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Iraq-Al Qaeda Lie Was From Al Qaeda

danarhea

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The Bush administration was warned in 2002 that the rumor of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq was false, but chose to use it as one of its talking points to go to war. Guess what? Al Qaeda wanted the war against Hussein to proceed because he was their enemy too. The fabricator of the false intel was an al Qaeda operative. Turns out their logic was to get the US into Iraq, where they could bog us down. Do you know what that means? It means that Bush, willingly or not, gave aid and comfort to the enemy, which was not Iraq, but al Qaeda. Al Qaeda played the Bush administration like a fiddle. What makes this worse is the fact that Bush so easily played into their hands. Despite being warned that this was false information, Bush used it anyways, and as a result, killed more than two thousand of our own troops in his reckless scheme. This is not war. This is manslaughter, and Bush needs to pay for his crimes.

As Bush said, you are either with America or you are with the terrorists. Looks like Bush threw his lot in with the terrorists.

Article is here.
 

MSgt

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More postings of the desperate.:roll:

Let me try. You use oil and gasoline for your car and you use oil based products. We receive much of our oil from the House of Saud, the true lords of terror, which is known to have funded terrorist groups such as Al-Queda. Do you know what that means? It means that you, willingly or not, gave aid and comfort to the enemy.

Awesome. That was fun.
 

Simon W. Moon

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As I suspect is the case for most events of this magnitude, there was a confluence of motives and opportunities.
The INC wanted the US in Iraq. The INC also supplied testimonials of ... questioned veracity to the Team Bush cherry-picking squads (the OSP and PCTEG). The Iranians wanted Hussein gone and thus cooperated w/ the INC. Incidentally, one of the many reasons why the US Intel Community distrusted the INC was that their chief of security was an Iranian agent. Somehow, despuite this and the US Intel Community's objections, Team Bush took this crew into their inner circle. Al-Qaeda wanted the Us to lash out and help radicalize elements in the Muslim world.

The lie from the al-Qaedi is just a matter of him being in the right place at the right time to add a bit of petrol to the fire.
 

aps

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Report warned Bush team about intelligence doubts

Well lookie here--an article from today's New York Times (I know, I know a vewy liberal newspaper) shows that a report from the Defense Intelligence Agency in February 2002 had determined that a member of Al Qaeda (Libi) was intentionally misleading the debriefers when he made allegations of there being a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. But yet, even after this report, Bush, Cheney, and Powell kept saying that Libi's information was "credible."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/p...&en=0d091794b0c89f27&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Ahhhh, this is only the beginning of things to come for the poor wittle Bushy Wushy Administration. :tocktock2
 

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>The Bush administration was warned in 2002 that the rumor of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq was false,

Then why has every committe and report since said otherwise?
 

aps

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Stinger said:
>The Bush administration was warned in 2002 that the rumor of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq was false,

Then why has every committe and report since said otherwise?
Please provide evidence to substantiate that allegation. The 9-11 Commission found NO relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Colin Powell said that by the time he left office, he had not seen evidence of a connection. So I have no idea where you're getting your information, except from the Bush administration or Fox News.
 

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Maybe he is getting his information the same way people that study the region have gotten their information over the decades...they open their eyes.

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) FUNDED BY IRAQ, SYRIA, LIBYA
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Al-Queda
Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (Aum)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (IG)
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
Jemaah Islamiya Organization (JI)
Al-Jihad (AJ)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kongra-Gel (KGK)
Lashkar e-Tayyiba (LT)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) FUNDED AND BASED IN IRAQ
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Nuclei (RN)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)
Shining Path (SL)
Tanzim Qa’idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR)

This is not a "War on Al-Queda." This is a "War on Terror." Every group of terrorists that have come from the Middle East are mere symptoms of decay. The more the Middle East decays and the more the west prospers, the worst it will get. Some of these groups are from Africa. Another place full of oppression and decay. Still there are a couple groups listed here that are from other places, but learned their craft in the Middle East from other terror groups. What is common among them? - Islamic extremism. Al-Queda was nothing. It will get worse and they will continue to blame America for what they have done to themselves.

Maybe you should take some time out from hating and vomiting up your criticisms long enough to do your own studying. You might learn something and allow yourself to look at the big picture, instead of fretting over the mundane details of this war and the inhumane results that all war brings. There is only so much that an Internationally televised American President can say regarding this effort to safe guard your life. This civilization's hardliners have been waging war on us for a loooong time whether we have taken part in it or not. Until this civilization's dilemmas are addressed and placed on a path to change, American civilians will continue to be murdered for misdirected anger and blame. We can no longer stand idly by and turn our backs on the Muslims of the Middle East as their governments oppress and abuse them and use us as the scapegoat. As long as the oil flowed, that is exactly what our government has done.
 
