• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Irrefutable evidence that Assad forces used chemical weapons

[]D e e v e s

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
163
Reaction score
31
Location
Niagara region, Canada near USA border.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
on civilians-children. The USA even has satellite video of the fire that deployed the illegal gas.


The question remains what(if anything) the West should do. Personally I doubt either side in Syria has democracy in mind for the citizens. There has been and always will be sectarian Muslim warfare and terrorism against each other.


The Attack:

Multiple streams of intelligence indicate that the regime executed a rocket and artillery attack against the Damascus suburbs in the early hours of August 21. Satellite detections corroborate that attacks from a regime-controlled area struck neighborhoods where the chemical attacks reportedly occurred – including Kafr Batna, Jawbar, ‘Ayn Tarma, Darayya, and Mu’addamiyah. This includes the detection of rocket launches from regime controlled territory early in the morning, approximately 90 minutes before the first report of a chemical attack appeared in social media. The lack of flight activity or missile launches also leads us to conclude that the regime used rockets in the attack.

Local social media reports of a chemical attack in the Damascus suburbs began at 2:30 a.m. local time on August 21. Within the next four hours there were thousands of social media reports on this attack from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area. Multiple accounts described chemical-filled rockets impacting opposition-controlled areas.

Three hospitals in the Damascus area received approximately 3,600 patients displaying symptoms consistent with nerve agent exposure in less than three hours on the morning of August 21, according to a highly credible international humanitarian organization. The reported symptoms, and the epidemiological pattern of events – characterized by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical and first aid workers – were consistent with mass exposure to a nerve agent. We also received reports from international and Syrian medical personnel on the ground.

We have identified one hundred videos attributed to the attack, many of which show large numbers of bodies exhibiting physical signs consistent with, but not unique to, nerve agent exposure. The reported symptoms of victims included unconsciousness, foaming from the nose and mouth, constricted pupils, rapid heartbeat, and difficulty breathing. Several of the videos show what appear to be numerous fatalities with no visible injuries, which is consistent with death from chemical weapons, and inconsistent with death from small-arms, high-explosive munitions or blister agents. At least 12 locations are portrayed in the publicly available videos, and a sampling of those videos confirmed that some were shot at the general times and locations described in the footage.
 
Let us hear it from Russia now.

Vladimir Putin has rejected US intelligence claims that Bashar al-Assad's regime used chemical weapons in Syria, saying it would be "utter nonsense" for government troops to use such tactics in a war it was already winning.

"That is why I am convinced that [the chemical attack] is nothing more than a provocation by those who want to drag other countries into the Syrian conflict, and who want to win the support of powerful members of the international arena, especially the United States," Putin told journalists in Vladivostok.

The Russian president also challenged the US to present its case for military intervention to the UN security council, after suggesting that if Barack Obama was worthy of his Nobel peace prize, he should think about the possible victims of any intervention by foreign forces

Syria: Putin rubbishes chemical attack claims | World news | theguardian.com
 
That statement was before the White House released the evidence.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36000.htm

"According to the source, Russia’s ambassador in the UN Security Council, Vitaly Churkin, presented conclusive evidence – based on documents and Russian satellite images – of two rockets carrying toxic chemicals, fired from Douma, controlled by the Syrian “rebels”, and landing on East Ghouta. Hundreds of “rebels”, as well as civilians – including those children on the cover of Western corporate media papers – were killed. The evidence, says the Russian source, is conclusive. – Pepe Escobar"


The Russians already gave the UN SATELLITE IMAGERY of the attack last week showing irrefutably that the attack came from the rebels held areas. Don't any of you people read?
 
Last edited:
The Russians already gave the UN SATELLITE IMAGERY of the attack last week showing irrefutably that the attack came from the rebels held areas. Don't any of you people read?

Previous BS aside, Putin has not responded to the new evidence.
 
The Russians already gave the UN SATELLITE IMAGERY of the attack last week showing irrefutably that the attack came from the rebels held areas. Don't any of you people read?
Proof? or more Putin nonsense. Today's reports still prove Assad's military to be guilty.

