Is being in debt a good thing?

[presluc]

Does this apply to government spending and debt? All I got from that slideshow was that millennials aren't buying fabric softener.

It doesn't stop there go to the link or Yahoo news. there are other things the new generation isn't buying . which may cause a slight fall in profits for corporations in the future especially after the baby boomers are gone.eace

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

It doesn't stop there go to the link or Yahoo news. there are other things the new generation isn't buying . which may cause a slight fall in profits for corporations in the future especially after the baby boomers are gone.eace

I'm not going to go through that whole slideshow. It takes forever on my computer, with all the ads.

If the whole thing is about private sector debt, then this thread belongs in the Economics forum, not the Government spending forum.

 

[OldFatGuy]

If debt is a tool of diplomacy , the way America is going Americashould never have another War, but aren't we at war ?eace

80% of American government debt is held by Americans and American institutions, inclusive of pension funds, banks, investment banks, and so forth, mostly in bonds and
treasury notes, as well as US currency.

Were we to measure the value of American assets held by the American government, as we do for a business, the debt would proportionally be below 20% of the value of those assets, placing the security value of that debt within the top 5% of all American businesses. Considering that it is the goal of government to keep a 0 cash balance, the only wealthier nation is India with no debt. If you want to live with no debt, you can move to India. Of course you won't enjoy the basic standard of living enjoyed here, even by our most poor.

While most people cannot truly wrap their heads around a conceptual number like a trillion, ask yourselves, how does that trillion dollar debt effect my every day life? And then determine if it really matters to you?

 

[presluc]

i definitely don't think so. i probably could have avoided it if i had stayed single, but i wanted a family, and that generally requires debt unless you pop out of a very wealthy person. our family is worth it, and our debt is manageable so far, knock on wood.

There has always been debt in America and Americans . but it was manageable. Even at times America has been pretty much on the bottom looking up like 10/29/1929 through the 30's a most difficult time for America and Americans but 20 years later America and Americans even after a World War came out for the better. Since 2000 after 19 years where is America today? To say this is ok and everything is getting better while every 4 yrs America grows deeper in debt as do Americans is wrong. Manageable debt is one thing but when America goes trillions of dollars in debt "that's trillion with a T" something is not right.eace

 

[presluc]

We are living in a debt based society- it's good for debt holders. The indebted not so much- US citizens are indebted in perpetuity to fund all kinds of crap, so who's to blame them for taking on more debt for *stuff* they want- the debt accumulated for buying stuff can be paid off and that record of paying off can be used to help you get into more debt to buy more stuff making the world go round willingly- the perpetual debt *forced* on people is immoral- unless you approve of theft- taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft- of course we can't really say our money belongs to we the people- what we use as currency is borrowed from the fed reserve- the income taxes collected by the IRS is user fees- those user fees are debt and will never be paid off- yet the gov't keeps borrowing- in a monkey see monkey do world what do we expect?

Well ,they can always print more money or steal it from Social security " that's been done ' steal it from Fema 'that's been done' steal it from military projects" that's been done"..
So who's left maybe shakedown an ATM machine ? loleace

 

[noonereal]

To me (not young) debt is to be avoided if at all possible.
Debt is simply paying too much for something, because you want it NOW, but cannot afford it now.
Sometimes it is necessary, like a mortgage, but should be retired as soon as possible.
Each dollar in savings is worth about $1.30 in extra income, because you do not pay tax on money you did not have to earn or withdraw.
Few people really do this sort of thing, but it is possible to keep paying a car note into your savings, and drive the car for a few extra years,
until you have enough savings to pay cash for a car.

why would anyone buy a car?

good grief

 

[presluc]

Happy to discuss debt in America, but I am concerned with your premise on this.

Your ad riddled slideshow notwithstanding, by just about every measure millennials are carrying plenty of debt even if they are not buying all the things you think they should. They may have less automotive and credit card debt per capita, but they do still have the overwhelming majority of higher education debt and as a group they still top some $1 Trillion in debt.