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Stinger

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aps said:
Please provide evidence to substantiate that allegation. The 9-11 Commission found NO relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Colin Powell said that by the time he left office, he had not seen evidence of a connection. So I have no idea where you're getting your information, except from the Bush administration or Fox News.
It's not a debatable point. The 9/11 commission DID find ties between Alqaeda and Saddam as did the Senate Intelligence hearings. Post the statement from Powell saying he had seen nothing, nada, zip as far as anything between Saddam and Alqaeda.
 

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Here's something that Powell said in his Security Council speech...

"Going back to the early and mid 1990's, when Bin Laden was based in Sudan, an Al Qaeda source tells us that Saddam and Bin Laden reached an understanding that Al Qaeda would no longer support activities against Baghdad."

There was no connection between these two...simply an agreement not to try and kill eachother. That's as far as any connection went. They cut a deal to leave eachother alone.
 

aps

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Stinger said:
It's not a debatable point. The 9/11 commission DID find ties between Alqaeda and Saddam as did the Senate Intelligence hearings. Post the statement from Powell saying he had seen nothing, nada, zip as far as anything between Saddam and Alqaeda.
He was on 20/20 in early September 2005. Sorry, Stinger, but I accord more probative value to the Secretary of State's opinion than your interpretation of what the 9-11 Commission concluded.

Powell Says U.N. Speech a 'Blot' on Record
By BARRY SCHWEID
The Associated Press

Thursday, September 8, 2005; 10:21 PM

WASHINGTON -- Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday his prewar speech to the United Nations accusing Iraq of harboring weapons of mass destruction was a "blot" on his record.

"I'm the one who presented it to the world, and (it) will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It is painful now," Powell said in an interview with Barbara Walters on ABC-News.

The presentation by the soldier-diplomat to the world body in February 2003 lent considerable credibility to President Bush's case against Iraq and for going to war to remove President Saddam Hussein.

In the speech, Powell said he had relied on information he received at Central Intelligence Agency briefings. He said Thursday that then-director George Tenet "believed what he was giving to me was accurate."

But, Powell said, "the intelligence system did not work well."

"There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at the time that some of those sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up," Powell said.

"That devastated me," he said.

Powell in the TV interview also disputed the Bush administration's linking of Saddam's regime with terrorists.

He said he had never seen a connection between Baghdad and the 9-11 attacks on New York and Washington in 2001. "I can't think otherwise, because I'd never seen evidence to suggest there was one," he said.

Still, Powell said that while he has always been a "reluctant warrior" he supported Bush on going to war the month after his U.N. speech. "When the president decided that it was not tolerable for this regime to remain in violation of all those U.N. resolutions I am right there with him with the use of force," Powell said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090801497.html
 

Simon W. Moon

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Stinger said:
It's not a debatable point. The 9/11 commission DID find ties between Alqaeda and Saddam as did the Senate Intelligence hearings.
This is indeed true as long as one waters down the meaning of the word "ties" to exclude meaningful relationships such as a co operational, collaborative or operational. If one excludes these types of significant connections, then, yes, indeed, there were "ties" that were found. There are also "ties" between the US and aQ, and ties between the US and Hussein.
But this and these "ties" are really neither here nor there.
What's at issue is the nature of the "ties."

The US Intel Community was saying and is still saying that there was no collaborative nor operational "ties" between Hussein and al-Qaida. Off the top of my head, I can think of no committee report that says otherwise. If you know of one, please share.
 

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Hoot said:
Here's something that Powell said in his Security Council speech...

"Going back to the early and mid 1990's, when Bin Laden was based in Sudan, an Al Qaeda source tells us that Saddam and Bin Laden reached an understanding that Al Qaeda would no longer support activities against Baghdad."

There was no connection between these two...simply an agreement not to try and kill eachother. That's as far as any connection went. They cut a deal to leave eachother alone.
And assist each other in other ways, the connects have been listed over and over here and do not warrant relisting them.
 

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aps said:
He was on 20/20 in early September 2005. Sorry, Stinger, but I accord more probative value to the Secretary of State's opinion than your interpretation of what the 9-11 Commission concluded.

