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Is Apple being shady with this policy?

DifferentDrummr

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Background: For some time, I've been running a side business online that has always used PayPal for its browser-based payment processing. More recently, a colleague of mine and I started working on Android and iOS apps to provide a more convenient interface for our users. Earlier this week, I finished testing and debugging the first production-ready version of the iOS app and submitted it to Apple for review. (My first submission! Yay!)

Apple requested three or four changes before they would consider the app as "meeting their guidelines." The biggest of these changes is that I have to get rid of the PayPal link in the app and replace it with Apple's own "in-app purchase" payment processor. Obviously I'll do it, because it's "Apple's house" and that means Apple gets to make the rules for its partners. What leaves me with a bad taste, however, isn't the extra bit of coding or the unnecessary complication to my business' accounting. To me, this rule seems to be anti-competitive. In a free market, shouldn't your vendor partners be able to choose any payment processor they prefer?

I'd like to know what the forum thinks: is Apple making a reasonable demand, or not?
 

Not a geek here, at all! My brother is ‘captain gadget.’ His main complaint re. Apple has been their ‘closed’ architecture. It’s my understanding that Android is an ‘open’ platform, in that almost anyone can write apps for it. Apple, not so much. I have been using Apple/IOS for ten or more years. I had a real issue with them and would have changed if I had not been so far down the road with them. OTOH, if I designed a unique operating system, I would want to monetize my work to my benefit. On an aside; as far as PayPal, I was an early user of Ebay and watching them collect more and more of the sale and then when they purchased PayPal they were even taking a percentage of shipping charges. They also used to pay interest on funds in a PayPal account, that stopped as well.
 

Apple is Apple. They will get their 30% no matter what. If I were you, I would change the Paypal link to just a weblink and on that webpage have a link to paypal. That is how many newspapers do it now days to avoid paying the Apple tax.
 
Apple is Apple. They will get their 30% no matter what. If I were you, I would change the Paypal link to just a weblink and on that webpage have a link to paypal. That is how many newspapers do it now days to avoid paying the Apple tax.

That's exactly what I did in the first build that I sent in, Peter man. Unfortunately, Apple's review team took one look at it and said no way.

I suppose Apple might give exemptions to newspapers; but I haven't heard anything about that.

Either way, you wouldn't want to be me.
 
Apple is Apple. They will get their 30% no matter what. If I were you, I would change the Paypal link to just a weblink and on that webpage have a link to paypal. That is how many newspapers do it now days to avoid paying the Apple tax.

Apple has been banning developers who play games with Apple Guidelines, when they find them or receive a complaint from a user (more likely) inclusive of subscription news services (which will be segregated within the app store when the News App is released for OSX or its successor).

The 30% is not an Apple Tax. It is payment for services to developers, including tools, safety and security, payment collection guarantees (not available from PayPal), protection from code theft and copycats (not available from PayPal), a sales partnership agreement for sales of iCloud storage in app and painless payments to the developer thereof (not available from PayPal), reputation enhancement as long as the developer adheres to the guidelines (which alone can be very remunerative) (not available from PayPal), and so on. The developer receives more than the 30% in services and remuneration were the developer to compare these avenues toward income with offerings from other platforms.

It is Apple's developer sandbox, which also protects the consumer from nefarious vendors. No other platform offers anything similar, tho Alphabet has made the attempt for Android.

Apple also offers privacy protections for developers, again which no other platform offers, and that does prevent some disgruntled maniac from showing up at your door. There's much more, including free technical support, community support forums for developers (extremely valuable because of guideline restrictions), and access to the most remunerative platform for developers, especially startup developers, with minimal developer marketing costs, again compared to any other platform.
 

Apple is apple, they are known for being a completely shady company. Are their products good? yep they are OK, NOTHING special or unique or top notch. the last apple thing i owned was one of thier first mp3 players, i had some other brand first but it was cheap. As soon as i saw that they converted all the files to what they wanted and there was a risk at losing stuff if you didnt use thier software i sold it. I got a sony instead which was better in every way to me and was drag and drop.

oh yeah there marketing is brilliant too, there are still dummies that think they invented the mp3 and cell phone, i give them credit for that but they are still a super shady company.

unfortunately i dont know what all your options are but you gotta do what you gotta do, id rather use paypal too
 

Okay, but in light of all these facts, would you say that Apple's requirement to force developers to use in-app purchases is a shady practice or not?
 


You don't like the guidelines, play elsewhere. Let us know how that works for your pockets. I have 4 grandkids writing iOS apps each pulling down $3-5k annually for part-time work as they learn, from apps that sell for 99¢. That's good money for young teenagers that they can't earn elsewhere for want of opportunities. One has pulled down close to $60k so far this year for a utility that sells for $1.99. This is his third year writing apps, including some he gives away.

Learn Apple's Swift language and you won't want to continue writing for Android. The Apple Developer libraries for Swift generic code are vast and growing. No needs to re-invent the wheel. There are tools, with more coming, that allow you to code in Swift and then port to other platforms. It is an easy learn, especially for those versed in variants of C. Interpreted languages are the future.

As well, when you see your first developer payment statements, you'll quickly learn it simplifies your own business bookkeeping and accounting. It is almost automatically converts to html formatting, and if you're using software for bookkeeping and accounting that doesn't import html, you need to change your software. It's long in the tooth.