Syria: Shocking images show aftermath of chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds, opposition says | Toronto Star

WASHINGTON—For a world already numb from more than two years of horrific images out of Syria , this time was different.

Shocking visuals of what weaponry experts now suspect may be the deadliest chemical attack in decades are cascading out of the rebel-held outskirts of Damascus — and rapidly hardening world opinion against Syria’s embattled Assad regime.

Videos and still images show scores of bodies, many of them children, none with visible scars. Yet dead just the same, wearing blank, frozen expressions reminiscent of survivor accounts of Halabja, Saddam Hussein’s infamous 1988 toxic gas bombardment of Kurdish civilians in northern Iraq.


Weaponry experts suspect this may have been the deadliest chemical attack in decades. Opposition activists claim 500 to 1,400 were killed when Syrian regime’s chemical-laced rockets landed on Damascus suburbs.
 
Last edited:
Proof? or more Putin nonsense. Today's reports still prove Assad's military to be guilty.

Syria: Shocking images show aftermath of chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds, opposition says | Toronto Star

This was presented to the UN Security Council last week. End of story. Irrefutable. If your satellite imagery is irrefutable, then this is also, but this was first. Last week.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36000.htm
"According to the source, Russia’s ambassador in the UN Security Council, Vitaly Churkin, presented conclusive evidence – based on documents and Russian satellite images – of two rockets carrying toxic chemicals, fired from Douma, controlled by the Syrian “rebels”, and landing on East Ghouta. Hundreds of “rebels”, as well as civilians – including those children on the cover of Western corporate media papers – were killed. The evidence, says the Russian source, is conclusive. – Pepe Escobar"
 
This was presented to the UN Security Council last week. End of story. Irrefutable. If your satellite imagery is irrefutable, then this is also, but this was first. Last week.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36000.htm
"According to the source, Russia’s ambassador in the UN Security Council, Vitaly Churkin, presented conclusive evidence – based on documents and Russian satellite images – of two rockets carrying toxic chemicals, fired from Douma, controlled by the Syrian “rebels”, and landing on East Ghouta. Hundreds of “rebels”, as well as civilians – including those children on the cover of Western corporate media papers – were killed. The evidence, says the Russian source, is conclusive. – Pepe Escobar"


1. You claimed it was UN satellite images - wrong, according to your source.
2. You are citing a blogger with an anonymous source.
 
1. You claimed it was UN satellite images - wrong, according to your source.
2. You are citing a blogger with an anonymous source.

Don't waste any more money on books.
 
Don't waste any more money on books.

Don't waste any more time citing blogs with anonymous sources to counter solid evidence.
 
Do we really need to get involved? Neither side are good guys, no matter who we help we look like bad guys, and China and Russia will look better.
 
Do we really need to get involved? Neither side are good guys, no matter who we help we look like bad guys, and China and Russia will look better.

If no one,particularly the UN reacts, we should be ashamed. But as to the makeup of the two sides, it's a toss up as to the good-bad-ugly.

If the UN is incapable of dealing with the issue it should e disbanded sez I.

I still haven't seen anything to refute the claim that the Syrian government forces used poison nerve gas.

By doing so, I think that would justify some (surgical) drone response from The West.
 
What "new evidence?" The citation is from the White House and is merely an assessment which claims high confidence while saying it is unlikely the rebels did it.

The United States Government assesses with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs on August 21, 2013... We assess that the scenario in which the opposition executed the attack on August 21 is highly unlikely.

Government Assessment of the Syrian Government

How does that equate to FACTUAL "evidence?" This seems like typical propaganda...they obviously don't KNOW for sure.

People are grasping at straws, and it is all irelevent anyway because WE are NOT the WORLD'S POLICEMAN! It is not our business to interfere in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation we are not at war with...as I've stated over and over.
 
What "new evidence?" The citation is from the White House and is merely an assessment which claims high confidence while saying it is unlikely the rebels did it.



Government Assessment of the Syrian Government

How does that equate to FACTUAL "evidence?" This seems like typical propaganda...they obviously don't KNOW for sure.