Powell Says U.N. Speech a 'Blot' on Record
By BARRY SCHWEID
The Associated Press

Thursday, September 8, 2005; 10:21 PM
Nothing in your post discounts anything I have said or the fact that Saddam and Alqaeda had ties and that both wanted to and were working at furthering those ties. And why did you have to insert something about 9/11 when that claim has never been made. The facts are the facts and they are clearly spelled out in all the reports.
 

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Simon W. Moon said:
This is indeed true as long as one waters down the meaning of the word "ties"
No one has to water down anything the reports are chilling enough in describing what was going on.


The US Intel Community was saying and is still saying that there was no collaborative nor operational "ties" between Hussein and al-Qaida. Off the top of my head, I can think of no committee report that says otherwise. If you know of one, please share.
Can we once and for all stipulate that Saddam and Bin Laden did not mount a combined attack on anyone. Will that finally make you and everyone else happy so you don't have to use that smoke screen anymore. WE ALL KNOW THAT. But that does not discount the many many many contacts and the planning and the training that WAS going on and that was JUST with Alqaeda.
 

danarhea

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Stinger said:
It's not a debatable point. The 9/11 commission DID find ties between Alqaeda and Saddam as did the Senate Intelligence hearings. Post the statement from Powell saying he had seen nothing, nada, zip as far as anything between Saddam and Alqaeda.
The reason it is not debatable is because Stinger cant prove his allegation, and therefore says its not debatable.
 

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danarhea said:
The reason it is not debatable is because Stinger cant prove his allegation, and therefore says its not debatable.
Nope because all through this forum and all through the entire Internet web one can search and find cites from all the reports which clearly show Saddam and Alqaeda had contact, that Saddam was actively increasing those contacts and the relationship that had already developed. And that's just with Alqaede let alone all the other terrorist groups he was supporting and working with. That's what both of the main investigations confirmed.

Did they carry out a mutal attack anywhere, no. Did they want to work together to carry out such attacks and futher each ones own motives. Without a doubt.

But here are just some of the various contacts and meetings and evidence we have turned up
* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam's hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.
* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddam's mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.
* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.
* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.
* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddam's men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.
* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraq's mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.
* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Jane's Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Jane's reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaeda's No. 2 man.
(Why are all of those meetings significant? The London Observer reports that FBI investigators cite a captured al Qaeda field manual in Afghanistan, which "emphasizes the value of conducting discussions about pending terrorist attacks face to face, rather than by electronic means.")
* As recently as 2001, Iraq's embassy in Pakistan was used as a "liaison" between the Iraqi dictator and al Qaeda, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.
* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan -- who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks -- that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre," London's Independent reports.
* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told Gwynne Roberts of the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Laden's fighters in camps in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddam's Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad. At that vast compound run by Iraqi intelligence, Muslim militants trained to hijack planes with knives -- on a full-size Boeing 707. Col. Mohammed recalls his first visit to Salman Pak this way: "We were met by Colonel Jamil Kamil, the camp manager, and Major Ali Hawas. I noticed that a lot of people were queuing for food. (The major) said to me: 'You'll have nothing to do with these people. They are Osama bin Laden's group and the PKK and Mojahedin-e Khalq.'"
* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddam's son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.
*The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiri's bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time and was present at the founding of al Qaeda in 1989.
* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Mr. Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaeda's global network.
* In 2001, an al Qaeda member "bragged that the situation in Iraq was 'good,'" according to intelligence made public by Mr. Powell.
* That same year, Saudi Arabian border guards arrested two al Qaeda members entering the kingdom from Iraq.
* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, Mr. Powell told the United Nations. His specialty was poisons. Wounded in fighting with U.S. forces, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When Zarqawi recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawi's Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, an official of the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawi's cell in Iraq, Mr. Powell said. His accomplice escaped to Iraq.
*Zarqawi met with military chief of al Qaeda, Mohammed Ibrahim Makwai (aka Saif al-Adel) in Iran in February 2003, according to intelligence sources cited by the Washington Post.
* Mohammad Atef, the head of al Qaeda's military wing until the U.S. killed him in Afghanistan in November 2001, told a senior al Qaeda member now in U.S. custody that the terror network needed labs outside of Afghanistan to manufacture chemical weapons, Mr. Powell said. "Where did they go, where did they look?" said the secretary. "They went to Iraq."
* Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi was sent to Iraq by bin Laden to purchase poison gases several times between 1997 and 2000. He called his relationship with Saddam's regime "successful," Mr. Powell told the United Nations.
* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.
* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a London's Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.
* Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 'to undertake jihad,'" Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekar's group was funded by "Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad."
* After October 2001, hundreds of al Qaeda fighters are believed to have holed up in the Ansar al-Islam's strongholds inside northern Iraq.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Richard Miniter various
[/FONT]
 
