Is $440 million per year for military music a good buy?

[AlbqOwl]

When I was working at embassies the ability for us to have a US military band perform at diplomatic functions was always a useful tool. Sometimes it was the difference between a senior official coming or him just sending an underling. And we always had to make a strong case in order for them to come. We were required to schedule a public outreach performance in addition to any fancy official gigs we wanted them to do.

I can believe that. But it's rather pathetic when you have to bribe senior officials to do their jobs.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The base salary of an E-4 is $29,796 per year. BAS is $4419 per year. In the US Army, band members enter the service as E-3 which is a significant step up in pay and advancement opportunity as an E-1. They are paid the same as every other service member at that grade. Like every other service member they are issued their first uniforms, then given the same exact allowance that every other enlisted service member gets.

Lets not forget the $15K+ in medical care that the average E-4 uses (mostly on families), or the deferred income for those who make the band their career and thus get paid retirement, or the soldier admin costs, or the military training costs (they are real soldiers least we forget) and what ever added base support costs the members of the band rack up....all before the first dollar of band operations is factored in.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I can believe that. But it's rather pathetic when you have to bribe senior officials to do their jobs.

They expect to be kept in a certain style, and I dont begrudge them that. We need the best of the best, and we should be clear that they are valued, even though most of these guys could make a lot more money in the private sector.

 

[faithful_servant]

How can anyone predict anyone's actions? Trump says he wants to end baseline budgeting. It's within his purview as executive.

For those who are wondering how ending baseline budgeting saves us money:

"Baseline budgeting" is one of those Washington terms that sounds very dry and boring. In reality, baseline budgeting is one of the most sinister ways that politicians claim to cut spending when they are actually increasing spending. The Congressional Budget Office defines the baseline as a benchmark for measuring the budgetary effects of proposed changes in federal revenue or spending, with the assumption that current budgetary policies or current services are continued without change. The baseline includes automatic adjustments for inflation and anticipated increases in program participation. Baseline, or current services, budgeting, therefore builds automatic, future spending increases into Congress's budgetary forecasts.

Baseline budgeting tilts the budget process in favor of increased spending and taxes. For example, if an agency's budget is projected to grow by $100 million, but only grows by $75 million, according to baseline budgeting, that agency sustained a $25 million cut. That is analogous to a person who expects to gain 100 pounds only gaining 75 pounds, and taking credit for losing 25 pounds. The federal government is the only place this absurd logic is employed.

Politicians often like to have it both ways. Baseline budgeting gives politicians an opportunity to deceive taxpayers by allowing them to claim that they are holding the line on spending while providing more services.

Baseline budgeting seems like a technicality and should not be such a hotbed of contention, but every round of budget negotiations involves baseline budgeting with both sides of the aisle complaining that the other side is using the process to mask spending increases. Baseline budgeting is an issue that truly separates the deficit hawks from the budget chickens.

Eliminating the inflated budget baseline will force Congress to justify and account for increased spending instead of hiding behind automatic increases. Through commonsense accounting, taxpayers would learn that spending in Washington is not under control.

Baseline Budgeting | Citizens Against Government Waste

 

[AlbqOwl]

They expect to be kept in a certain style, and I dont begrudge them that. We need the best of the best, and we should be clear that they are valued, even though most of these guys could make a lot more money in the private sector.

I can appreciate that. But they should do their jobs regardless, yes?

 

[AlbqOwl]

For those who are wondering how ending baseline budgeting saves us money:

I have been advocating getting away from baseline budgeting and going to zero-based budgeting for decades now. I didn't realize that Trump was promoting zero-based budgeting. What a tremendous service he would do for this country if he accomplished nothing more than that plus good SCOTUS nominations.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I can appreciate that. But they should do their jobs regardless, yes?

Maybe that is how it works in your utopia, but in the real world few sign up for public service when the public makes it clear through low pay and other assorted abuses that they dont value their public servants.

