Iraqi tribunal sentences Saddam to hang [title changed] (1 Viewer)

[Stace]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam_verdict

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Saddam Hussein was convicted and sentenced Sunday to hang for crimes against humanity in the 1982 killings of 148 people in a single town, as the ousted leader, trembling and defiant, shouted "God is great!"

As he, his half brother and another senior official in his regime were convicted and sentenced to death, Saddam yelled out, "Long live the people and death to their enemies. Long live the glorious nation, and death to its enemies!"

Some feared the verdicts could intensify Iraq's sectarian violence after a trial that stretched over nine months in 39 sessions and ended nearly 3 1/2 months ago. Clashes immediately broke out Sunday in north Baghdad's heavily Sunni Azamiyah district. Elsewhere in the capital, celebratory gunfire rang out.

He's certainly getting no less than he deserves. I'm curious as to how violent things could get in country, though, since he does still have many supporters.

Thoughts?

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

He's certainly getting no less than he deserves. I'm curious as to how violent things could get in country, though, since he does still have many supporters.

Thoughts?

Saddam's Fedayeen loyalists have never given up on once again seizing power and returning to the nightmare of a Ba'athist Iraq. Not when Saddam fled Baghdad. Not when Qusay and Uday were killed. Not when Saddam was captured. Not during the long trial of Saddam and his horrid henchmen. I doubt they ever will. However, their number is finite and they do not possess the resources to vastly increase their contribution to the current mayhem.

It was historically and politically necessary for Saddam to be tried in an Iraqi court of law. The occassion of Saddam's execution should be well documented, but discrete and not publicized. One torso photo of Saddam on his death bier should suffice to satisfy historicity. His place of internment should be anonymous and unknown.

 

[FreeThinker]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam_verdict



He's certainly getting no less than he deserves. I'm curious as to how violent things could get in country, though, since he does still have many supporters.

Thoughts?

Many supporters? The only problems were in his hometown of tikrit where he lavished his extended relatives with cash.

Islam vs Christianity is a rallying cry for insurgents in iraq, saddam is not.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Was a kangaroo trial, and had nothing to do with a real trial. It was a farce. The defense was not allowed to put up a defense, not see the evidence beforehand, the judge jad massive conflict of interest (he had been thrown in jail by Saddam and one of the defendants twice!) and there was much to interfearance from goverment sources. And the judges did not even follow thier own rules, let alone the law.. but hey.

But Saddam does deserve the death penalty thats for sure, just sad that Iraq had a chance to show it was better than Saddams Iraq, but instead it showed that it was the same or even worse and comparable to Hilters and Stalins show trials.

But at least he gonna die.

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Many supporters? The only problems were in his hometown of tikrit where he lavished his extended relatives with cash.

Although Tikrit was Saddam's hometown and the locale of his family clan (al-Tikriti), many other Sunni Iraqi cities boasted significant numbers of Ba'athists. Baghdad, Ramadi, Fallujah, Hit, Samarra, Ba'qubah, Kahmiyah, Balad, and Salman Pak to name just a few.

Islam vs Christianity is a rallying cry for insurgents in iraq, saddam is not.

Although religious/radical extremists constitute a major portion of the insurgency, they are not the sole component. Inclusive in the mix are Ba'ath loyalists, Iraqi secular nationalists who chafe at US occupation, influential tribes expanding their power base, foreign intel agents from Iran and Syria, revenge seekers, and common criminal gangs who sell their violent services.

 

[debate_junkie]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Was a kangaroo trial, and had nothing to do with a real trial. It was a farce. The defense was not allowed to put up a defense, not see the evidence beforehand, the judge jad massive conflict of interest (he had been thrown in jail by Saddam and one of the defendants twice!) and there was much to interfearance from goverment sources. And the judges did not even follow thier own rules, let alone the law.. but hey.

But Saddam does deserve the death penalty thats for sure, just sad that Iraq had a chance to show it was better than Saddams Iraq, but instead it showed that it was the same or even worse and comparable to Hilters and Stalins show trials.

But at least he gonna die.

Hmmm wonders why all the blame is being put upon the court. It couldn't be possible that Sadaam with his lengthy outbursts, and drama-laden hunger strikes had JUST as much a part in making it a "kangaroo" court, as you call it.

