Montecresto
DP Veteran
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Again, Bush didn't create a vacuum. The power position was filled by US troops.
And the vacuum created by removing Hussein from power sucked in al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists that have in the course of time grown into a formidable force menacing the Middle East. Bush's failure that once again innocent civilians are suffering for.
That would have to deliberately overlook the fact that Saddam Hussein himself was a terrorist, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and seeking WMD while doing so.There was no fighters, no terrorists in Iraq until Bush stepped foot in there.
A vacuum is an absence. US forces were on the ground when Saddam fell. The power vacuum was created when the US forces left.
Out of curiosity, do you think the US should have used Saddam's techniques to oppress the population in the name of stability?
And the vacuum created by removing Hussein from power sucked in al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists that have in the course of time grown into a formidable force menacing the Middle East. Bush's failure that once again innocent civilians are suffering for.
That would have to deliberately overlook the fact that Saddam Hussein himself was a terrorist, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and seeking WMD while doing so.
You loyalist never give up. Yep the vacuum was when Obama sucked out all our troops and left Iraq. Now the Dumbass is back in and loosing, what an idiot. Of course he lost Iraq along with all our blood and treasure. And he lost Afghanistan with all it's blood and treasure. The middle east is in flames. Iran is building nuks and traveling all over the middle east. N Korea spits in Obama's eye, as does Iran and Russia, of course there is no Red Line. Talk about leaving another vacuum, Obama takes out Gadhafi and then runs leaving a mess behind. The so called Russia reset button was a disaster. The the list goes on. I give Obama a F- which equals 100% failure.
That would have to deliberately overlook the fact that Saddam Hussein himself was a terrorist, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and seeking WMD while doing so.
Calling the president all sorts of names doesn't hurt my feelings. I really don't care. Creating environments that are beneficial to Islamic extremists does, and so ill be reminding you of that.
Please read the posts before you respond.Killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in response to Hussein doing the same is Bush logic. And, Hussein was never, ever a threat to the U.S., and he had neither the inclination nor the ability to produce a mushroom cloud over a U.S. City, all the fearmongering notwithstanding.
Yes, the Germans had given a great deal of information on meetings between Saddam and terrorist organizations also. It's amazing to me that these posters continually look for the evil in their own people while ignoring, or looking away, from the genuine evil of others. Failing to do even basic research before submitting their goofy opinions is a reflection of that.Not only that, but the assertion there were no terrorists in Iraq before the U.S. invasion is false. The records of Hussein's regime that were discovered after the invasion showed it had played host to a number of terrorist organizations from various parts of the world. It supplied thousands of these mutts with money, weapons, instruction, training camps--the whole nine yards. The U.S. even had reconnaissance photos of one of the larger camps.
President Clinton believed Hussein's assistance to terrorists probably extended even to poison gas or biological agents. He said that was why he had destroyed the Al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, which he had reason to think Hussein was using to produce these things outside Iraq. The U.S. at the time suspected the plant was connected to Al Qaeda through the regime in Sudan, which Bin Laden had given quite a lot of money. The same day the U.S. attacked the plant in Khartoum, it also attacked Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan.
Huh? What you got out of that post was "calling the President all sorts of names"????Calling the president all sorts of names doesn't hurt my feelings. I really don't care. Creating environments that are beneficial to Islamic extremists does, and so ill be reminding you of that.
Did the Coalition really kill "hundreds of thousands of people" or are you including those murdered by islamists also?Killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in response to Hussein doing the same is Bush logic. And, Hussein was never, ever a threat to the U.S., and he had neither the inclination nor the ability to produce a mushroom cloud over a U.S. City, all the fearmongering notwithstanding.
Yeah it doesn't bother me either.
Back to the environments, read my post again, that you responded to and tell me all the things I claim Obama was a complete failure on, that you claim was a complete success.
Killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in response to Hussein doing the same is Bush logic. And, Hussein was never, ever a threat to the U.S., and he had neither the inclination nor the ability to produce a mushroom cloud over a U.S. City, all the fearmongering notwithstanding.
Did the Coalition really kill "hundreds of thousands of people" or are you including those murdered by islamists also?
Do you have a way of telling the difference between a civilian and a terrorist? If so you should offer this information to Homeland Security and the 95% failures at airport security.
Huh? What you got out of that post was "calling the President all sorts of names"????
Please read the posts before you respond.
Saddam was seeking WMD and had been doing so for years. He was a threat to his neighbors and was responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. He was shooting at US planes for several years and had repeatedly broken the terms of initial Gulf War treaty and had easily bribed UN Members.
You're continually given info on this despot and now, in your final defense, you say he say 'he had neither the inclination nor the ability to produce a mushroom cloud over a US City'. I don't know how you figure he didn't have the inclination had he acquired the wherewithal but, like most of your conjectures, it's safe to assume your guessing again.
The Coalition was protecting the citizens. You can easily confirm this by looking at the civilian deaths in Iraq in 2011 and the same stats Iraq in 2015, once the American military was recalled..As Powell correctly pointed out, the moment Hussein was removed from power, the U.S. Owned Iraq and was responsible for the security of the civilians that we were there (allegedly???) to protect.
Why not go by actual history and the stats? Are you genuinely trying to make the case that history is decided by a democratic consensus?The history is what it is, and there is near global consensus that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was a MISTAKE, and a failure. We've been over the 2006 NIE, that concluded that the invasion and occupation of Iraq caused an INCREASE in global terrorism, endlessly, pointed out numerous times that even the majority of the GOP congress accepts the reality of the mistake, only the fragment on the fringes of the extreme right hold onto that failure as some sort of success.
Interesting. What are these "other factors"?Well I can tell you that here in America, it's nearly universally realized that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was a mistake, besides failure. And despite the fact that we have a very vocal fringe right minority who still think otherwise, (half of them are here at DP) Americas moving left, and with any luck, we'll see less foolish military adventurism. But, if that doesn't stop us, there's other factors at play that will.
Obama was called a "Dumbass" and "an idiot". no worse than what you've said about George Bush. The poster then explained why BHO was a Dumbass and an idiot but it seems you found it difficult to defend him.Huh? You can't read.
The Coalition was protecting the citizens. You can easily confirm this by looking at the civilian deaths in Iraq in 2011 and the same stats Iraq in 2015, once the American military was recalled..
Why not go by actual history and the stats? Are you genuinely trying to make the case that history is decided by a democratic consensus?
Obama was called a "Dumbass" and "an idiot". no worse than what you've said about George Bush. The poster then explained why BHO was a Dumbass and an idiot but it seems you found it difficult to defend him.
History by consensus rather than facts. That's taking the democratic ideal to whole new levels.Not quite. It's the facts that have formed the consensus opinion now of the failure of the invasion and occupation of Iraq. And thankfully so for one would have to be a complete idiot by now to still think otherwise. :roll:
Interesting. What are these "other factors"?
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