Debt being a good thing or not is an economic discussion, and it is beyond easy to argue we are a debt for services and product oriented economic model.

We know that millennials are going into plenty of debt per capita even if not buying the type of debt you think is good or not (or whatever else.)

I'm afraid you misunderstand my premise. .
First let me say that the true millennials are college grads so after College usually they hit the work force already with a student loan hung around their necks and then there's the unemployment rate that in the 2000's hit a 40% high for new college grads. Then there was the old there's no jobs for you out here you took the wrong class in college. Some say Millennials our rebelling who could blame them? Neglected by politicians forgotten by society who could blame them .

I will say upfront I am much older than millennials, some I really don't understand but just because I don't agree with their lifestyles doesn't mean I will criticize them for being who there are , a rip off is a rip off and this group of Americans is getting riped off by loan sharks "student loans" by a government who is bent on getting all the money they can and leaving the debt for the next generation plus looking forward to Climate change, a foreign policy that's on shaky ground plus more green cards more outsourcing more competition in the work place. However in general Americans are tough I probably will not live to see it but perhaps someday America and Americans will base America on actions and deeds not power and money.eace

 

[presluc]

I am debt-phobic, I pay my credit card as soon as the balance is posted, and I paid my house off 23.5 years early. Its just how I am, I have an outstanding car loan that I am paying off quickly, but I really want to pay it completely....patience... My credit rating is stellar, and I want to keep it that way.

I congratulate your lifestyle sir , I too am a bit paranoid when it comes to bills whether it is mortgage or utility bills or car insurance all get paid as soon as they come in.eace

 

[presluc]

I'm not going to go through that whole slideshow. It takes forever on my computer, with all the ads.

If the whole thing is about private sector debt, then this thread belongs in the Economics forum, not the Government spending forum.

The whole thing is about the future for every big American corporation has a customer base part of their base is the millennials part is blue collar and baby boomers
What happens when the baby boomers are gone and last I heard the blue collar workers are on the endangered list what happens when Americans start cutting back on things like cars stock investments, beef, T.V, diamonds,fashion, fast food . . There goes the profits there goes the tax refunds there goes the retail sales. If you think this won't have an effect on government spending check the amount of stores closing in 2020. Every store pays taxes and pays employees that pay taxes.eace

 

[beefheart]

I congratulate your lifestyle sir , I too am a bit paranoid when it comes to bills whether it is mortgage or utility bills or car insurance all get paid as soon as they come in.eace

Thanks, I am pretty tight with my money, I'm doing all I can to have money for our retirement, I am getting my GF to start killing her credit card debt, much easier now for her that she moved in with me and doesn't have to rent, and she just got a new job with lots more money...

 

[presluc]

80% of American government debt is held by Americans and American institutions, inclusive of pension funds, banks, investment banks, and so forth, mostly in bonds and
treasury notes, as well as US currency.

Were we to measure the value of American assets held by the American government, as we do for a business, the debt would proportionally be below 20% of the value of those assets, placing the security value of that debt within the top 5% of all American businesses. Considering that it is the goal of government to keep a 0 cash balance, the only wealthier nation is India with no debt. If you want to live with no debt, you can move to India. Of course you won't enjoy the basic standard of living enjoyed here, even by our most poor.

While most people cannot truly wrap their heads around a conceptual number like a trillion, ask yourselves, how does that trillion dollar debt effect my every day life? And then determine if it really matters to you?