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Hmmm wonders why all the blame is being put upon the court. It couldn't be possible that Sadaam with his lengthy outbursts, and drama-laden hunger strikes had JUST as much a part in making it a "kangaroo" court, as you call it.

Lol. It's a leftist-European trait.

 

[FreeThinker]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Although Tikrit was Saddam's hometown and the locale of his family clan (al-Tikriti), many other Sunni Iraqi cities boasted significant numbers of Ba'athists. Baghdad, Ramadi, Fallujah, Hit, Samarra, Ba'qubah, Kahmiyah, Balad, and Salman Pak to name just a few.

And out of all those cities there was only a problem in tikrit when he was sentenced to death.

I didn't say there were no former baath members in iraq, I said saddam has no large following of iraqis. They lost their respect and fear for him when they saw him on television getting a flashlight crammed in his mouth.

Although religious/radical extremists constitute a major portion of the insurgency, they are not the sole component. Inclusive in the mix are Ba'ath loyalists, Iraqi secular nationalists who chafe at US occupation, influential tribes expanding their power base, foreign intel agents from Iran and Syria, revenge seekers, and common criminal gangs who sell their violent services.

I didn't say there was only one element of the insurgency. I gave an example of the primary one versus saddam's tiny following.

 

[FreeThinker]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Also before I forget tashah you are hot as hell and your political awareness amplifies it.

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

And out of all those cities there was only a problem in tikrit when he was sentenced to death.

So far.

I didn't say there were no sunnis in iraq, I said saddam has no large following of iraqis. They lost their respect and fear for him when they saw him on television getting a flashlight crammed in his mouth.

He has no large population support, but the hard-core Ba'athists do remain and are indeed a factor in the mayhem. It doesn't take too many to sow IEDs and chaos.

I didn't say there was only one element of the insurgency. I gave an example of the primary one versus saddam's tiny following.

I didn't say you said so. I merely articulated other various components of the large Iraqi insurgency. I clarified things a tad.

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Also before I forget tashah you are hot as hell and your political awareness amplifies it.

Awww :3oops:

ThankQ! :kissy:

 

[Stace]

Moderator's Warning:

Just wanted to note that I changed the title to reflect the change made by Yahoo.

 

[FreeThinker]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

I didn't say you said so. I merely articulated other various components of the large Iraqi insurgency. I clarified things a tad.

But you didn't say that I did say that you ..... wait ......

Nice shoes!

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Hmmm wonders why all the blame is being put upon the court. It couldn't be possible that Sadaam with his lengthy outbursts, and drama-laden hunger strikes had JUST as much a part in making it a "kangaroo" court, as you call it.

Dont get me wrong, Saddams outbursts were also a problem and frankly if in a real court of law, he would have been sanction much faster than in this one. But he is hardly to blame for the judges actions is he now?

Lol. It's a leftist-European trait.

So you are for courts where defendants dont get to defend themselvs? Courts where the judges are former "criminals", as in people convicted and punished under the very regime that they are putting on trial? Where the rules and laws set in place for said court are not followed? Where the goverment steps in when its not satisfied? Ever heard of the seperation of goverment and the judicial?

When Saddam was arrested, the US and its coalition and the Iraqi powerbrokers all said that Saddam would get a fair trial, something his victims did not get. What did we end with.. exactly the same crap Saddam gave many of his victims (those that did get a trial). Iraq had a chance to show a difference between Saddam and the new Iraq, a difference between the rest of the Arab world and a new "democratic" Iraq.. and in the end its just more of the old ways.

 

[CurrentAffairs]

I propose a lottery and the winner gets to pull the lever that removes the floor under his feet.

 

[FreeThinker]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

When Saddam was arrested, the US and its coalition and the Iraqi powerbrokers all said that Saddam would get a fair trial, something his victims did not get. What did we end with.. exactly the same crap Saddam gave many of his victims (those that did get a trial). Iraq had a chance to show a difference between Saddam and the new Iraq, a difference between the rest of the Arab world and a new "democratic" Iraq.. and in the end its just more of the old ways.

185 death warrants for all the men over the age of 14 in the village, all signed by saddam himself.

What, exactly, was unfair?

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

But you didn't say that I did say that you ..... wait ......

Nice shoes!