 

[Hawkeye10]

A recent Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report shows that the average cost to maintain an active duty soldier is now $99,000 a year, a 31 percent jump between 2000 and 2014.

https://www.veteransunited.com/mone...ary-personnel-costs-spiraling-out-of-control/

Now maybe band members are significantly less expensive to keep than the average soldier, but it is up to military band lovers to prove the point.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Look, no one loves old school military culture more than me, it has been sad seeing it wither away, but the fact is that todays kids are not buying into it much. Also we are a failing superpower that needs to put what money we can find to good use, some of this old time super power whoopty doo needs to go away ASAP. Also these cats dont tend to be all that good, so dont give me a song and dance about how lucky I am to sometimes be able to see them.

Let's put Trump on this.

Seriously.

People don't like military anything, it seems... no matter what it is or the purpose it serves.

Whatever. :roll:

 

[AlbqOwl]

Maybe that is how it works in your utopia, but in the real world few sign up for public service when the public makes it clear through low pay and other assorted abuses that they dont value their public servants.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think a public servant should expect a lot of pomp and ceremony before they will perform the responsibilities they were elected or agreed to do. Maybe if more were concerned about doing their jobs, they would be valued more and paid better.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I'm sorry, but I just don't think a public servant should expect a lot of pomp and ceremony before they will perform the responsibilities they were elected or agreed to do. Maybe if more were concerned about doing their jobs, they would be valued more and paid better.

Where have you been, and what have you done in your lifetime?

I have seen 22 year old's that look like old men.

I was on food stamps and WIC during my first 5 years in the Navy and was responsible for millions of dollars of propulsion machinery, and the safety of the kids that worked under me.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Where have you been, and what have you done in your lifetime?

I have seen 22 year old's that look like old men.

I was on food stamps and WIC during my first 5 years in the Navy and was responsible for millions of dollars of propulsion machinery, and the safety of the kids that worked under me.

I have been very poor. And I have done pretty well for myself. I come from a very military family and know exactly what military life is all about.

I am not talking about undervalued military personnel. I am not talking about undervalued police officers or fire fighters or anybody else that helps make our society work.

The issue here is whether those who sign on for public service should be expected to do the jobs they sign on for. The issue here is having to bribe important high level officials to show up at embassies and I'm sure military bases or whatever. I am saying they should do their jobs even without all the pomp and circumstance. Is that too much to ask?

Maybe if we spent less on making high level officials look more important, there would be more money available to pay the folks who are down and dirty in the trenches more of what they are worth.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I have been very poor. And I have done pretty well for myself. I come from a very military family and know exactly what military life is all about.

I am not talking about undervalued military personnel. I am not talking about undervalued police officers or fire fighters or anybody else that helps make our society work.

The issue here is whether those who sign on for public service should be expected to do the jobs they sign on for. The issue here is having to bribe important high level officials to show up at embassies and I'm sure military bases or whatever. I am saying they should do their jobs even without all the pomp and circumstance. Is that too much to ask?

Maybe if we spent less on making high level officials look more important, there would be more money available to pay the folks who are down and dirty in the trenches more of what they are worth.

I am happy that you clarified it. And I agree with you.

 

[ludin]

Most of the time when they play no one is getting paid. Also military band members are not just performers, they are soldiers representing the USA and their branch of service.

so? that doesn't mean it doesn't cost something for them to be there.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I'm sorry, but I just don't think a public servant should expect a lot of pomp and ceremony before they will perform the responsibilities they were elected or agreed to do. Maybe if more were concerned about doing their jobs, they would be valued more and paid better.

Did it ever occur to you that there is a good reason why the North Koreans invest so much scarce resources into military pomp and ceremony? A lot of nations have done that over the years, surely you dont think it is extraneous. But does a crashing superpower get much bang for our buck to have a 35 piece band to service Ft Huachaca, a place with only 6,000 soldiers? How does that make any sense? Sure it was fun to listen to them every 4th of july at the Sierra Vista Fireworks, which is the only time I ever heard them, but a DJ would have been fine.