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danarhea

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Stinger said:
Nope because all through this forum and all through the entire Internet web one can search and find cites from all the reports which clearly show Saddam and Alqaeda had contact, that Saddam was actively increasing those contacts and the relationship that had already developed. And that's just with Alqaede let alone all the other terrorist groups he was supporting and working with. That's what both of the main investigations confirmed.

Did they carry out a mutal attack anywhere, no. Did they want to work together to carry out such attacks and futher each ones own motives. Without a doubt.

But here are just some of the various contacts and meetings and evidence we have turned up
* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam's hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.
* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddam's mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.
* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.
* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.
* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddam's men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.
* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraq's mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.
* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Jane's Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Jane's reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaeda's No. 2 man.
(Why are all of those meetings significant? The London Observer reports that FBI investigators cite a captured al Qaeda field manual in Afghanistan, which "emphasizes the value of conducting discussions about pending terrorist attacks face to face, rather than by electronic means.")
* As recently as 2001, Iraq's embassy in Pakistan was used as a "liaison" between the Iraqi dictator and al Qaeda, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.
* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan -- who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks -- that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre," London's Independent reports.
* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told Gwynne Roberts of the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Laden's fighters in camps in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddam's Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad. At that vast compound run by Iraqi intelligence, Muslim militants trained to hijack planes with knives -- on a full-size Boeing 707. Col. Mohammed recalls his first visit to Salman Pak this way: "We were met by Colonel Jamil Kamil, the camp manager, and Major Ali Hawas. I noticed that a lot of people were queuing for food. (The major) said to me: 'You'll have nothing to do with these people. They are Osama bin Laden's group and the PKK and Mojahedin-e Khalq.'"
* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddam's son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.
*The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiri's bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time and was present at the founding of al Qaeda in 1989.
* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Mr. Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaeda's global network.
* In 2001, an al Qaeda member "bragged that the situation in Iraq was 'good,'" according to intelligence made public by Mr. Powell.
* That same year, Saudi Arabian border guards arrested two al Qaeda members entering the kingdom from Iraq.
* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, Mr. Powell told the United Nations. His specialty was poisons. Wounded in fighting with U.S. forces, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When Zarqawi recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawi's Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, an official of the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawi's cell in Iraq, Mr. Powell said. His accomplice escaped to Iraq.
*Zarqawi met with military chief of al Qaeda, Mohammed Ibrahim Makwai (aka Saif al-Adel) in Iran in February 2003, according to intelligence sources cited by the Washington Post.
* Mohammad Atef, the head of al Qaeda's military wing until the U.S. killed him in Afghanistan in November 2001, told a senior al Qaeda member now in U.S. custody that the terror network needed labs outside of Afghanistan to manufacture chemical weapons, Mr. Powell said. "Where did they go, where did they look?" said the secretary. "They went to Iraq."
* Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi was sent to Iraq by bin Laden to purchase poison gases several times between 1997 and 2000. He called his relationship with Saddam's regime "successful," Mr. Powell told the United Nations.
* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.
* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a London's Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.
* Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 'to undertake jihad,'" Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekar's group was funded by "Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad."
* After October 2001, hundreds of al Qaeda fighters are believed to have holed up in the Ansar al-Islam's strongholds inside northern Iraq.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Richard Miniter various
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You have not posted one single solitary link throughout this whole thread, so why should I believe you? Because you posted it? Is it your own words, or are you plagarizing someone else? I hate to be so nasty about this, but that is one of the primary reason for links, that is, to distinguish your writing from the published works of others, in addition to offering evidence to back up what you are saying. So, is your response in your own words? If not, who are you quoting? Is your source a journalist, or is he from the American Enterprise Institute, or some other think tank? These questions are important. Go ahead and post your link. Dont be ashamed if it is from Newsmax. I actually read Newsmax sometimes. But do post a link so that I can see where your train of thought is coming from. If it is in your own words, and you didnt plagarize it, then say so. I will still demand a link from you to support what you are posting.
 
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aps

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Stinger said:
No one has to water down anything the reports are chilling enough in describing what was going on.