Well last I heard the true wealth of America "we are talking cash right" most of it is controlled by about 10% The same 10% that get tax cuts for paying taxes , get research grants in case they want to research something, no bid contracts, subsidies and just to keep them happy if they should run into a little red ink they can go to the government whine like a bitch and get 740 million dollars to help their corporation out , but where does the government get their money from Taxpayers working people , did they get anything out of this deal like more jobs NO , cheaper prices NO Higher wages NO,
As far as How this Trillion dollar debt effect my life ? Glad you ask, cause when there are budget cuts on Medicare , Medicaid that's my area I am retired but these are my areas it is my responsibility to deal with them. However , salary cuts hit teachers, when budget cuts hit education , budget cuts hit N A S A that's a bit of every Americans responsibility , well anybody that cares about the future of America or are only certain people to receive a good education, and I guess if an American Astronomers want to go to the Space Station or Space they can always hitchhike with the Russians , I hear China is building space rockets might try them as far as anything new America can always wait for some other nation to invent it and then copy America as gotten good at that.
As far as me wanting to move to India no thanks I remember when India was asking America to donate money to save the children guess we know where the money went huh?
Besides as a wise man once said Born in the USA and proud of it I love my country. What's being done to America and Americans by so called leaders not so much.eace

 

[presluc]

Thanks, I am pretty tight with my money, I'm doing all I can to have money for our retirement, I am getting my GF to start killing her credit card debt, much easier now for her that she moved in with me and doesn't have to rent, and she just got a new job with lots more money...

I can't understand how some people look at me and say it's easy for you to save money , like I never walked through a store and saw a big 60 in flat screen smart T.V. That I didn't want or those brand new Chryslers yeah want them but don't get them cause I have made a budget and stick by it , is it easy Hell no can it be done Hell yeseace

 

[presluc]

why would anyone buy a car?

good grief

Cheaper insurance for one thing to own something is a good thing .eace

 

[noonereal]

Cheaper insurance for one thing to own something is a good thing .eace

No. Car insurance is the same weather you lease or buy. It's based on what you are insuring not how you happen to be in possession of it.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I'm afraid you misunderstand my premise. .
First let me say that the true millennials are college grads so after College usually they hit the work force already with a student loan hung around their necks and then there's the unemployment rate that in the 2000's hit a 40% high for new college grads. Then there was the old there's no jobs for you out here you took the wrong class in college. Some say Millennials our rebelling who could blame them? Neglected by politicians forgotten by society who could blame them .

I will say upfront I am much older than millennials, some I really don't understand but just because I don't agree with their lifestyles doesn't mean I will criticize them for being who there are , a rip off is a rip off and this group of Americans is getting riped off by loan sharks "student loans" by a government who is bent on getting all the money they can and leaving the debt for the next generation plus looking forward to Climate change, a foreign policy that's on shaky ground plus more green cards more outsourcing more competition in the work place. However in general Americans are tough I probably will not live to see it but perhaps someday America and Americans will base America on actions and deeds not power and money.eace

There are various opinions on what is and is not a millennial, that is perhaps a debate for some other thread and some other purpose.

That said the unemployment rate & underemployment rate for recent college graduates has been on the decline for years, and statistically speaking are not that far behind the unemployment & underemployment rate for all college graduates. Roughly 1.5% and 2.5% behind respectfully (at least according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Department of Labor, and various Fed Reports.)

What is statistically significant is the level of higher education debt this generation is carrying in comparison to previous generations.

Within the last decade or so higher education debt and credit card debt have changed places a few times for the #2 spot in debt by type carried in this nation (behind the #1 front runner of residential debt) and just recently switched again so that higher education debt holds the #2 position solidly at some $1.53 Trillion. Over $1 Trillion of which is carried by millennials.

Who is to blame?

It is easy to blame those issuing the loan, considering them "loan sharks" saddling these kids with a ton of debt under exclusive terms right out of college.

But there is a bigger issue in how we presented to each passing generation the exclusive need of higher education for just about any role or profession in life. Right or wrong we've convinced an increasing number of kids (our population is still on the incline generation to generation over the last several decades) to compete for a somewhat stagnant number of desks in a college classroom, adding in a plethora of money from various levels of governance and private means, and finally adding in these "loan sharks" picking up the remainder. Colleges and universities knew what they were doing having more compete, taking in all those funds, and being able to do something only one other industry does consistently... costs for their services beating out inflation growth year on year.