Thanx hun. I've been informed the ankles are rather nice also lol

 

[danarhea]

Moderator's Warning:

Just wanted to note that I changed the title to reflect the change made by Yahoo.

Under the radar in all of this is history, and I am surprised that this hasnt already been noted.....

This is the first time in history that a DP moderator has warned herself. LOL

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

185 death warrants for all the men over the age of 14 in the village, all signed by saddam himself.

What, exactly, was unfair?

What I mean is that the trial it self, not the evidence or the result, but the way the trial was done, was unfair and no better than trials under Saddam or Stalin. When he was arrested, the coalition and Iraqi goverment promised a fair trial and in the end we did not get it.

The judge in the case was replaced with a guy who was in Saddams jails twice.. conflict of interest there?

The defense lawyers were kicked out several times for pointing out procedual flaws and errors and instances where the court went against the law itself.

The defense was not allowed to see the evidence beforehand and could barely if at all mount a defense. This is how Stalin did it.. when accused were not allowed to hear the charges against them, let alone the evidence before they were put before a judge and convicted.

While I could give a rats *** about Saddams defense, on principle a brutal mass murder should get the same fair trial as the pedofile, murder or shop lifter, and Saddam did not.

If you dont have a fair trial, then the result can be cast doubt on. Who knows if what Saddam did in this instance (after an assasination attempt on him) was against the law at the time or not? We will never know as that part of the defense was never heard or allowed. How would you like to be tried for something when you were not allowed to prove your innocence?

Saddam deserves whatever is coming to him, maybe not for this act, but there are plenty other stuff he did, that deserves him being executed several times over.

 

[debate_junkie]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Dont get me wrong, Saddams outbursts were also a problem and frankly if in a real court of law, he would have been sanction much faster than in this one. But he is hardly to blame for the judges actions is he now?



So you are for courts where defendants dont get to defend themselvs? Courts where the judges are former "criminals", as in people convicted and punished under the very regime that they are putting on trial? Where the rules and laws set in place for said court are not followed? Where the goverment steps in when its not satisfied? Ever heard of the seperation of goverment and the judicial?

When Saddam was arrested, the US and its coalition and the Iraqi powerbrokers all said that Saddam would get a fair trial, something his victims did not get. What did we end with.. exactly the same crap Saddam gave many of his victims (those that did get a trial). Iraq had a chance to show a difference between Saddam and the new Iraq, a difference between the rest of the Arab world and a new "democratic" Iraq.. and in the end its just more of the old ways.

I think what you're failing to remember, is that in Sadaam's day, anyone who opposed him, or his dictatorship, was a criminal. Anyone who did not rule in his favor, bow to him as President/King, whatever the heck he called himself, was a criminal. So perhaps if you could enlighten why you feel so strongly that it was unfair for a "criminal" to be the judge. Perhaps, he ruled in favor of a little guy (wow, I guess that is a crime, isn't it?)

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

What I mean is that the trial it self, not the evidence or the result, but the way the trial was done, was unfair and no better than trials under Saddam or Stalin. When he was arrested, the coalition and Iraqi goverment promised a fair trial and in the end we did not get it.

We? I believe he got a fair trial. Other posters on this thread believe he got a fair trial. We? To my knowledge, no nation or international organization has lodged judicial complaints about this trial.

The judge in the case was replaced with a guy who was in Saddams jails twice.. conflict of interest there?

Do you possess any expertise in Iraqi law? Why was the original judge replaced? Any clue?

The defense lawyers were kicked out several times for pointing out procedual flaws and errors and instances where the court went against the law itself.

Because Saddam was convicted of a capital crime, the trial will be reviewed by a higher court.

The defense was not allowed to see the evidence beforehand and could barely if at all mount a defense. This is how Stalin did it.. when accused were not allowed to hear the charges against them, let alone the evidence before they were put before a judge and convicted.

Iraqi government documents were presented in court which verified that Saddam ordered the murders as retribution for a failed assassination attampt. Former Iraqi soldiers involved in the liquidation operation testified that it was done on the direct orders from Saddam. Many trial witnesses had to testify incognito because of death threats from Saddam loyalists. If I remember correctly, even a Saddam defense attorney was murdered during the course of this trial.

