Iran to stone another Woman to death

[alexa]

I was referring to the Lockerbie mass murderer who was released on humanitarian grounds in August 2009 supposedly because he only had six months to live.

He's still alive and doing quite well.

What's going on: Doctor says released Lockerbie bomber could live for years | syracuse.com

Ah, of course, I should have realised. There is a thread about this in the Breaking News section

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ing-lockerbie-bomber-may-live-10-years-3.html

 

[Mell]

How many innocent people are wrongfully convicted and then serve a FULL sentence? . . . it's my understanding that the number of cases where this is a LEGITIMATE concern are VERY few.

In Iran, many serve a full sentence or more, for so called crimes.

As for the woman who is the latest to be stoned, it is likely that she is the victim of village gossip, which led to accusations about her morals, which led to accusations about her being an enemy of Allah, which will lead to her being raped to ensure that a criminals such as she is do not get to heaven, before the one who is most pissed off at her in the village starts the stone throwing... The stone throwing part will likley happen in public, with an audience of people filming it with their phone cameras.

Does anybody deserve this?

Most of those stoned to death in Iran are women, for so called moral crimes against Islam.

I met an Australian girl in her 20s when I was in Iran. She was telling me about a stoning an Iranian guy filmed and showed her. He wanted her as a foreigner to know what goes on in Iran, and hopefully pass it on to a human rights organisation.

Why are people here, even discussing whether there is or isnt something wrong with these barbaric and humiliating punishments or not.

 

[Winston Smith]

Oh yeah... to those who say that this isn't en par to U.S. capital punishment because it's stoning a woman to death for having sex and not murder, I think you are equivocating. If you value human life then you must value all life. State executions are a horrendous practice whether it's in the U.S. or Iran.

I get accused of being high and mighty, yet are we supposed to feel better about ourselves 'over here' because we can point the finger at a nation that, to us, is more backwards?

I don't agree with the humanitarian situation the OP talks about. The woman should not be killed. Likewise, people should not be killed by the state in North America. It matters little to me if they are murderers. Life is life and you either value it or you don't.

I would add that capital punishment in the US is not limited to murderers. Under Clinton's 1994 crime bill, we also execute interstate drug smugglers, which in my opinion is just as irrational as what we're talking about here.

Yup, what with all the threats to nuke Israel and destroy the US and the world, I kinda gathered that they hate us. That's why I think we need to bomb the living crap out of them. :mrgreen:

Iran hasn't made any such threats.

This mis-named "War on Terror" might as well have been named "War to Free the Women." Because the raised female voices since 2003 and their escallating positions in educational facilties, as well as escallating civil rights, is a focus.

If it is a war to free women, it's been just as counterproductive in those terms.

Let's keep in mind that Iranian progressives don't necessarily favor America's threatening attitude toward Iran. In fact, it can be argued that we're only strengthening the regime and making reforms more difficult. Even if we accomplished regime change, conditions under the new government would probably still be barbaric. The difference is that 90 percent of the people complaining now wouldn't care any more, just like we didn't care when we had the shah in power. This is an issue that's being played up by the United States to generate support for aggression against Iran, but if we really cared about Iranian women, devastating their country with another phony liberation is the last thing we'd want to do.

 

[Shayah]

Why are people here, even discussing whether there is or isnt something wrong with these barbaric and humiliating punishments or not.

When my sister was in Iran, she witnessed a woman being beaten with wooden clubs simply because the woman had fallen down and her ankles were briefly exposed.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

As long as the U.S. is still gassing or electrocuting prisoners to death, you have no business pointing the finger.

This is retarded.

Whe was the last time we gassed and electocuted a person for "Adultery" .

 

[Agent Ferris]

well, we sure can't go to war with every society who thats treats women with utter disregard. i don't know the answer.

The answer at the very least is to expose it and educate people about it, not to minimize it or draw moral equivalencies like at least two of those on this thread have disgustingly done.

 

[Mell]

When my sister was in Iran, she witnessed a woman being beaten with wooden clubs simply because the woman had fallen down and her ankles were briefly exposed.

That doesnt surprise me. There are vigilantes everywhere in Iran, with no order to what they do. They just decide what they want is wrong, and violently punish at will for it. The current Iranian Prime Minister tried to regulate them, but it didnt work. There are a bunch of them associated with every mosque, and the mosques give them money for 'policing'.

Those vigilantes are one of the main reasons that the current Prime Minister was able to get into power again, despite few/nobody believing the election was fair. Anyone who shows any form of protest can be beaten(sometimes to death on a public street) by the vigilantes, or else tossed in a prison to be tortured and/or executed.

Apparently, something like 70% of Iranians want reform and progress.

 

[Ikari]

Apparently, something like 70% of Iranians want reform and progress.

