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Iraqi Democracy NOT Worth US Economy!

Billo_Really said:
Even though I personnally feel this is an illegal war and a violation of international law, in addition to thinking the planners and decision makers for this war should be charged as war criminals, I am completly amazed at all the chicken-hawks that argue in favor of the US aggression in Iraq without considering the toll it is taking on the US economy. The picture is gloomy and getting worse by the day. Check it out:

Casualty of War: The US Economy
By James Sterngold (The San Francisco Chronicle)
Sunday 17 July 2005

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have already cost taxpayers $314 billion, and the Congressional Budget Office projects additional expenses of perhaps $450 billion over the next 10 years.

That could make the combined campaigns, especially the war in Iraq, the most expensive military effort in the last 60 years, causing even some conservative experts to criticize the open-ended commitment to an elusive goal. The concern is that the soaring costs, given little weight before now, could play a growing role in U.S. strategic decisions because of the fiscal impact.

"Osama (bin Laden) doesn't have to win; he will just bleed us to death," said Michael Scheuer, a former counterterrorism official at the CIA who led the pursuit of bin Laden and recently retired after writing two books critical of the Clinton and Bush administrations. "He's well on his way to doing it."

The Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a nonpartisan Washington think tank, has estimated that the Korean War cost about $430 billion and the Vietnam War cost about $600 billion, in current dollars. According to the latest estimates, the cost of the war in Iraq could exceed $700 billion.
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It only seems that $700 billions is huge for US economy. The total of US debt grows ca. $2,5 trillions annualy and now exceeds $35 trillions. Just glance over here: www.kwaves.com

Money supply grows exponentialy since the mid 1990s. Therefore, if US economy will fall into a real crisis it will be hardly due to the direct spendings on war in Iraq.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
If I can do my banking, enroll in college, file tax returns, and apply for/recieve financial aide all online, then I think voting could be done electronically as well. But first we have to rid of the electoral college.
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Of course, IMO it is totally absurd that in this electronic age of e-mail, we continue to send people to voting booths at election time to vote with paper and punch cards. All this can be done via the internet; in turn, it will allow us to revolutionize democracy. Until now, the public has voted for the members of the Senate and the House, who then create the laws. Also the President is chosen by the Electoral College, who are themselves determined by popular vote. But, thanks to the net, we could imagine direct democracies bypassing any need for these lawmakers and electors.
 
kal-el said:
Of course, IMO it is totally absurd that in this electronic age of e-mail, we continue to send people to voting booths at election time to vote with paper and punch cards. All this can be done via the internet; in turn, it will allow us to revolutionize democracy. Until now, the public has voted for the members of the Senate and the House, who then create the laws. Also the President is chosen by the Electoral College, who are themselves determined by popular vote. But, thanks to the net, we could imagine direct democracies bypassing any need for these lawmakers and electors.
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That sounds ideal. And I would be all for it. Now, if we could just fix that damn media problem!
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
That sounds ideal. And I would be all for it. Now, if we could just fix that damn media problem!
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Yes, of course, the job of increasing public awareness, the sharing of knowledge, and to eradicate fear and superstition should, and I say should, fill the various publishers with enthusaism and motivate a true press.

But, unfortunately, the situation is reversed. The press belongs to powerful financial groups whose only purpose is to make money, and for them ratings and sales are more important than the credibility of the "news" they propogate. Especially FOX (the mouth of the Bush administration), but not limited to MSNBC, CBS, and practically every other news station. They know that fear is what sells best, and know how to exploit it. Just take a look at the headlines. Compare the length of time devoted to good news vs. bad news- bad news which maintains the population in a state of fear. It is quite amazing to say the least.
 
And the rich are likely to be profiting quite a bit from this war.
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Yes, maybe not now but soon. Bush definatly has some questionable ties to oil companies etc. Who knows? Maybe in about 15 years, the government will declassify information saying that the war was for oil? It will certainly make a lot of people happy because they would be able to gloat over it. Ah well.
 
Billo_Really said:
There's one thing I can thank the President on, I've never in my life wanted to participate more in the political process than I do right now. I've never felt more patriotic than I do right now. Other than getting our troops back on American soil, I can't think of a better gift to this country than lobbying for his Impeachment.
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:2razz: something good had to come out of this fiasco.
 
Originally Posted by ban.the.electoral.college
If I can do my banking, enroll in college, file tax returns, and apply for/recieve financial aide all online, then I think voting could be done electronically as well. But first we have to rid of the electoral college.
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I agree the electoral college should be banned. I just think if we get that done, we could potentially have that all go for naught if we let Republicans like Diebold tell us who voted for who.

It's like Keno. You give them your money, then they tell you whether you won or not. "No, you lost! Try again. Maybe your luck will change!"

Sorry, don't mean to joke about this. I very serious about the potential for voter fraud. But you got to make up your own mind. If you care to do a little research, here's some links to check out.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102604K.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110704V.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/072404C.shtml
 
Billo_Really said:
I agree the electoral college should be banned. I just think if we get that done, we could potentially have that all go for naught if we let Republicans like Diebold tell us who voted for who.

It's like Keno. You give them your money, then they tell you whether you won or not. "No, you lost! Try again. Maybe your luck will change!"

Sorry, don't mean to joke about this. I very serious about the potential for voter fraud. But you got to make up your own mind. If you care to do a little research, here's some links to check out.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102604K.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110704V.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/072404C.shtml
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LOL,

Alls we need with the electronic voting is some better project management and I gaurantee that it would be light years better than the paper ballot systems we have now. (I'm a programmer) ;)
 
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