People are grasping at straws, and it is all irelevent anyway because WE are NOT the WORLD'S POLICEMAN! It is not our business to interfere in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation we are not at war with...as I've stated over and over.

1. We need to send a message that the use of chemical weapons in any conflict is totally unacceptable. Whichever side used them, whether it be al-Nusra or Assad, should face military consequences.

2. I would agree with you that it's not our job to interfere in the affairs of a "sovereign nation," were it not for the fact that what happens in other nations does impact what happens here. We learned in the years preceding WWII that allowing other nations to do practically whatever they want will come back to haunt us. We don't think Syria matters right now, but just think of the dire consequences of al-Qaeda or Hezbollah getting their hands on chemical weapons. Nations don't exist in vacuums.

3. Our presence in Syria would be to counterbalance the interference of our rivals in the civil war - Russia, China, and Iran - all of whom have helped the Assad regime to some extent despite it not being "their business." If they have interfered, it's no longer us just being the "world's policeman."
 
The Russians already gave the UN SATELLITE IMAGERY of the attack last week showing irrefutably that the attack came from the rebels held areas. Don't any of you people read?
InformationClearingHouse......are you serious?
 
InformationClearingHouse......are you serious?


Maybe you could check the minutes of the UN Security Council meeting. Ya think.
 
All evidence thus far is inconclusive.
 
on civilians-children. The USA even has satellite video of the fire that deployed the illegal gas.


The question remains what(if anything) the West should do. Personally I doubt either side in Syria has democracy in mind for the citizens. There has been and always will be sectarian Muslim warfare and terrorism against each other.
What I cant figure out is why Assad would use chemical weapons at this point. Just not sure how pissing off the world and risking devastating allied air strikes helps him in any way. It is the rebels that stand to gain here, so it strikes me as completely plausible that they might have been behind the attack.
 
The refugee situation is damn near unsustainable, with estimates that 28% of the country's population have been displaced. And our solution is to make it MORE dangerous for them? Perhaps we should have acted 12 years ago when the damned sarin gas was moved into Syria in the first place instead of sitting idly by and watching tensions escalate to this point. Our focus should be on the people being attacked, not on wagging our weaponized dicks in the faces of two evil forces during the world's most anticlimactic pissing contest. We want to be the "hero" here? Focus on the refugees and let the rest destroy themselves.
 
on civilians-children. The USA even has satellite video of the fire that deployed the illegal gas.


The question remains what(if anything) the West should do. Personally I doubt either side in Syria has democracy in mind for the citizens. There has been and always will be sectarian Muslim warfare and terrorism against each other.

Just like:
- "I am not a crook"
- "I did not have sex with that woman"
- yellow cake uranium
- babies thrown out of incubators
Etc

There was no real substance to these allegations by the whitehouse... If the evidence was that strong it would be a simple matter to display for the world and might even secure some assistance in this foolish venture.
 
The refugee situation is damn near unsustainable, with estimates that 28% of the country's population have been displaced. And our solution is to make it MORE dangerous for them?
By getting rid of chemical weapons stockpiles that could potentially be used on them?
Perhaps we should have acted 12 years ago when the damned sarin gas was moved into Syria in the first place instead of sitting idly by and watching tensions escalate to this point.
Twelve years ago was 9/11 and Afghanistan. It would have been dumb to wage two wars simultaneously, especially considering Assad's hardline stance against Sunni extremism.
Our focus should be on the people being attacked, not on wagging our weaponized dicks in the faces of two evil forces during the world's most anticlimactic pissing contest. We want to be the "hero" here? Focus on the refugees and let the rest destroy themselves.

It's fallacious to portray both sides as equally evil and dangerous. The Free Syrian Army, the main rebel group which is closely associated with the main opposition (led by Western-educated folk, some of whom are Christian), was formed to protect protesters against regime brutality. Less than half of all rebels are Salafis, and less than 10% can seriously be considered al-Qaeda allies. Some of the Salafi jihadist rebels have actually begun clashing with the secular rebels.
 
Back
Top Bottom