The United States Army | Fort Huachuca, AZ

Todays schedule for all Army bands

Monday, May 23, 2016
8:30 a.m. 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION BAND
JAZZ COMBO 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION PARATROOPERS BREAKFAST
1BCT DINING FACILITY
FORT BRAGG, NC
9:00 a.m. 1ST CAVALRY DIVISION BAND
LATIN BAND HIGHLAND PARK ELEMENTARY CONCERT
HIGHLAND PARK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
PFLUGERVILLE, TX
9:00 a.m. U.S. ARMY SIGNAL CORPS BAND
BRASS QUINTET CYBER CENTER OF EXCELLENCE AND FORT GORDON
SIGNAL TOWER FLAG POLE
FORT GORDON, GA
10:00 a.m. 25TH INFANTRY DIVISION BAND
MARCHING BAND BG MATLOCK FLYING V
WEYAND FIELD
SCHOFIELD BARRACKS, HI
12:00 p.m. 41ST ARMY BAND
MAGNOLIA BRASS RUN FOR THE WALL WELCOME CEREMONY
HARLEY DAVIDSON DEALERSHIP
JACKSON, MS
12:30 p.m. 56TH ARMY BAND
RAINIER BRASS UW TACOMA ARMED FORCES MEMORIAL EVENT
UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON
TACOMA, WA
7:00 p.m. U.S. ARMY MILITARY INTELLIGENCE CORPS BAND
POPULAR MUSIC ENSEMBLE HONOR FLIGHT
TUCSON AIRPORT
TUCSON,AZ

U.S. Army Music - Performances

Go look at the events and tell me if you think this is a good use of your money. I think about 80% could be rubbed out no problem, few people would care. THese are not high quality events, there will not for the most part be high quality military music played either, and alarmingly often there will not be much of an audience. I love military bands, I think there is in the past been a lot of reason to field military bands, but that the culture has changed, that we no longer get much out of them. I say keep all of the DC bands to play for capital events. But if the 82nd Airborne Brass Quintet did not show up as a speech is made to rename a Ft Bragg health clinic tomorrow the loss would be minimal. 20 years ago these kinds of events mattered, but now they dont.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Did it ever occur to you that there is a good reason why the North Koreans invest so much scarce resources into military pomp and ceremony? A lot of nations have done that over the years, surely you dont think it is extraneous. But does a crashing superpower get much bang for our buck to have a 35 piece band to service Ft Huachaca, a place with only 6,000 soldiers? How does that make any sense? Sure it was fun to listen to them every 4th of july at the Sierra Vista Fireworks, which is the only time I ever heard them, but a DJ would have been fine.

The United States Army | Fort Huachuca, AZ

Todays schedule for all Army bands



U.S. Army Music - Performances

Go look at the events and tell me if you think this is a good use of your money. I think about 80% could be rubbed out no problem, few people would care. THese are not high quality events, there will not for the most part be high quality military music played either, and alarmingly often there will not be much of an audience. I love military bands, I think there is in the past been a lot of reason to field military bands, but that the culture has changed, that we no longer get much out of them. I say keep all of the DC bands to play for capital events. But the 82nd Airborne Brass Quintet not showing up as a speech is made to rename a Ft Bragg health clinic tomorrow the loss would be minimal. 20 years ago these kinds of events mattered, but now they dont.

I have been to a few dozen free concerts where the city and state paid the bill. I have been to at least 50-60 fireworks celebrations where they were totally funded by the taxpayer. I have been to many St. Patrick's day parades in Boston were the taxpayer picked up the tab. I have been to two Macy's Thanksgiving parades in NYC where the taxpayer covered the cost...mostly.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I have been to a few dozen free concerts where the city and state paid the bill. I have been to at least 50-60 fireworks celebrations where they were totally funded by the taxpayer. I have been to many St. Patrick's day parades in Boston were the taxpayer picked up the tab. I have been to two Macy's Thanksgiving parades in NYC where the taxpayer covered the cost...mostly.

Ya right, covered gas for the bus and one day per diem most likely, not a significant portion of the cost of keeping the band I bet.

Do you know different?