The "ripoff" was a concerted effort across multiple parties and influencers taking us to this point we see today.

Now economists, actual economists that study behavior... not politicians playing economist, will ask the right questions. The invalid assumption by some is that a student loan decision boils down to either taking the loan or not, and that is statistically untrue based on the notion of what a higher education is sold to the student in terms of what their projected income is with and without that higher education. The "sale" of that loan is paying for itself even if the right question is asked to get to the determination of financial decisions based on constraints for and prices of that service.

You can argue all day long that is is purely bad financial decisions pressured by "loan sharks," as if higher education debt is equal to the debt of buying the latest PlayStation or Xbox or doing something so asinine as a loan against a car under outrageous terms.

And you would be wrong... again.

 

[presluc]

No. Car insurance is the same weather you lease or buy. It's based on what you are insuring not how you happen to be in possession of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you finance a car you have to have full coverage.eace

 

[presluc]

There are various opinions on what is and is not a millennial, that is perhaps a debate for some other thread and some other purpose.

That said the unemployment rate & underemployment rate for recent college graduates has been on the decline for years, and statistically speaking are not that far behind the unemployment & underemployment rate for all college graduates. Roughly 1.5% and 2.5% behind respectfully (at least according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Department of Labor, and various Fed Reports.)

What is statistically significant is the level of higher education debt this generation is carrying in comparison to previous generations.

Within the last decade or so higher education debt and credit card debt have changed places a few times for the #2 spot in debt by type carried in this nation (behind the #1 front runner of residential debt) and just recently switched again so that higher education debt holds the #2 position solidly at some $1.53 Trillion. Over $1 Trillion of which is carried by millennials.

Who is to blame?

It is easy to blame those issuing the loan, considering them "loan sharks" saddling these kids with a ton of debt under exclusive terms right out of college.

But there is a bigger issue in how we presented to each passing generation the exclusive need of higher education for just about any role or profession in life. Right or wrong we've convinced an increasing number of kids (our population is still on the incline generation to generation over the last several decades) to compete for a somewhat stagnant number of desks in a college classroom, adding in a plethora of money from various levels of governance and private means, and finally adding in these "loan sharks" picking up the remainder. Colleges and universities knew what they were doing having more compete, taking in all those funds, and being able to do something only one other industry does consistently... costs for their services beating out inflation growth year on year.

The "ripoff" was a concerted effort across multiple parties and influencers taking us to this point we see today.

Now economists, actual economists that study behavior... not politicians playing economist, will ask the right questions. The invalid assumption by some is that a student loan decision boils down to either taking the loan or not, and that is statistically untrue based on the notion of what a higher education is sold to the student in terms of what their projected income is with and without that higher education. The "sale" of that loan is paying for itself even if the right question is asked to get to the determination of financial decisions based on constraints for and prices of that service.

You can argue all day long that is is purely bad financial decisions pressured by "loan sharks," as if higher education debt is equal to the debt of buying the latest PlayStation or Xbox or doing something so asinine as a loan against a car under outrageous terms.

And you would be wrong... again.

It seems that your premise of "actual economist" asking the right questions neglected to ask a most unpopular question. Since I am at least I think so an individual nonconformist I will ask this unpopular question.
Since America is supposedly a Superpower why is it other nations and "not all bad nations" of the world have free Colleges paid for by the money the nation takes in.? These nations base intellectual education on the intelligence one has not the money one's parents has.