While I could give a rats *** about Saddams defense, on principle a brutal mass murder should get the same fair trial as the pedofile, murder or shop lifter, and Saddam did not.

Strictly your opinion.

If you dont have a fair trial, then the result can be cast doubt on. Who knows if what Saddam did in this instance (after an assasination attempt on him) was against the law at the time or not? We will never know as that part of the defense was never heard or allowed. How would you like to be tried for something when you were not allowed to prove your innocence?

Perhaps you are not aware of this, but executing all males over 14 in a village is a horrible criminality. Did any of the victims here enjoy a trial?

Saddam deserves whatever is coming to him, maybe not for this act, but there are plenty other stuff he did, that deserves him being executed several times over.

The evidence in this particular case is undeniable and overwhelming. That is precisely why it was selected to be prosecuted first among a large litany of Saddam's crimes.

 

[FreeThinker]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

What I mean is that the trial it self, not the evidence or the result, but the way the trial was done, was unfair and no better than trials under Saddam or Stalin. When he was arrested, the coalition and Iraqi goverment promised a fair trial and in the end we did not get it.

The judge in the case was replaced with a guy who was in Saddams jails twice.. conflict of interest there?

The defense lawyers were kicked out several times for pointing out procedual flaws and errors and instances where the court went against the law itself.

The defense was not allowed to see the evidence beforehand and could barely if at all mount a defense. This is how Stalin did it.. when accused were not allowed to hear the charges against them, let alone the evidence before they were put before a judge and convicted.

While I could give a rats *** about Saddams defense, on principle a brutal mass murder should get the same fair trial as the pedofile, murder or shop lifter, and Saddam did not.

If you dont have a fair trial, then the result can be cast doubt on. Who knows if what Saddam did in this instance (after an assasination attempt on him) was against the law at the time or not? We will never know as that part of the defense was never heard or allowed. How would you like to be tried for something when you were not allowed to prove your innocence?

Saddam deserves whatever is coming to him, maybe not for this act, but there are plenty other stuff he did, that deserves him being executed several times over.

T E R R O R I S T




just kidding. point taken.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

We? I believe he got a fair trial. Other posters on this thread believe he got a fair trial. We? To my knowledge, no nation or international organization has lodged judicial complaints about this trial.

Of course they wount do that he is after all a mass murderer and showing any "sympathy" would create an outcry. But on principle they should, just as countries are critical of elections and countries with the death penalty.. on principle.. but as we all know, principle is ignored in the high flying world of partisan politics.

Do you possess any expertise in Iraqi law? Why was the original judge replaced? Any clue?

The judge was replaced/quit because of goverment interfearance. And no I am no expert on Iraqi law, however most experts I have heard about (from biased and non biased sources, from Iraqi lawyers and Iraqi Judical experts) have been extremely critical of how the whole trial has been run.

Because Saddam was convicted of a capital crime, the trial will be reviewed by a higher court.

No it wount, it will be reviewed by an appeal court of more judges and the guility verdict will not be put in question, only the sentence.

Iraqi government documents were presented in court which verified that Saddam ordered the murders as retribution for a failed assassination attampt. Former Iraqi soldiers involved in the liquidation operation testified that it was done on the direct orders from Saddam. Many trial witnesses had to testify incognito because of death threats from Saddam loyalists. If I remember correctly, even a Saddam defense attorney was murdered during the course of this trial.

I am not disputing the evidence for peak sake. I agree with the judgement, just not on how it was reached.

Perhaps you are not aware of this, but executing all males over 14 in a village is a horrible criminality. Did any of the victims here enjoy a trial?

As I have stated, I am not disputing the evidence or the crime or the judgement, but how am critical of how the judgement was reached.

The evidence in this particular case is undeniable and overwhelming. That is precisely why it was selected to be prosecuted first among a large litany of Saddam's crimes.

Read above a few times and get it into your thick head.

 

[Tashah]

Re: Saddam, 2 others sentenced to death

Read above a few times and get it into your thick head.

On the contrary, it is your noggin that exhibits the chronic density syndrome.

 

[talloulou]

I don't like the death penalty. Having a government "hang" it's criminals is barbaric and vile. I hope it's not a public spectacle where he is paraded through the streets and then hung in the public square with women and children cheering gleefully like savages.