Is Democracy Increasing In Russia? Fewer Than 1 In 4 Think It Is

[Rogue Valley]

Is Democracy Increasing In Russia? Fewer Than 1 In 4 Think It Is

 

[ataraxia]

Is Democracy Increasing In Russia? Fewer Than 1 In 4 Think It Is

I don’t claim to understand what goes through the Russian mind and soul. I’ve tried- and all I have figured out is that it’s complicated.

But from what I understand, Putin is genuinely hugely popular in Russia. So the above polls may be correct, but who said they should care that democracy is on the wane there?

That democracy should be important to people may just be an unfounded contemporary western cultural assumption that is unfounded- whether it relates to Russians or middle easterners or anyone else. I am even even starting to wonder if Americans care about it much anymore either. Things like cultural/religious/ethnic/national identity, pride, and hegemony may be far more important to people. Democracy may be on its way to becoming an obsolete old idea. This seems to be a new world now.

 

[TheParser]

Of course, democracy is NOT increasing in Russia.

In all fairness to Czar Putin, maybe the majority of the Russian people do NOT really want democracy.

Russia has never known democracy, only authoritarian and totalitarian leaders, from the czars to Stalin to Putin.

Russia's bloody history is truly very sad.

(When Russians come to the United States, they thrive.)

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Is Democracy Increasing In Russia? Fewer Than 1 In 4 Think It Is

The answer is an obvious no. But than again I am not a Russian.

But even the numbers shown as a result of the poll are questionable at first glance. Do you notice this tremendous spike in 2014? This is when Russia invaded the Ukraine and annexed the Crimea. This was a widely popular move that gave Putin a lot of support. But this invasion had little to do with democracy, if anything. So here you can easily argue that people have misinterpreted the question and thought the question was; 'Do you like Putin?'.

An even bigger spike happened in 2008 when Putin played chess and maneuvered himself back into being a president in a far from democratic way. If I remember correctly, I think he did something with the constitution that would allow him to stay in power. And even when Medvedev was in power, it was often said that Medvedev was merely a puppet of Putin. Very well orchestrated. And The trumpet has already made clear that he should do something similar so that he too can stay in power longer than 8 years...

And at present he is just going around the world poisoning and killing people who oppose him.

Lovely guy this Putin...

But what I am trying to say is that just these numbers, though interesting, probably do not show the full story. In addition to this I think many people in a country like this are scared to tell the truth. They are scared. We are so lucky in the west that we do not really have to worry about things like this.

[Edit] Oh, and I forgot to mention, how silly being from the Netherlands, he also shot down an civilian airplane (300 odd people) over the Ukraine. Proven beyond doubt. Brilliant report they produced a few years back. Report And there are other reports that elaborate in more detail about the investigation itself. As in what they actually have done to come to all these findings. And how they have tracked down all that information. That is quite amazing by itself as well.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

I don’t claim to understand what goes through the Russian mind and soul. I’ve tried- and all I have figured out is that it’s complicated.

But from what I understand, Putin is genuinely hugely popular in Russia. So the above polls may be correct, but who said they should care that democracy is on the wane there?

That democracy should be important to people may just be an unfounded contemporary western cultural assumption that is unfounded- whether it relates to Russians or middle easterners or anyone else. I am even even starting to wonder if Americans care about it much anymore either. Things like cultural/religious/ethnic/national identity, pride, and hegemony may be far more important to people. Democracy may be on its way to becoming an obsolete old idea. This seems to be a new world now.

Yes, I agree it is a new world. But if you want to change what you have you should look at what is wrong and than make it better. Not worse.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Of course, democracy is NOT increasing in Russia.

In all fairness to Czar Putin, maybe the majority of the Russian people do NOT really want democracy.

Russia has never known democracy, only authoritarian and totalitarian leaders, from the czars to Stalin to Putin.

Russia's bloody history is truly very sad.

(When Russians come to the United States, they thrive.)

Hi Parser,

I kinda agree with you, but there has never been democracy in Russia, so how could they possibly know what that means? Consequently, how can they want something if they do not know what it is. And surely the Russian news outlets are not allowed to freely report to the people, so here to they are not as informed. Not enough to make a justified choice. And even if they try hard to imagine what it would be like they have surely never experienced it.