Well, that's what guns are for I suppose. If they want reform and progress but do not have the government which can bring it; then they must do away with that government and construct a new one.

 

[Mell]

Well, that's what guns are for I suppose. If they want reform and progress but do not have the government which can bring it; then they must do away with that government and construct a new one.

Many of them would rather do it democratically, than kill people for it. And, if they were still at the stage of civilization when it was reasonable to kill those in power to get more power for themselves, then they likely would end up with a new government which is just as bad as the one they have now.

 

[Mell]

Well, that's what guns are for I suppose. If they want reform and progress but do not have the government which can bring it; then they must do away with that government and construct a new one.

If this is meant as a serious comment, then I think it is naive. When does violent revolution ever lead to improvements...

 

[molten_dragon]

If this is meant as a serious comment, then I think it is naive. When does violent revolution ever lead to improvements...

You're kidding, right?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

You're kidding, right?

:lol: she's from Germany... It didn't work out well for them as it did us. :ssst:

 

[Mell]

You're kidding, right?

No, I am not. Look at any group which has attempted a violent uprising in the last 10 years. Did any succeed? Killing everybody who disagrees is no longer the option it was 1000 years ago.

 

[rivrrat]

No, I am not. Look at any group which has attempted a violent uprising in the last 10 years. Did any succeed? Killing everybody who disagrees is no longer the option it was 1000 years ago.

Or.... 200 years ago? Or 150 years ago?

 

[Mell]

Or.... 200 years ago? Or 150 years ago?

Why would you go back that far, when things have changed. Some things simply wont work in todays world. People want democracy and freedom, and want to get it and keep it by democratic means. It is the only way that will have lasting positive effects and many Iranians have learned this the hard way. Those who want tyranny or coups are living at the wrong side of history. Or else they are just talking naive nonsense on political forums and insensitive to the realities of what they are talking about.

 

[Agent Ferris]

There is certainly an argument that life imprisonment is a harsher punishment than the death penalty but till you I had only heard it put forward by people in opposition to the death penalty.

It is up to the US to provide a humane level of care to those it puts in prison

I actually am opposed to the death penalty. My purpose was to point out the idiocy of drawing moral equivalencies here. If he wants to say that executing persons convicted of murder (a very small minority of whom maybe innocent) is the same thing as executing an innocent woman who is known to be innocent then the same subjective logic can be used against his country as well.

 

[mpg]

new development

Iran halts woman's death by stoning | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[Orion]

new development

Iran halts woman's death by stoning | World news | guardian.co.uk

Great news!

 

[mbig]

Similar to what happened in This case:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/69465-beheading-planned-saudi-sorcery-case-3.html

Not mercy; PR.

 

[Resist the gov.]

I honestly dont think its our place to say what there doing is wrong because to us it looks barbaric but things like this are Islamic practices and are normal over there so what may seem wrong to us may seem right to them.

 

[Agent Ferris]

I honestly dont think its our place to say what there doing is wrong because to us it looks barbaric but things like this are Islamic practices and are normal over there so what may seem wrong to us may seem right to them.

Subjectivist bull****. Hey Hitler hated Jews, he just wanted to kill the Jews in a culture which promoted anti-semitism and had a long history of Jewish pogroms, it may seem barbaric to us, but who are we to judge? I understand these things are normal over there, that's the ****ing problem.

 

[Resist the gov.]

Subjectivist bull****. Hey Hitler hated Jews, he just wanted to kill the Jews in a culture which promoted anti-semitism and had a long history of Jewish pogroms, it may seem barbaric to us, but who are we to judge? I understand these things are normal over there, that's the ****ing problem.

I dont think you can really compare a thousand years of Islamic culture to maybe 20 + years of anti -Jewish in Germany.

 

[Agent Ferris]

I dont think you can really compare a thousand years of Islamic culture to maybe 20 + years of anti -Jewish in Germany.

Do you not know what a pogrom is? Europe had a long history of committing pogroms against the Jews long before the Nazi party rose to power. It was simply European culture and tradition, who are we to judge?

 

[Resist the gov.]

Do you not know what a pogrom is? Europe had a long history of committing pogroms against the Jews long before the Nazi party rose to power. It was simply European culture and tradition, who are we to judge?

So what America has a long history of commiting crimes against African Americans i mean your argument makes no sense this woman is Iranian not any other race so would you care to elaborate?

 

[Agent Ferris]

So what America has a long history of commiting crimes against African Americans

Who are you to judge? By your logic we could reimplement slavery today and you nor anyone else would have the right to say a damn thing.

i mean your argument makes no sense this woman is Iranian not any other race so would you care to elaborate?

So acts of barbarity are only acts of barbarity when they are inflicted upon peoples of other races? The Nazi party was only acting within the cultural norms of of Europe. It may seem barbaric to you and I but to them it may have seemed right, who are you to judge?