• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Iraqi Democracy – How can it succeed?

Mancunian

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
72
Reaction score
2
Location
Manchester, England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Is anyone able to tell me which parties will contest a democratic election in Iraq and if any of them have yet proved to be popular?

Are Islamic zealots allied to a particular party? If so, what are the chances of them gaining power democratically?

Is it feasible that even if a well intentioned political party is democratically elected, that a coup could still take place after the troops have left and return the country to repression or worse? (what precautions are being made against this?)

I’m certain that a large number of Iraqi’s welcome democracy but equally some don’t. It is not, then, a foregone conclusion that a democracy will last long i.e.; the political loser in a general election in the US or UK picks themselves up and prepares for the next one. The loser of an election in Iraq may well pick up arms.

I’m sure GWB and TB have thought of this and will understand that if they are to convince the public that a democratic Iraq is something we should all celebrate then extreme Islamicists (sp?) cannot be allowed power in Iraq. But by fixing the result which they cannot leave to chance, they will be undermining the whole process.

How will it work? Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Mancunian said:
Would anyone care to oblige a fairly new poster with a reply?

SOB!!:(
And when have you replied to mine? :2wave:

You gotta make yourself "known" around here....
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
1,670
Reaction score
17
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Mancunian said:
Is anyone able to tell me which parties will contest a democratic election in Iraq and if any of them have yet proved to be popular?

Are Islamic zealots allied to a particular party? If so, what are the chances of them gaining power democratically?

Is it feasible that even if a well intentioned political party is democratically elected, that a coup could still take place after the troops have left and return the country to repression or worse? (what precautions are being made against this?)

I’m certain that a large number of Iraqi’s welcome democracy but equally some don’t. It is not, then, a foregone conclusion that a democracy will last long i.e.; the political loser in a general election in the US or UK picks themselves up and prepares for the next one. The loser of an election in Iraq may well pick up arms.

I’m sure GWB and TB have thought of this and will understand that if they are to convince the public that a democratic Iraq is something we should all celebrate then extreme Islamicists (sp?) cannot be allowed power in Iraq. But by fixing the result which they cannot leave to chance, they will be undermining the whole process.

How will it work? Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers
A lot of Iraqi's agree that they want a democracy but the majority of Iraqis will agree that they want it to be an Islamic state. Islamic law isn't exactly democratic and would leave plenty of room for islamic fundamentalists to infiltrate the government.
 

Mancunian

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
72
Reaction score
2
Location
Manchester, England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I have replied to you cnredd (see post “George W. Bush is in denial of reality”) but I take your point. So many of you seem to have more time on your hands than me!!

Do you care to express your view on how democracy can work in Iraq?
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Mancunian said:
I have replied to you cnredd (see post “George W. Bush is in denial of reality”) but I take your point. So many of you seem to have more time on your hands than me!!

Do you care to express your view on how democracy can work in Iraq?
Can't go into detail right now...I'll give you the short reply....

Read whatever Billo Really, 26X World Champs, & Napolean Nightengale have to say...then the opposite will be true....:2wave:
 

GarzaUK

That European Guy
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
3,682
Reaction score
625
Location
Belfast, Northern Ireland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
The thing is maybe the whole spread of democracy in the middle east is working to the terrorists advantage.

Think about it we replaced a secular dictator with a Islamic government with laws inspired by religious Islam. It seems when Arabs get a choice to vote they vote for religious conservatism instead of progression, look at Lebonan.
 

Youve Got To Be Kidding!

Active member
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
319
Reaction score
1
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Mancunian said:
Is anyone able to tell me which parties will contest a democratic election in Iraq and if any of them have yet proved to be popular?

Are Islamic zealots allied to a particular party? If so, what are the chances of them gaining power democratically?

Is it feasible that even if a well intentioned political party is democratically elected, that a coup could still take place after the troops have left and return the country to repression or worse? (what precautions are being made against this?)

I’m certain that a large number of Iraqi’s welcome democracy but equally some don’t. It is not, then, a foregone conclusion that a democracy will last long i.e.; the political loser in a general election in the US or UK picks themselves up and prepares for the next one. The loser of an election in Iraq may well pick up arms.

