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Is declining American patriotism a good thing?

Is declining American patriotism a good thing?


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Kobie

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A new Gallup poll just came out with what I thought were some troubling conclusions:



Let's get rid of the 4th of July then except for old conservatives. It will be just another work day for liberal Millennials. ;)

I've never understood the notion of being proud to be born somewhere.
 

Kobie

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Making SSM legal in all states, protecting the rights of homosexuals, assuring abortions rights, allowing corrupt politicians to get away with criminal activity?? Oh wait, what was the question again?

The fact that you highlight these as problems speaks volumes regarding your backwards mindset. Protecting the rights of homosexuals is bad?
 

Kobie

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"Extremely proud" is nothing more than an affirmation of extreme love, and love in this case is a good thing.

View attachment 67203806

Brainless exploitation of 9/11 aside, do you really think those firefighters ran into the towers because they love America? No, they did it because a. it's their job, and b. those are their friends and brothers in there. Not some dickwad from Oregon they've never met.

I love my city, hell, even my state, much more than I do my country.
 

DA60

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I think hardcore patriotism is for the birds.

I love my country, but I am not loyal to it...nor am I loyal to any other country/organization.

Sure, in a sporting or competitive sense I am loyal. But in terms of just about anything else - nope.

I am loyal to honor and decency. I will fight for those things. And I NEVER assume that my country's interests and what is right are one-in-the-same. I decide what is righteous - not some politician.

Plus, I have ZERO added loyalty to my fellow citizens - zip. My loyalty is to humanity. When there is an airliner crash, for example, I don't much care how many died from my country - I just care how many died.
Too many people value their countrymen/women's lives above those from other countries. That is DEAD WRONG...ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL IN VALUE. You should never value one group of decent people over another. And you should NEVER assume your countrymen/women are more decent then another's strictly because of their nationality. We are all brothers/sisters.

By the way, I did join my country's military reserves when I was young (and naive). Would I fight for my country today? ONLY IF I THOUGHT THE CAUSE WAS JUST. And ONLY I determine that for me - not the ignorant masses, the useless media or INCREDIBLY useless and corrupt leaders.

To me, patriotism is little more then a word those corrupt leaders use to get those ignorant masses to do awful things they want them to do. It's almost a bad word to me - in that sense.

I am loyal to honor first, all of humanity second and my country an incredibly distant third.
 
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RetiredUSN

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I think hardcore patriotism is for the birds.

I love my country, but I am not loyal to it...nor am I loyal to any other country/organization.

Sure, in a sporting or competitive sense I am loyal. But in terms of just about anything else - nope.

I am loyal to honor and decency. I will fight for those things. And I NEVER assume that my country's interests and what is right are one-in-the-same. I decide what is righteous - not some politician.

Plus, I have ZERO added loyalty to my fellow citizens - zip. My loyalty is to humanity. When there is an airliner crash, for example, I don't much care how many died from my country - I just care how many died.
Too many people value their countrymen/women's lives above those from other countries. That is DEAD WRONG...ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL IN VALUE. You should never value one group of decent people over another. And you should NEVER assume your countrymen/women are more decent then another's strictly because of their nationality. We are all brothers/sisters.

By the way, I did join my country's military reserves when I was young (and naive). Would I fight for my country today? ONLY IF I THOUGHT THE CAUSE WAS JUST. And ONLY I determine that for me - not the ignorant masses, the useless media or INCREDIBLY useless and corrupt leaders.

To me, patriotism is little more then a word those corrupt leaders use to get those ignorant masses to do awful things they want them to do. It's almost a bad word to me - in that sense.

I am loyal to honor first, all of humanity second and my country an incredibly distant third.

Well spoken.
 

joG

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I think hardcore patriotism is for the birds.

I love my country, but I am not loyal to it...nor am I loyal to any other country/organization.

Sure, in a sporting or competitive sense I am loyal. But in terms of just about anything else - nope.