We have been on this action of College education for some time now where is America today debt wise educated wise?eace

 

[OldFatGuy]

Well last I heard the true wealth of America "we are talking cash right" most of it is controlled by about 10% The same 10% that get tax cuts for paying taxes , get research grants in case they want to research something, no bid contracts, subsidies and just to keep them happy if they should run into a little red ink they can go to the government whine like a bitch and get 740 million dollars to help their corporation out , but where does the government get their money from Taxpayers working people , did they get anything out of this deal like more jobs NO , cheaper prices NO Higher wages NO,
As far as How this Trillion dollar debt effect my life ? Glad you ask, cause when there are budget cuts on Medicare , Medicaid that's my area I am retired but these are my areas it is my responsibility to deal with them. However , salary cuts hit teachers, when budget cuts hit education , budget cuts hit N A S A that's a bit of every Americans responsibility , well anybody that cares about the future of America or are only certain people to receive a good education, and I guess if an American Astronomers want to go to the Space Station or Space they can always hitchhike with the Russians , I hear China is building space rockets might try them as far as anything new America can always wait for some other nation to invent it and then copy America as gotten good at that.
As far as me wanting to move to India no thanks I remember when India was asking America to donate money to save the children guess we know where the money went huh?
Besides as a wise man once said Born in the USA and proud of it I love my country. What's being done to America and Americans by so called leaders not so much.eace

Wealth is certainly not limited to cash. The case presented was and is restricted to government debt and wealth. Specifically the Federal government. A very diverse portfolio, especially land and untapped resources. What is the value of our National Park System, which uses less than 8% of Federal owned lands?

Let me know when you move to outer space. I have a guy who sells tickets for NASA flights.

Learn how to not take all that is written literally. Sarcasm has a purpose.

China is an excellent case in point. A population of almost 1.4 billion, a middle class of about 300 million. Meaning still more than a billion people living in poverty.

There are still people suffering hunger in the US. Mean teacher salaries are at an all time high in the US, more so when including benefit packages. There has been no reduction in Medicare or Medicaid budgets, payments or coverage, all of which are continuing to expand despite the political brouhaha. Yet, our military needs more expensive toys. Stop worrying about American astronomers who want to tour outer space. They will fly on Tessla, Amazon and other commercial ventures at lower costs than government can provide. No doubt Apple Inc. will supply AI software pilots. Apple Spacecare.

Now back to how that debt actually effects your daily life?

 

[noonereal]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you finance a car you have to have full coverage.eace

Come on dude, who buys a $70,000 car and does not have full coverage? (Any price car)

This is just silliness.

 

[Gdjjr]

Well ,they can always print more money or steal it from Social security " that's been done ' steal it from Fema 'that's been done' steal it from military projects" that's been done"..
So who's left maybe shakedown an ATM machine ? loleace

Printing more creates more problems since it has to be borrowed to be monetized- borrowing enslaves the borrower, in this case, anyone who participates in the US economy-

 

[Gdjjr]

Wealth is certainly not limited to cash. The case presented was and is restricted to government debt and wealth. Specifically the Federal government. A very diverse portfolio, especially land and untapped resources. What is the value of our National Park System, which uses less than 8% of Federal owned lands?

Let me know when you move to outer space. I have a guy who sells tickets for NASA flights.

Learn how to not take all that is written literally. Sarcasm has a purpose.

China is an excellent case in point. A population of almost 1.4 billion, a middle class of about 300 million. Meaning still more than a billion people living in poverty.

There are still people suffering hunger in the US. Mean teacher salaries are at an all time high in the US, more so when including benefit packages. There has been no reduction in Medicare or Medicaid budgets, payments or coverage, all of which are continuing to expand despite the political brouhaha. Yet, our military needs more expensive toys. Stop worrying about American astronomers who want to tour outer space. They will fly on Tessla, Amazon and other commercial ventures at lower costs than government can provide. No doubt Apple Inc. will supply AI software pilots. Apple Spacecare.

Now back to how that debt actually effects your daily life?

Daily life = income taxes. They are in perpetuity- that is a problem- they are a debt which can never be paid off- income taxes are, in reality, user fees- so, how does being lied to have an adverse effect on you? Why are we lied to? What's to hide?