I’m sure GWB and TB have thought of this and will understand that if they are to convince the public that a democratic Iraq is something we should all celebrate then extreme Islamicists (sp?) cannot be allowed power in Iraq. But by fixing the result which they cannot leave to chance, they will be undermining the whole process.

How will it work? Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers
George bush did look into this verry thing he wrote a book on it...
The highlight of the book is where he went on to say he left saddam in power because democracy would never work in iraq and would only leave a civil war....
 

Bergslagstroll

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
5,149
Reaction score
977
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
GarzaUK said:
The thing is maybe the whole spread of democracy in the middle east is working to the terrorists advantage.

Think about it we replaced a secular dictator with a Islamic government with laws inspired by religious Islam. It seems when Arabs get a choice to vote they vote for religious conservatism instead of progression, look at Lebonan.
A big reason is that the secular guys that have been in power that in many case also have been supported by the west havn't been the nicest guys. Also alot of seculare nationalistic and socialistic opposition and goverments have been crushed and also in many cases with the help of west, making the remaining opposition more islamic. Then it comes to Iraq I have heard that the dominating shi´a population had the choise between islamic parties and a communist party if they wanted to vote for a shi´a party.
 

Mancunian

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
72
Reaction score
2
Location
Manchester, England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I personally don't think that either the US or UK governments give a toss about Iraqi's. They would like to think they can make it stable for our own economic benefit and democratising the country is the only way we know how. Maybe they'll succed to a certain extent whilst the country is still occupied. What's good for the goose .....

..... but Iraqi's aren't brought up the same way we are. There are too many cultural differences that need to be respected. Why should they listen to us? Have we ever listened to them?

Like the teacher who leaves the classroom; when the troops leave, the kids will start misbehaving. It doesn't matter how much you tell them it's right, if they don't want it, they won't have it. So, if and when the troops leave, expect civil war! :(

I'm expecting at least a few conservatives to give me some stick, so come on, let's hear it!
 

Parmenion

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
137
Reaction score
7
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Iraqi Democracy – How can it succeed?

First and foremost Democracy is a bad government choice for the country given its resources, religious affiliations and location.

A Constitutional Monarchy, or Benevolent dictatorship would suit the country better. Given that it is quite an affluent country, a dictatorship would work better. Under dictatorship you can impose higher taxes than democracy and those taxes can be pumped back into the country.

A good example of a working Monarchy/Dictatorship of this type would be the UAE.

Democracy is a dictatorship of the majority and whoever is in power when drawing up the constitution is going to make sure that it provides for their niche more than the minority. Ethnical marginalization such as the situation in the Zionist state of Israel is likely to occur to some degree under deomcracy while that situation would not be the case under a benevolent Dictatorship.
 

Bladegeek

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
A lot of Iraqi's agree that they want a democracy but the majority of Iraqis will agree that they want it to be an Islamic state. Islamic law isn't exactly democratic and would leave plenty of room for islamic fundamentalists to infiltrate the government.

How many Iraqi's in Iraq have you talked to? I spent a year of my life fighting in Baghdad side by side with Iraqi security forces. They want democracy not an Islamic state. So when you say majority who are you talking about? The fundamentalists? Maybe but they are not the majority. When you ask an Arab from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Jordan what they are they will tell you that they are Arab. Ask an Arab from Iraq and they will tell you they are Iraqi. Iraq is a very nationalistic state. Iraq has never been or ever will be an Islamic state. The Iraqi people don’t want it to be.
 

Parmenion

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
137
Reaction score
7
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Iraqi Democracy – How can it succeed?

When you say that you spent a year of your life fighting side by side with the Iraqi security forces, was it a case that you weren't there fighting against the Iraqi security forces defending the Nation against invasion?

Some of security forces defending the Iraqi Nation before the invasion are still fighting against occupancy and do not want a democracy. They have been reinforced of course by many other Arabs from neighbouring countries.

Would it be your opinion that the security forces defending iraq before the invasion are not as entitled to their vision for their country as the present security forces are entitled to? How many of the old security forces still battling occupation did you speak with out of curiousity? Or were your conversations all one-sided?
 
Top Bottom