I am loyal to honor and decency. I will fight for those things. And I NEVER assume that my country's interests and what is right are one-in-the-same. I decide what is righteous - not some politician.

Plus, I have ZERO added loyalty to my fellow citizens - zip. My loyalty is to humanity. When there is an airliner crash, for example, I don't much care how many died from my country - I just care how many died.
Too many people value their countrymen/women's lives above those from other countries. That is DEAD WRONG...ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL IN VALUE. You should never value one group of decent people over another. And you should NEVER assume your countrymen/women are more decent then another's strictly because of their nationality. We are all brothers/sisters.

By the way, I did join my country's military reserves when I was young (and naive). Would I fight for my country today? ONLY IF I THOUGHT THE CAUSE WAS JUST. And ONLY I determine that for me - not the ignorant masses, the useless media or INCREDIBLY useless and corrupt leaders.

To me, patriotism is little more then a word those corrupt leaders use to get those ignorant masses to do awful things they want them to do. It's almost a bad word to me - in that sense.

I am loyal to honor first, all of humanity second and my country an incredibly distant third.

It becomes interesting, when push comes to shove.
 

WCH

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The fact that you highlight these as problems speaks volumes regarding your backwards mindset. Protecting the rights of homosexuals is bad?

Priorities Man, priorities

Of all the things the US could have concentrated it's efforts upon, we chose these.

Personally I'm loyal to my Maker first of all, then to my family... then to my state. America comes in somewhere later.
 
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Dragonfly

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Priorities Man, priorities

Of all the things the US could have concentrated it's efforts upon, we chose these.

Personally I'm loyal to my Maker first of all, then to my family... then to my state. America comes in somewhere later.

So equal rights and basic freedom for all are not worth being priorities in your mind?

I believe your "maker" would be rather disappointed in you.


Also - the USofA has "concentrated" on many other issues as well.
 

WCH

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So equal rights and basic freedom for all are not worth being priorities in your mind?

I believe your "maker" would be rather disappointed in you.


Also - the USofA has "concentrated" on many other issues as well.

All of that was to pacify a minority of the people [and turn our backs on God] while the government ran us into phenomenal debt from which we will likely never recover. Our infrastructure is failing, poverty and unemployment are on the rise and our leaders do nothing.
 

Ikari

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A new Gallup poll just came out with what I thought were some troubling conclusions:



Let's get rid of the 4th of July then except for old conservatives. It will be just another work day for liberal Millennials. ;)

Generally, no. I think there is a problem if one is going to be blindly patriotic to the government, such that they will ignore or excuse any wrong doing. But in general, patriotism in the sense of pride in one's country and love for it, can not only be good but also reflect the People's confidence in the job the government has been doing. I think lately we've all been rather embarrassed at the path the Republocrats have taken and how far they've gone to shut the People out and our declining patriotism is due more towards those ends. And on that front, it's a pretty bad sign that aggregate patriotism is dropping.
 

American

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America is a country with culture(s). Many countries have the same thing, that's not exceptional.

Then move there, no one is twisting your arm. If there's nothing special about America to you, then go to a country that is special. Stop telling the rest of us that where we live isn't special.
 

Gaius46

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A new Gallup poll just came out with what I thought were some troubling conclusions:



Let's get rid of the 4th of July then except for old conservatives. It will be just another work day for liberal Millennials. ;)

No opinion because you've misused the word "patriotism." You've equated patriotism with pride in the country when they are different things. Patriotism is an emotional attachment to one's country and countrymen. That doesn't mean you by default are proud of everything your country does or aren't critical of your country. The "loyal opposition" is just that and are true patriots despite many people at the ends of political spectrum thinking otherwise.
 

radcen

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Why do you equate patriotism with pride in the country? They aren't the same thing. Patriotism is an emotional attachment to one's country and countrymen. That doesn't mean you by default are proud of everything your country does or aren't critical of your country. The "loyal opposition" is just that and are true patriots despite many people at the ends of political spectrum thinking otherwise.
Disagree. Patriotism IS pride. Doesn't mean you approve of everything current done, but still proud nonetheless.
 

radcen

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Well ultimately its a bit of a semantics argument. However, nationalism to me has an emphasis on national unity, particularly cultural unity. For example, a nationalist would love what they saw as American culture, American identity, what they see as American heritage, and often see a divine superiority in their nation and its culture. A patriot loves his country but more on the basis of its values and its land.
I had to ponder this. I agree that it is somewhat semantics, but I believe there are some nuances, as well.

