. We decide right and wrong, based on our religion.

Make sense?
No. Morals come from culture, religion plays a part, but it's not the only source. You're diluting the definition of religion to make your point, and rendering it meaningless.
 

Cable

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No. Morals come from culture, religion plays a part, but it's not the only source. You're diluting the definition of religion to make your point, and rendering it meaningless.
What is the word that fits what i am saying then?
 

lizzie

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I may need some help framing this correctly, but the gist of my thought is that we all have beliefs, values, and morals which are based on our own religion, whether it be part of an organized religion, or ones personally assembled religion.
Probably in a manner of speaking, but that would be a very loosely defined term, if you refer to it as religion.

We generally all do have a certain core set of beliefs regarding right, wrong, neutral, good, and bad. That being said, it could also be that it's just culturally learned values, and doesn't really have anything to do with religion, which typically has some type of superior figure which is worshipped or revered to some degree. Religion usually has at least a certain element of supernatural or mystical quality to it, even if it's not a formally recognized religion (as my own loosely-formed practice is), so I wouldn't really call commonly accepted social values and mores practiced, religion, but I do understand why someone might view it in that manner.
 

Cable

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These are things everyone is subject to in life. Where do these come from, if not religion?

What provides the framework for differentiating good and evil or right and wrong?

What practices build or develop our personal character?

What practices build or develop our culture (societal character).
 

Goshin

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I'd say most if not all people *believe* in something. Certain morals, family, other people, fate, their own egos...

But I wouldn't call that religion.


What German Guy said.
 

Aunt Spiker

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I think we are complex. Too complex not to have a religion of sorts. We tend traditionally to think of religion as involving God. But so many live their lives these days without God. I think religion is intrinsic to our nature. Maybe I am using the wrong word, but it's the best I've found to date.
If someone wants to declare their beliefs to be a religion then that's great.

I find the idea of having a religion - whether I declare it or not - because someone else thinks I do/should to be offensive. I don't like the concept of 'belonging to a religion'.

Whatever my spiritual beliefs are: I don't want to have to define them or label them. I want to be able to change my mind and have it not matter.
 

NoC_T

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Everyone's spiritual, that describing the essence of what we are. Religion's only optional codification after the fact.
 

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3. Atheist (not comfortable with this one yet. There must be a better word for those without God or a belief in the spirit (Not the holy spirit, but a spirit inside of a man)).
That word is "Realist".
 

ChezC3

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The defining characteristic of religion is an explanation on what happens after you die, if it doesn't have that, it's not a religion.
Jews would disagree with that..
 

ChezC3

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Your thoughts are interesting. I don't know that I agree with your 3 keys, but I like the idea of setting a basic set that fits what I am thinking.

Ritual is close, but I would make it something like "Practices"
I like ethics as one.
Values?
I like ontology, but don't think it must necessarily include God. Philosophy works

And then work out the basic types of people, like you started with the "spiritual" type.

1. Godly
2. Spiritual
3. Atheist (not comfortable with this one yet. There must be a better word for those without God or a belief in the spirit (Not the holy spirit, but a spirit inside of a man)).
4. ???
Ritual/Worship/Practice

Ontology of God as we know him, theist, deist, pantheist, panentheist, Ultimate Reality, Oversoul, et al...

better? ;)
 

Dezaad

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I may need some help framing this correctly, but the gist of my thought is that we all have beliefs, values, and morals which are based on our own religion, whether it be part of an organized religion, or ones personally assembled religion.
Your religion may not necessarily include God, or even spirituality. I am thinking even atheists follow a religion, as they do have a set or morals and values that indicate to them what is good and what is evil.

This is my second attempt at getting comments from others on some issues that are on my mind lately. Based on good/evil, truth, and God.


Definition:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Atheists don't have a set of beliefs about the nature or purpose of the universe. Because atheists think such beliefs are not supported by evidence or logic, they think it is silly to construct such beliefs.
 
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