• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Alec Baldwin guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

Given what we know, is he guilty ?


  • Total voters
    61

Rawley

Sedition Apologist™ and Charter Cult Member™
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
23,785
Reaction score
7,580
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative

Josie

No Day But Today
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
50,118
Reaction score
26,432
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Baldwin is guilty of hiring the wrong armorer.

If that makes him guilty of manslaughter then every gun dealer who sold to the wrong person is as well.

How is that even close to analogous?
 

Josie

No Day But Today
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
50,118
Reaction score
26,432
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Here's a screenshot of the partial list of bullets they found:

Rust movie.png


The photos from the set showed everything was just thrown around in a complete mess.
 

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
114,314
Reaction score
24,566
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Wow, unreal....lol. Please never purchase, borrow, or use a gun for all of our sakes.
If a gun is NOT LOADED... then how is it loaded?
 

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
114,314
Reaction score
24,566
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
114,314
Reaction score
24,566
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
How do you know it's not loaded?
That was not the point. He said that the gun is always loaded. But if the gun is not loaded then how can it be loaded?
 

Josie

No Day But Today
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
50,118
Reaction score
26,432
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
That was not the point.

But to answer your question... somebody checked it.

Pretty sure that is the point.....
 

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
114,314
Reaction score
24,566
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

Josie

No Day But Today
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
50,118
Reaction score
26,432
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I edited my response as you answered that.

You always assume a gun is loaded until you check to make sure it isn't.
 

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
114,314
Reaction score
24,566
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You always assume a gun is loaded until you check to make sure it isn't.
Agreed.

It is amazing that you can articulate in one or two posts what those two can't after a dozen posts. LOL
 

Josie

No Day But Today
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
50,118
Reaction score
26,432
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Agreed.

It is amazing that you can articulate in one or two posts what those two can't after a dozen posts. LOL

I understood it from the beginning…
 

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
114,314
Reaction score
24,566
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

MrNiceGuy

Symbiotic Pnemonic
Joined
Feb 2, 2022
Messages
7,416
Reaction score
3,273
Location
The Twilight Zone
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
There's NO reason whatsoever to point that gun at another human being, period......especially on a movie set......camera angles can easily show it's not necessary.
Apparently, moviemakers for the last 100 years disagree with you, but ok.
 

MrNiceGuy

Symbiotic Pnemonic
Joined
Feb 2, 2022
Messages
7,416
Reaction score
3,273
Location
The Twilight Zone
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
So, in your opinion an unloaded gun is perfectly fine to point towards people, pull and squeeze the trigger, because after all, it's unloaded......correct?
On a movie set, yes. Just like they throw fake grenades at each other, and dangle actors off buildings.

27 people out of the 34 who have died on movie sets in the last 100 or so years died from helicopters. Like, 2, died from guns. Is it criminal negligence to bring helicopters to movie sets?
 

Moi621

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
264
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Oh c'mon
YOU hold a gun that fires
YOU are responsible!
Even VP Cheney

And do remember that "one"
ready to fire in the chamber ;)
 

Super Chief

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2022
Messages
773
Reaction score
285
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
So, in your opinion an unloaded gun is perfectly fine to point towards people, pull and squeeze the trigger, because after all, it's unloaded......correct?
This!!!!! Yes!!!!
By an actor on a movie set where the gun was maintained by a gun prop manager whose literal job it is to care for the gun, and then he points the gun at the camera because that is what he was told to do as part of the movie production? It's not reckless or particularly unreasonable, IMO.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Baldwin being an actor does not change the natural properties of real guns. There is no magic movie wand that makes something that is by it's very nature lethal, non lethal. And this is why all of us who handle guns know that ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded.

These 4 rules are so simple, and are fool proof. Follow these 4 rules and then this kind of tragedy will never happen to you:

1. All guns are always loaded. (even when they are not, we treat them as if they are loaded)
2. Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy
3. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire at your target
4. Always be aware of what is beyond your target, and do not fire when you are
 

Super Chief

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2022
Messages
773
Reaction score
285
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
.

No it doesn't - because CRIMINAL negligence, as opposed to simple negligence, is recklessness with a wilful disregard for safety - i.e., doing something knowing that one is putting another person at significant risk.
Pointing a REAL gun at somebody and pulling the trigger is not in your mind a significant risk?

Your argument that if the gun is not loaded, then that is not a significant risk. But first you would need to be certain is what not loaded, right? Something Baldwin did not do.




