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Iraqi Constitution

Navy Pride

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KevinWan said:
So, the news todays is... the Iraqi Constitution has been postponed by 7 days by the Iraqi Parliament, CNN is reporting.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/15/iraq.main/index.html

So, what does this mean for the future of Iraq, and opinions regarding pro-war/anti-war?? Can Iraqi democracy take hold? Why or why not??
It means the process is working.........The Iraqi government is trying to get a Constitution in a year............It took this country 12 years to get one......

Not to bad I would think...........
 

GarzaUK

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To be honest the US should stop putting pressure on them to get it done as quickly as possible. Just because a quick constitution would be good for the US and the Bush Administration doesn't mean it will be good for the Iraqi nation.
Let them have time.
 

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GarzaUK said:
To be honest the US should stop putting pressure on them to get it done as quickly as possible. Just because a quick constitution would be good for the US and the Bush Administration doesn't mean it will be good for the Iraqi nation.
Let them have time.
I agree Garza. A year is much too soon, considering our constitution took I think 3 to 4 years before it was completely framed. The founding fathers took their time because they wanted to ensure it's being the best possible framework for themselves and future generations to live under.

Our role should be ONLY advisory within this process. It is good that they are going to get one... however THEY have to be the ones to put it together and then ratify it democratically. Otherwise it is just a piece of paper that will eventually be snuffed into the night by another Sadaam Hussein, and then guess what.. we're at square one again.
 

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debate_junkie said:
I agree Garza. A year is much too soon, considering our constitution took I think 3 to 4 years before it was completely framed. The founding fathers took their time because they wanted to ensure it's being the best possible framework for themselves and future generations to live under.

Our role should be ONLY advisory within this process. It is good that they are going to get one... however THEY have to be the ones to put it together and then ratify it democratically. Otherwise it is just a piece of paper that will eventually be snuffed into the night by another Sadaam Hussein, and then guess what.. we're at square one again.
Well Garz and DJ tell that to the anti-Bush, leftist crowd. They are the ones insisting on a timetable and calling it failure if it is not met. Of course they want failure so they can use it to regain political power, outrageous but simply the truth.
 

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Stinger said:
Well Garz and DJ tell that to the anti-Bush, leftist crowd. They are the ones insisting on a timetable and calling it failure if it is not met. Of course they want failure so they can use it to regain political power, outrageous but simply the truth.
I'm anti-Bush and liberal as they come, I disagree with the Iraq war entirely. However I think it is important not to hurry out of Iraq for the sake of the Iraqi people. They should not pay for the mistakes that we and our politicans made.
We have got rid of Saddam yes, but we have brought a new terror unintentionally to the Iraqis that was not there before we set a foot on Iraqi soil (or sand) - Islamic Fundalmentalism. Even if we leave tomorrow, terrorism in Iraq will continue. Some experts estimate that it will be a decade before Iraq is stable and truely independent.

I also hear that Women's rights might actaully become worse than Saddam Hussein as the Shias are demanding laws based on Islam. Is that what our soliders died for? To make women wear veils?
 

ShamMol

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Stinger said:
Well Garz and DJ tell that to the anti-Bush, leftist crowd. They are the ones insisting on a timetable and calling it failure if it is not met. Of course they want failure so they can use it to regain political power, outrageous but simply the truth.
Do you even listen to what we say? No, you don't. You listen to Fox and this fanthom liberal mass that they have created out there calling for us to leave immediately. No, I like Nancy Soderberg's idea. Don't know who she is? Not surprising, but if you, kudos to you. As the top diplomat for Clinton she had an accute understanding of what it took to get things done around the world and how to handle oneself as a superpower. Her stance is simple. Two years is all that should be necessary to train all the troops that are needed, three at the most and then a small garrison of US troops to advise if you will the new government.

I want this constitution to be what the Iraqis want, not what the US wants. That means that there have to be elements of the Quaran in it, there have to be rollbacks of womens rights and there have to be a lot of things I am not going to be like for it be a constitution they can call their own.

Truth be told, if failure were to happen, it would not be a good thing for world peace, you know, the one thing which all liberals, even the fanthom one Fox has created, want. We don't want that. The Democrats are not liberal, and trust me, I wish they were. They fall to their knees in front of corporations instead of standing up to them and it just keeps falling from there more to the right and to the center. There are a few good libs in the Democratic party, just not nearly enough. Understand that.

And Garza, you have to understand that this is their country now, we can't interfere with their laws. If they want to roll back women's rights, we can protest, but we can't change it.
 

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Yes, I have already heard the political pundits calling this a disaster, a failure for the Bush administration, the end of the world as we know it. It's a simple delay, and a delay in which to include all parties, so they won't have to fear a civil war. I agree with those here who say wait, these delicate issues take time, let them set the pace.
 

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GarzaUK said:
I'm anti-Bush and liberal as they come, I disagree with the Iraq war entirely. However I think it is important not to hurry out of Iraq for the sake of the Iraqi people. They should not pay for the mistakes that we and our politicans made.
We have got rid of Saddam yes, but we have brought a new terror unintentionally to the Iraqis that was not there before we set a foot on Iraqi soil (or sand) - Islamic Fundalmentalism. Even if we leave tomorrow, terrorism in Iraq will continue. Some experts estimate that it will be a decade before Iraq is stable and truely independent.

I also hear that Women's rights might actaully become worse than Saddam Hussein as the Shias are demanding laws based on Islam. Is that what our soliders died for? To make women wear veils?
No big surprise, of course you want delays, the more delays in your mind the More the President looks bad..........

Like I said just keep in mind that it took the U.S. from 1777 to 1789 to adopt a constitution...............
 