Can we once and for all stipulate that Saddam and Bin Laden did not mount a combined attack on anyone. Will that finally make you and everyone else happy so you don't have to use that smoke screen anymore. WE ALL KNOW THAT. But that does not discount the many many many contacts and the planning and the training that WAS going on and that was JUST with Alqaeda.
Oh, there's Stinger discounting everything I say and providing an excuse for his position. :yawn:
 

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danarhea said:



That reporter is great. Doug Jhel is well known as a liberal activist with a fountain of mininfomation to his history. He has his own section at timeswatch which documents media bias.



Douglas Jehl






Anything he says mandatorily comes with a chunk of salt.
 

akyron

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GySgt said:
Maybe he is getting his information the same way people that study the region have gotten their information over the decades...they open their eyes.

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) FUNDED BY IRAQ, SYRIA, LIBYA
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Al-Queda
Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (Aum)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (IG)
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
Jemaah Islamiya Organization (JI)
Al-Jihad (AJ)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kongra-Gel (KGK)
Lashkar e-Tayyiba (LT)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) FUNDED AND BASED IN IRAQ
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Nuclei (RN)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)
Shining Path (SL)
Tanzim Qa’idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR)

This is not a "War on Al-Queda." This is a "War on Terror." Every group of terrorists that have come from the Middle East are mere symptoms of decay. The more the Middle East decays and the more the west prospers, the worst it will get. Some of these groups are from Africa. Another place full of oppression and decay. Still there are a couple groups listed here that are from other places, but learned their craft in the Middle East from other terror groups. What is common among them? - Islamic extremism. Al-Queda was nothing. It will get worse and they will continue to blame America for what they have done to themselves.

Maybe you should take some time out from hating and vomiting up your criticisms long enough to do your own studying. You might learn something and allow yourself to look at the big picture, instead of fretting over the mundane details of this war and the inhumane results that all war brings. There is only so much that an Internationally televised American President can say regarding this effort to safe guard your life. This civilization's hardliners have been waging war on us for a loooong time whether we have taken part in it or not. Until this civilization's dilemmas are addressed and placed on a path to change, American civilians will continue to be murdered for misdirected anger and blame. We can no longer stand idly by and turn our backs on the Muslims of the Middle East as their governments oppress and abuse them and use us as the scapegoat. As long as the oil flowed, that is exactly what our government has done.


Your tenacity is inspiring. I dont know why you bother sometimes but thank you.
 

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akyron said:
Your tenacity is inspiring. I dont know why you bother sometimes but thank you.
I do it for material. Seeing different points of views helps me write. The obtuseness of some is frustrating, but it gives me ideas.
 

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danarhea said:
You have not posted one single solitary link throughout this whole thread, so why should I believe you? Because you posted it? Is it your own words, or are you plagarizing someone else? I hate to be so nasty about this, but that is one of the primary reason for links, that is, to distinguish your writing from the published works of others, in addition to offering evidence to back up what you are saying. So, is your response in your own words? If not, who are you quoting? Is your source a journalist, or is he from the American Enterprise Institute, or some other think tank? These questions are important. Go ahead and post your link. Dont be ashamed if it is from Newsmax. I actually read Newsmax sometimes. But do post a link so that I can see where your train of thought is coming from. If it is in your own words, and you didnt plagarize it, then say so. I will still demand a link from you to support what you are posting.
Are you through with your rant now? Have you gained a little time? Have you come up with a repsonse now? Did you look at the bottom of my cite?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Richard Miniter various

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Highly respect author, journalist, investigative reporter. His sources are the publicly available 9/11 and Senate Hearing reports. All of these have been posted here time and again and then ignored by the other side who brings up the same baseless claims that Saddam had no connections to terrorist groups including Alqaeda.
[/FONT]
 

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Stinger said:
But that does not discount the many many many contacts and the planning and the training that WAS going on and that was JUST with Alqaeda.
That'd be collaborative ties if not operational ones.

If you like you can provide your sources for what you're alleging, and, unless there're some surprises, I'll debunk them for you.
 

Simon W. Moon

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FYI: The US has yet to find any evidence that backs up the Salman Pak story that's been told.
 

Stinger

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Simon W. Moon said:
That'd be collaborative ties if not operational ones.
So what?

If you like you can provide your sources for what you're alleging, and, unless there're some surprises, I'll debunk them for you.
The Senate Hearings, the 911 commission, the Clinton administration, Fitzgerald when he prosecuted terrorist.

What is your position on this then perhaps I can more target my response.
 
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