Joey

 

[ataraxia]

Yes, I agree it is a new world. But if you want to change what you have you should look at what is wrong and than make it better. Not worse.

Joey

Who gets to define what is better or worse?

Talking to, for example, some people here on this debate forum, it becomes quite clear that people have very different ideas of what is better or worse. What makes it difficult is that humans are purely rational creatures. There are a lot of complicating factors that go into their decisions of what is better or worse, including cultural identity, pride, religion, etc...

I was talking, for another example, to some Iranians who support the Islamic Republic there. I was pointing out to them that their country is an absolute economic disaster, a cesspool of corruption and incompetence, that they are now the biggest exporter of government sanctioned terrorism in the world, and they are an international pariah. I suggested that as bad as the Shah of Iran may have been, they may have been doing better as a nation back then. But they patiently explained to me that even though it may SEEM as if the Islamic Republic is not doing well right now, that is only the temporary appearance of things. They patiently explained to me something to the effect that because the Ayatollah's leadership has a special insight into God's eternal and immutable will, they were going to prevail and rest of the world will see that God's plan will unfold and eventually take effect and all will be well. What are you going to say to that?

 

[Rogue Valley]

I don’t claim to understand what goes through the Russian mind and soul. I’ve tried- and all I have figured out is that it’s complicated.

But from what I understand, Putin is genuinely hugely popular in Russia. So the above polls may be correct, but who said they should care that democracy is on the wane there?

People everywhere prefer democracy over authoritarianism.

Russians traditionally favor a strong leader like Putin, but he has altered the Russian constitution and issued a number of vastly unpopular decrees.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Who gets to define what is better or worse?

Talking to, for example, some people here on this debate forum, it becomes quite clear that people have very different ideas of what is better or worse. What makes it difficult is that humans are purely rational creatures. There are a lot of complicating factors that go into their decisions of what is better or worse, including cultural identity, pride, religion, etc...

I was talking, for another example, to some Iranians who support the Islamic Republic there. I was pointing out to them that their country is an absolute economic disaster, a cesspool of corruption and incompetence, that they are now the biggest exporter of government sanctioned terrorism in the world, and they are an international pariah. I suggested that as bad as the Shah of Iran may have been, they may have been doing better as a nation back then. But they patiently explained to me that even though it may SEEM as if the Islamic Republic is not doing well right now, that is only the temporary appearance of things. They patiently explained to me something to the effect that because the Ayatollah's leadership has a special insight into God's eternal and immutable will, they were going to prevail and rest of the world will see that God's plan will unfold and eventually take effect and all will be well. What are you going to say to that?

Hi Ataraxia,

Sorry, but did you make a typo when you wrote rational creatures. Did you not mean irrational creatures? Not trying to be a pain here mate. But I always think of people as irrational. It is very very difficult to be rational for most people.

And a talk like that such as you described must have been very interesting. I spoke to several Iranians several years back in the UAE and they said that the Shah was bad, but they loved and still missed the western lifestyle. And they added that they would much rather go back to those days than living the life they live now.

Funnily I had a similar discussion like you with a Russian colleague of mine a few years back. And he tried very hard to convince me that all was great in Russia.

Funny how things go sometimes...

ah well, I guess there is always as many opinions as people.

Joey

 

[Helix]

it's a dictatorship now.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

From a stable job to a tent: A waiter'''s homeless struggle

"... Lello left the restaurant where he’d worked for two years, unsure of what was next. He’d been waiting tables since he was a teenager. He often picked up extra shifts and could always scrimp by. He’d never had to rely on food stamps or unemployment.

But now, as he waited for Florida’s backlogged unemployment system to send money, weeks turned into months. His meager savings dried up, and he could no longer afford rent or his car. Overnight, he went from having a roof over his head to living in a flimsy tent purchased with his last $75..."

How ****ed up would be people in capitalist Russia\Ukraine, if Brezhnev did not distribute 60 million apartments...

 

[Rogue Valley]

:roll: This thread is about democracy in Russia.

God only knows what Mr. Stalin is on about.