MS's in house staff programs on Apple hardware, then ports to MS standards, adding small features that don't exist on Apple. I programmed custom apps for OSX, MS, AIX and other forms of UNIX variants and Linux for decades, mostly for my own purposes and the needs of clients, but tended to right in generic modules and gave them away in open source libraries. Writing for OSX was always faster, porting far easier than I initially suspected.

If you participate in the developer forums, you'll see very few complaints, and then mostly for a glitch most everyone is experiencing, with many work arounds offered. Getting to know which developer forums suit your needs is a worthwhile time investment. I used to do a lot of database communication work with Oracle and 4th Dimension. Without access to their developer forums to learn from, I likely would have walked aways before the first year of programming. People are generous with solutions and where to look for answers to questions. Eventually, I returned as much as I received and still pop in to assist newbies.

Good luck out there. I hope you make a lot of money.

BTW, people don't remember, but Danny Goodman created the first hypertext language. If you can find one of his early out of print books, learning his basic principles will improve your programming foundation. Danny wrote Hypercard, and Supercard for using on Macs when the MacPlus was first released, the first was given away free with every Mac. It was the first multimedia computer program anyone could quickly learn how to use. I knew musicians who used to create digital sound processing boards through a MacPlus on Hypercard before they existed anywhere else. Musicians with no computer experience, including guys like Robert Fripp, Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois among many others. Danny retired at 36, raised three kids with his wife in parts unknown. He's still sitting on 200k shares of Apple. And more of MS and Oracle. He owned part of Next, and a major part of Disney via the Pixar merger.
 
You don't like the guidelines, play elsewhere. Let us know how that works for your pockets.
As I already said, Apple's house and Apple's rules. I completely get that. And I started designing the iOS version of my site interface some time ago, because I'm well aware that 20% of the mobile market is too big to ignore.

Haven't needed to look into this before, but I'd be very surprised if my accounting software couldn't import HTML. It's just one more thing on the "crap to do" list.

I do participate in the forums, and you're right. Very few people could write iOS apps without them. Nor is being forced to use in-app purchases an impossible burden. I just wonder if it should be as orthodox a commandment as Apple wants it to be.

Good luck out there. I hope you make a lot of money.
Thank you.
 
Nor is being forced to use in-app purchases an impossible burden. I just wonder if it should be as orthodox a commandment as Apple wants it to be.

You are not required to use in app purchases. Early on, Apple rejected apps that did so. Developers demanded the option. Apple's initial concern was games, selling to kids with no parental controls.

Actually, Apple is fairly family concerned. They are very responsive when parents complain about developers ignoring boundaries the parents want in place. My grandkids advertise in app their other and each other's apps at the App Store, but do no in app selling. As they mature as business people, that may change. Right now, homework and athletics have higher priorities in their lives, by parental demand and peer pleasure for the latter. Then chores. For some, their other pursuits like music, which at times they can blend with the apps they create

One of my kids developed a free app for teachers, cataloging museum site pages offered on line, with visual samples from the pages keyed to the links, with an ability to pass the links to student via e-mail for student assignment review. Works on both iOS and OSX, syncing the data between devices as needed, and no in app purchases or advertising. This is by a girl who at the moment, wants to become a professional museum curator. A year ago, she wanted to become a professional female wrestler. Her brothers are thankful her goals have changed. Little do they know, she signed up for boxing lessons this summer. When queried about broken noses in the near future, my magic 8 ball responded "Maybe."
 
You are not required to use in app purchases. Early on, Apple rejected apps that did so. Developers demanded the option. Apple's initial concern was games, selling to kids with no parental controls.
From what I gathered in my research, developers didn't have to use in-app purchases until iOS 11 was released, after which things tightened up again. No idea why.


Maybe she can be a museum curator by day and a female wrestler by night! :2funny:
 

It's an annoying demand, and it's one that google takes advantage of and gives people an alternative to, but it's "reasonable" in the sense that it shouldn't be disallowed.

Essentially, you are looking to piggyback on the back of Apple's product, and Apple's customer base, in order to improve your relationship with your customers in order to enrich your business. Apple is willing to allow you to do that, however it wants a slice of the pie if you're going to. Thus why they want you to use the in app purchases feature, as they take a share of what gets bought via the app I believe.
 
From what I gathered in my research, developers didn't have to use in-app purchases until iOS 11 was released, after which things tightened up again. No idea why.

Maybe she can be a museum curator by day and a female wrestler by night! :2funny:

Anything is possible. She scares the daylights out of me and her brothers, but my dog loves her. My son in law already fears my daughter, now he has two women worthy of his fears.

I just took a look at the iOS developer site. Using in app purchasing is still an option, but you can't advertise sites outside the app store as sources for other applications, add ons, whatever. Some apps are one time events, with no need for in app purchasing, especially apps for the education market that are free. NASA recently listed its "It's a Changing Globe," showing photographs of earth tracking effects of ocean pollution and global warming from distant space craft, for educators and students only, free. No in app purchases. When NASA does this for the education market, they usually offer a public update with in app purchases and subscription to data updates for a price.
 

Apple has always been dicks about their products, forcing them to use their stuff
 
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