Civil negligence means a person failed to exercise reasonable care in their actions. Criminal negligence, on the other hand, typically involves a negligent act that is so egregious, it's likely to result in the risk of death or serious bodily harm.
Again you are failing to comprehend the levels of culpability in criminal offenses. At the top of the culpability ladder in criminal offenses is intent. At the bottom is negligence. Negligence is not necessarily defined as "egregious", it may simply be defined as a failure to provide duty or care. I think you need to look this up for yourself. I keep explaining it to you, but you keep inserting your subjective interpretation, which is not how laws are written.


Why would Baldwin think that someone handing him a gun as a prop in a scene was "likely to result in the risk of death or serious bodily harm."

Because it was a REAL gun, he knew it was a REAL gun, and REAL guns are ALWAYS dangerous.


This kind of thing has hardly ever happened before.
That doesn't matter, but it has happened. Once is too many.


I am aware of one incident in 1984 where an actor died as a result of playing Russian Roullette with a gun that had a blank loaded into it,
Really stupid thing to do. Not just to point a real gun at your own head, loaded or not. But to ignore the fact that a blank is still an explosion of hot powder, gasses, and force. Nobody would explode a firecracker next to their own skull, why would they fire a blank next to their own skull? Darwin award much?


and then The Crow where Brandon Lee was shot because a bullet was accidentally left in the gun
To be more specific, the Brandon Lee incident was the result of a 'squib load' situation. So, different than the Baldwin incident.

See wikipedia explanation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#cite_note-104

. On the other hand, there have been a total of 37 deaths in Hollywood and Television accidents in like the last 100+ years, and 24 of them were from helicopter accidents. That would seem to make, based on your logic, the use of helicopters on a movie set that causes death to be involuntary manslaughter by definition.
In the Vic Morrow death (Twilight Zone filming) where a helicopter crash killed Morrow and two child actors. The director and several others on that production were charged with involuntary manslaughter. They were acquitted by a jury of their peers, so maybe that may happen with Baldwin as well. Some sappy jurors may disregard obvious criminal negligence as what happened in the Twilight Zone film, and then Baldwin will get a pass.

I'm fine with charging Baldwin with a crime. And that being said, he is considered innocent until proven guilty. Never know what a jury may do, and does Baldwin really want to risk that? If he could accept a plea deal? In the Twilight Zone trial no deal was offered.
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
58,532
Reaction score
25,856
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Baldwin should have lots of real close friends in prison :LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:

View attachment 67433918

I like this post because it shows you keep pictures of dudes shampooing each other on deck.

Ah yes, a totally straight male.

--------


Anyways, this is silly stuff. Actors aren't checking if the tips of arrows on set really kill, they aren't checking if the dude on fire will be okay. Producers tell people what to do, and then a bunch of other people are paid to ensure it happens without there being a huge risk of anyone being killed.

Do you people really think Tom Cruise is checking every bolt on the ramps? Or that Clin Eastwood's frail ass is REALLY checking every gun he's using to kill whatever minority in whichever movie?

I hope Baldwin goes to prison cause he never did a sequel to Beetlejuice. But BOSS BABY? 2 ****ing sequels. The man needs to be stopped. He's a maniac.


😁
 
Last edited:

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
18,243
Reaction score
7,728
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
He should have checked to see if the gun was loaded with bullets before accepting the gun.
The usual protocol is that the actor is not permitted to open the action of any gun given to him or her to inspect it. That's the job of the armorer, prop master or designated director. Besides they're actors. Not firearm experts They don't want actors to be mucking with the guns. Even if they were to open them they necessarily wouldn't even know what the heck it is they are suppose to be looking for.
 
Last edited:

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
18,243
Reaction score
7,728
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Pointing a REAL gun at somebody and pulling the trigger is not in your mind a significant risk?

Your argument that if the gun is not loaded, then that is not a significant risk. But first you would need to be certain is what not loaded, right? Something Baldwin did not do.
The unique reality is that in the movie business a gun is not a real gun, or firearm, until it is loaded with live ammunition. Until then it's a prop. And it's not the actor's job to make sure that it isn't loaded with live ammunition. That is for the hired experts to determine. Even if an actor were to open a gun, which they are pretty much prohibited from doing, they wouldn't have the expertise to know if they were looking at the backend of a blank, a dummy round, or a live round. So it's kind of a pointless exercise. If an actor wants some further reassurance he or she can ask the armorer to check for it again before proceeding. But for whatever reason it seems she wasn't around to do so. But other than that they have rely on the expertise of those charged with responsibility of handling those guns and making sure that they are safe
 
Top Bottom