Patriotism would be for a country, while nationalism would be for a cultural identity (as you say). The Kurds, for example, have a nationalistic pride that spreads into three different countries, but they have no country of their own to be patriotic about.

Patriotism is for a specific country, but can be shared by different cultural groups within said country. People in said country can also be nationalistic, too, so it does overlap.

I feel like that's what you're saying. I had to "talk it out".
 

RetiredNSmilin

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It might sound odd coming from me, but I said YES, declining patriotism MIGHT be a good thing, IF it makes some people THINK instead of marching in lockstep with the government line.

In his latter days, General Robert E. Lee deliberately marched out of step in any parade he was asked to show up in. He had time to look back and reflect.

I know I said, IF, and MIGHT, but those qualifiers had to be included to as to separate my post from the America haters that are rampant here too.

This is NOT the 50's anymore, and we can not longer afford to police the world and try and mold it in our own image. Even then it was wrong.

If a country looses to the commies because they do not have the guts, or will to fight, then too bad. They loose.

A random terrorist attack is bad, but let me tell you with all confidence, ....there is no way in hell any country present on this earth that can launch an INVASION of the United States and succeed. It will just be a busy day for our submarine forces. Then the fleet air arm can mop up what is left.

Even the Japanese were not that stupid, and they might have gotten a foothold.
 

Gaius46

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Disagree. Patriotism IS pride. Doesn't mean you approve of everything current done, but still proud nonetheless.

I guess we're wandering into semantic territory here. Patriotism is really love of country. I view as similar to love of one's family. You can love your kids but not be proud of them if they are complete screw ups.
 

Gaius46

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It might sound odd coming from me, but I said YES, declining patriotism MIGHT be a good thing, IF it makes some people THINK instead of marching in lockstep with the government line.

In his latter days, General Robert E. Lee deliberately marched out of step in any parade he was asked to show up in. He had time to look back and reflect.

I know I said, IF, and MIGHT, but those qualifiers had to be included to as to separate my post from the America haters that are rampant here too.

This is NOT the 50's anymore, and we can not longer afford to police the world and try and mold it in our own image. Even then it was wrong.

If a country looses to the commies because they do not have the guts, or will to fight, then too bad. They loose.

A random terrorist attack is bad, but let me tell you with all confidence, ....there is no way in hell any country present on this earth that can launch an INVASION of the United States and succeed. It will just be a busy day for our submarine forces. Then the fleet air arm can mop up what is left.

Even the Japanese were not that stupid, and they might have gotten a foothold.

I agree.


The random terrorist attack will never do us in. What will is our reaction to it and our agreeing with everything our government does in the name of keeping us "safe."
 

radcen

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I guess we're wandering into semantic territory here. Patriotism is really love of country. I view as similar to love of one's family. You can love your kids but not be proud of them if they are complete screw ups.
I think it would depend on the level of the screw ups. One can be generally proud of their kids in an overall sense even if they screw up in minor ways on occasion. But to your point, one may not be proud if the screw ups are deep and continuous. Same with patriotism, though I think one can still have a "dormant" patriotism if the country is in a period of continuous screw-ups.
 

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A new Gallup poll just came out with what I thought were some troubling conclusions:

Let's get rid of the 4th of July then except for old conservatives. It will be just another work day for liberal Millennials. ;)

“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” - Carl Schurz, 1872
 

Cephus

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“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” - Carl Schurz, 1872

Which is great until you get people who think that anything that their country does, because their country does it, is automatically right.
 
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