 

[Hawkeye10]

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS“What is the typical day like in an Army Band?” Most bands meet in the morning at about 6:30 for an hour-long workout consisting of cardio or strength training exercises. Afterwards, band members are free to go home for breakfast and conduct personal hygiene. The band reconvenes at 9:00 and might have a large group rehearsal such as concert or jazz band. From 11:30-1:00 the band usually breaks for lunch. In the afternoon, small groups rehearse and band members spend time doing their additional duties. There is also time to practice individually if you are not involved in a rehearsal and have completed your duties. Of course, this schedule is often adjusted for performances which might occur during the day or if extra rehearsal time is needed for an upcoming performance. A typical day ends at about 4:30.

Introduction to us army bands

This is what we get for $100,000 per year(the average cost of keeping one soldier in the army per year excluding actually using them for combat)

 

[RetiredUSN]

Ya right, covered gas for the bus and one day per diem most likely, not a significant portion of the cost of keeping the band I bet.

Do you know different?

Yes I do. The Navy School Of Music is only a few miles from me at Little creek. I play golf with the XO every now and then.

The government also subsidizes civilian art and music, and I don't see you whining about that at all.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Yes I do. The Navy School Of Music is only a few miles from me at Little creek. I play golf with the XO every now and then.

The government also subsidizes civilian art and music, and I don't see you whining about that at all.

I am a socialist, I would not be complaining at all if this sort of thing went appreciated, but mostly I dont see that anymore. They show up, they play, almost no one cares, the military writes it off under "supporting the community" if they are playing outside the gates, if they are at the post fun run it goes under esprit de corps.....but the thing is if the people at the events dont care then we get nothing much out of it.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Did it ever occur to you that there is a good reason why the North Koreans invest so much scarce resources into military pomp and ceremony? A lot of nations have done that over the years, surely you dont think it is extraneous. But does a crashing superpower get much bang for our buck to have a 35 piece band to service Ft Huachaca, a place with only 6,000 soldiers? How does that make any sense? Sure it was fun to listen to them every 4th of july at the Sierra Vista Fireworks, which is the only time I ever heard them, but a DJ would have been fine.

The United States Army | Fort Huachuca, AZ

Todays schedule for all Army bands



U.S. Army Music - Performances

Go look at the events and tell me if you think this is a good use of your money. I think about 80% could be rubbed out no problem, few people would care. THese are not high quality events, there will not for the most part be high quality military music played either, and alarmingly often there will not be much of an audience. I love military bands, I think there is in the past been a lot of reason to field military bands, but that the culture has changed, that we no longer get much out of them. I say keep all of the DC bands to play for capital events. But if the 82nd Airborne Brass Quintet did not show up as a speech is made to rename a Ft Bragg health clinic tomorrow the loss would be minimal. 20 years ago these kinds of events mattered, but now they dont.

Was this to rebut my argument? If so, I think you didn't read my argument.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Was this to rebut my argument? If so, I think you didn't read my argument.

I used your argument as a jumping off point to make my argument. I much more often work in shades of gray rather than black and white.

 

[Southern Dad]

There are times that a venue is charged for the military band. Gwinnett County cited the reason for going to local bands rather than the military band that they had for years as costs. I don't know how much was charged but I believe that some places have to pay for the travel.


Sent from my iPad Pro 12.9" AT&T using Tapatalk

 

[radcen]

Look, no one loves old school military culture more than me, it has been sad seeing it wither away, but the fact is that todays kids are not buying into it much. Also we are a failing superpower that needs to put what money we can find to good use, some of this old time super power whoopty doo needs to go away ASAP. Also these cats dont tend to be all that good, so dont give me a song and dance about how lucky I am to sometimes be able to see them.

Let's put Trump on this.

Seriously.

I'm perfectly fine with military bands, and all that, but I was not aware there are so many. I do feel we should cut those numbers probably in half.

 

[Hawkeye10]

This form portal is provided to make it more convenient for educators to request clinicians, clinic teams, master classes and guest conductors.

Our ability to fulfill these requests is subject to availability and may be superseded by military commitments. Please ensure your request is submitted as early as possible.

If an Army band is not close to your location, you may be asked to cost share or to reimburse travel expenses. That can be discussed with the individual band working on your request.

Request a Clinician or Master Class

Yes this is only one program but it does not sound to me like much more than a token is paid to get military band members on official duty to come to your event.