ShamMol

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Are you kidding me Navy Pride? Is everything just to make the President look bad. I could have said the exact same thing about the Clinton days and only when it was blatantly obvious (I distinctly remember 8 times, inluding starr turing it into lewinskygate),but I held my tongue each time. Stop. *Hits nose with newpaper*

Now that the issue with that is settled...we want delays so that the constitution won't cause a civil war. That simple. With civil war, it will throw the region into chaos and cuase a lot more people than have already to die needlessly. If they need more time to do it right, give it to them.
 

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Navy Pride said:
No big surprise, of course you want delays, the more delays in your mind the More the President looks bad..........

Like I said just keep in mind that it took the U.S. from 1777 to 1789 to adopt a constitution...............
This may shock you but the world does not revolve around Bush. I want a stable Iraqi government for the sake of the innocent Iraqis whom never asked for this "war on terror" to be brought on their doorstep.

I'm against the war but I'm also a liberal humanitarian who beleives in freedom and right for a person to choose how to live their lives.

My dad always says "when you do a job, you do it right - not half assed", the Iraqi constitution has to be solid.

The problem with you Americans is you want things done fast, as quick as possible, over in a heartbeat. World politics doesn't work in that way.

Your President already looks bad, 42% is it now? He's joining the ranks of Johnson, Truman and Nixon as one of the worse Presidents in recent times, hell even Clinton had higher approval.
 

cnredd

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GarzaUK said:
The problem with you Americans is you want things done fast, as quick as possible, over in a heartbeat. World politics doesn't work in that way.

Your President already looks bad, 42% is it now? He's joining the ranks of Johnson, Truman and Nixon as one of the worse Presidents in recent times, hell even Clinton had higher approval.
"you Americans" sounds very derogatory...but in this case you are correct...

We live in a "remote control" world, where if it's not done in 10 minutes, it's not worth doing at all...and "Yes", that is very narrowminded.

Pertaining to the Presidents, I wrote this earlier...

...An open window to get rid of a bad guy and to plant the seeds of Democracy. Just like childbirth, he knew it was going to be painful, both in military and political policies, but he knows that, long term, the world will be better off for it...Let the critics bitch & moan...

Hell, Abe Lincoln was elected President for a second term with only 39% of
the vote! Nine states had ZERO votes for him! And I don't think Abe gets
crapped on for what he did, does he? Bush is following the same form...

Hate him now...hate him all you want...but in about 20, 30, or even
50 years from now, when most, if not all, of the dictatorships in the Middle
East are gone and Democracy rules the roost...look back to April, 2003...
Watch the Saddam statue coming down...then you'll know why this was all started.
 
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Navy Pride said:
No big surprise, of course you want delays, the more delays in your mind the More the President looks bad..........

Like I said just keep in mind that it took the U.S. from 1777 to 1789 to adopt a constitution...............
What if the Iraqi people vote this version down? Do you honestly believe that the american people are willing to watch their sons, fathers, brothers, mothers, daughters, and sisters die for 12 years for a piece of paper thousands of miles away?
 

GarzaUK

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cnredd said:
"you Americans" sounds very derogatory...but in this case you are correct...
[/I]
I apoligise, I did not mean to sound derogatory. It's my dialect of English lol, where I live in the UK we put "you" in front of words sometimes.
 
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cnredd said:
"you Americans" sounds very derogatory...but in this case you are correct...

We live in a "remote control" world, where if it's not done in 10 minutes, it's not worth doing at all...and "Yes", that is very narrowminded.

Pertaining to the Presidents, I wrote this earlier...

...An open window to get rid of a bad guy and to plant the seeds of Democracy. Just like childbirth, he knew it was going to be painful, both in military and political policies, but he knows that, long term, the world will be better off for it...Let the critics bitch & moan...

Hell, Abe Lincoln was elected President for a second term with only 39% of
the vote! Nine states had ZERO votes for him! And I don't think Abe gets
crapped on for what he did, does he? Bush is following the same form...

Hate him now...hate him all you want...but in about 20, 30, or even
50 years from now, when most, if not all, of the dictatorships in the Middle
East are gone and Democracy rules the roost...look back to April, 2003...
Watch the Saddam statue coming down...then you'll know why this was all started.
You forget that Abe's war destroyed the South in the process of trying to reintegrate it. The South fell into economic collapse by the time the war ended. Do you even remember the part about Atlanta being burned to the ground and sacked? Did the ends justify the means? Partially. Half of the United States had virtually no source of income. A war to unite a nation doesn't become a bad thing until you obliterate the very half you're trying to reintegrate.
 

cnredd

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
You forget that Abe's war destroyed the South in the process of trying to reintegrate it. The South fell into economic collapse by the time the war ended. Do you even remember the part about Atlanta being burned to the ground and sacked? Did the ends justify the means? Partially. Half of the United States had virtually no source of income. A war to unite a nation doesn't become a bad thing until you obliterate the very half you're trying to reintegrate.
I didn't forget anything...Go someplace and fall on your sword....
 

GarzaUK

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Navy Pride said:
No big surprise, of course you want delays, the more delays in your mind the More the President looks bad..........

Like I said just keep in mind that it took the U.S. from 1777 to 1789 to adopt a constitution...............
I just had to come back to this quote.

So if I said I wanted US troops to pull out you would call me a coward. When I said I wanted US to stay in Iraq and for the constitution not to be rushed (which I am actually agreeing with you) you accuse me of having an other motive. I don't know maybe I just want whats best for the innocent Iraqis.

If I said that snow was white, you's still argue with me coz I'm a liberal lol lol.
 
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