 

[OldFatGuy]

Daily life = income taxes. They are in perpetuity- that is a problem- they are a debt which can never be paid off- income taxes are, in reality, user fees- so, how does being lied to have an adverse effect on you? Why are we lied to? What's to hide?

Why is the sky blue? Why are there politicians? The eternal questions, infernal questions.

The income tax was supposed to be temporary, to pay for a war. Yet nothing to do with the national debt. Thank those you elected.

 

[presluc]

Printing more creates more problems since it has to be borrowed to be monetized- borrowing enslaves the borrower, in this case, anyone who participates in the US economy-

Didn't say the should print more money said they could and often do.eace

 

[presluc]

Wealth is certainly not limited to cash. The case presented was and is restricted to government debt and wealth. Specifically the Federal government. A very diverse portfolio, especially land and untapped resources. What is the value of our National Park System, which uses less than 8% of Federal owned lands?

Let me know when you move to outer space. I have a guy who sells tickets for NASA flights.

Learn how to not take all that is written literally. Sarcasm has a purpose.

China is an excellent case in point. A population of almost 1.4 billion, a middle class of about 300 million. Meaning still more than a billion people living in poverty.

There are still people suffering hunger in the US. Mean teacher salaries are at an all time high in the US, more so when including benefit packages. There has been no reduction in Medicare or Medicaid budgets, payments or coverage, all of which are continuing to expand despite the political brouhaha. Yet, our military needs more expensive toys. Stop worrying about American astronomers who want to tour outer space. They will fly on Tessla, Amazon and other commercial ventures at lower costs than government can provide. No doubt Apple Inc. will supply AI software pilots. Apple Spacecare.

Now back to how that debt actually effects your daily life?

Wealth is not limited to cash , but ya gotta admit if you are a working person with a could paying job cash really comes in handy around when those bills come to your door and on April 15th.. That national park system is very beautiful just visited one myself , but no matter how beautiful it is it don't pay the rent. .

In the 60's during the space race I could have discussed outer space with you , however today since they did cut NASA funding I guess I'll wait till another country goes to another planet. I say this not because I have anything against the U.S.A.. I love my country but where is the progress where are the risk takers of America today.

Ah , sarcasm that's just my game . Now I could discuss my area of this great economic system America has but that would be complaining on my part.
So I'll keep this simple How much money does America "a capitalist country owe China "a communist country"? How many vets from Afghanistan Iraq are homeless and did their benefits get cut yes or no ? Just a few questions more how many American citizens how living below or an eyelash above poverty?

Perhaps but China does have free healthcare and if you are smart enough free college. China out sold American products in a lot of products check out any Walmart.
Some people don't like Walmart because mostly Chinese products and cheap salaries. However, is the American Auto industry any better outsource your job close down the factory because business is business. However a customer can buy from who they choose that old "be patriotic buy American "kinda left with the jobs

There are more than a few homeless in America and hungry. As far as teachers salaries at an all time high might want to research a place called Wisconsin.
I can not believe I am the only one that fact checks on this thread. Try fact checking medicare and medicaid and where they fit into the new budget?
You do know what a fact check is don't you? Perhaps you are one of those that go to one site or listen to one news station and say well it must be true?
You listen , you check you cross check you confirm.

I'm not worrying about outer space American leaders are no longer interested in reaching for the stars, they are too busy handing out tax cuts., research grants and subsidies to the rich.
As far as flying with a private corporation no thanks their track record ain't that good look at GMC , Freddy Mac , Fanny Mae that's not counting the loans and banks so I'd rather have a government controlled to tour outer space..

Well in 2007 the #1 technical advancement was an Iphone since then I ain't heard nothing but upgrades so where is the progress in America today? It's almost 2020 and it's not like American taxpayers "the ones that's working at a good salary" are not paying , it's not like America hasn't got any debt so where are the new fresh line of of the prototypes that can be moved on to the processing point???eace

 

[ChezC3]

So long as you're making good on repaying it, yes.