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IQ: What's it good for? What's it not good for? Is it legit?

ataraxia said:
Richard Feynman, as you may know, was one of the most influential and revolutionary theoretical physicists of the second half of the 20th century. He was universally regarded as one of the fastest-thinking and most creative theorists in his generation. In the 1960s, he won the Nobel prize in physics for his work of quantum electrodynamics and field theory, and taught for most of his life at Cal Tech. After the Challenger shuttle disaster in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan tapped him to be part of the team which investigated what had gone wrong, and he was the one who figured out that the problem was with the frozen O-rings on the shuttle.

Back in high school he had taken an IQ test and only scored a 125. This, in a field where the average IQ is 180+. He was the professor to all those IQ 180+ kids.

www.psychologytoday.com

A Polymath Physicist on Richard Feynman's "Low" IQ and Finding Another Einstein

A conversation with Steve Hsu.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com
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I don't understand the point you are trying to make?

The story you just told runs along the lines of what I said about people being individuals and should be treated that way.
 
Grim17 said:
I don't understand the point you are trying to make?

The story you just told runs along the lines of what I said about people being individuals and should be treated that way.
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The point is to show IQ tests do not predict, or explain, anything- even in a field like theoretical physics.
 
vanceen said:
I'd be interested to hear a specific criticism of anything Peterson said in that video, based on any error he made in fact or in logic.
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I'd also be interested in that, but lets be honest here... It ain't going to happen.

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ataraxia said:
The point is to show IQ tests do not predict, or explain, anything- even in a field like theoretical physics.
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Considering universities are geared to take those who measure high in tests that universities invented to measure IQ, then they would have some use to universities.
 
ataraxia said:
The point is to show IQ tests do not predict, or explain, anything- even in a field like theoretical physics.
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I disagree, and so does a century of research into IQ. There are several possible reasons why he only scored a 125 on an IQ test early in life and it's my belief that his IQ is actually much higher than that.... It has to be.

IQ scores accurately predict how long it will take a person to learn a particular task, but it can not accurately predict how proficient at that task a person will be once they learn it.

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I think it would be a gross exaggeration to say that IQ measurements don't mean anything at all.

Two people chosen at random, one who scored 145 and one who scored 105, would most likely have significant differences in their cognitive abilities that most people would notice.

At the same time, it would also be a gross exaggeration to say that IQ results are measuring anything absolute, like measuring mass or volume or electric charge. The wooliness that comes into it across cultures is evidence of that.
 
lurchadams said:
There are times where attacking the source is justified. Like when the source (Peterson) is a total piece of shit. You love him because he's helping you wage your racist culture war. Republicans suck so hard.
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So, are you gonna explain why you say that?
 
If we use an automotive analogy, IQ is horsepower while emotional/intellectual maturity is traction.
A person with a high IQ, like say perhaps Elon Musk, who also lacks emotional & intellectual maturity, is like a Dodge Hellcat with 840 horsepower sporting Amish wagon wheels.
You can make a lot of noise and smoke but you're not going to get anywhere except sideways.
 
Grim17 said:
I disagree, and so does a century of research into IQ. There are several possible reasons why he only scored a 125 on an IQ test early in life and it's my belief that his IQ is actually much higher than that.... It has to be.

IQ scores accurately predict how long it will take a person to learn a particular task, but it can not accurately predict how proficient at that task a person will be once they learn it.
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who told you that?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
If we use an automotive analogy, IQ is horsepower while emotional/intellectual maturity is traction.
A person with a high IQ, like say perhaps Elon Musk, who also lacks emotional & intellectual maturity, is like a Dodge Hellcat with 840 horsepower sporting Amish wagon wheels.
You can make a lot of noise and smoke but you're not going to get anywhere except sideways.
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MOPAR?


Good analogy, except for the brand……;)


One of my mother’s favotites was the Chinese proverb: “big noise on stairs, nobody coming down.”

Probably referenced it more than once, here.
 
Grim17 said:
IQ scores accurately predict how long it will take a person to learn a particular task, but it can not accurately predict how proficient at that task a person will be once they learn it.

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And yet IQ tests scores are fluid across individuals' lifespans, training, and environment; as it is across demographics.

So again, it does not seem to be a useful predictor and explanation for why Jewish people more often become lawyers.
 
ataraxia said:
And yet IQ tests scores are fluid across individuals' lifespans, training, and environment; as it is across demographics.

So again, it does not seem to be a useful predictor and explanation for why Jewish people more often become lawyers.
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When it comes to the type of profession a person will pursue, that's where personality traits come into play. IQ can tell us what a person has the ability to do, but personality traits tell us what a person is best suited to do and what they will excel at doing.

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A high IQ brings progress, invention, inspiration.

People often confuse intellect with education. They are two very different things.
 
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Grim17 said:
Jordan Peterson answers all 3 of those questions and points out the thing that bothers me the most when it comes to IQ data:



I have no doubt that the IQ data that's been collected for a century now by scientists and psychologists is legitimate. While it shows that there's no difference between men and women when it comes to IQ, it has shown that there are differences between racial and ethnic groups, and that leads to the one problem I have when it comes to IQ data. Far too often people use IQ data as a means to determine the value of a person or group, and I find that reprehensible. As Peterson pointed out, there is no correlation between IQ and virtue, yet there are some who believe people or groups with higher IQs are better than people or group that score lower, and that's the kind of bullshit I can't stand.

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I think someone was onto this idea 40 years ago , Howard Gardner wrote a book called Frames of Mind , he defined the idea of multiple intelligences. First he defined 7 different ways of knowing. He added 2 other kinds of intelligence later. It explains why a brilliant English scholar couldn't be a nuclear physicist, and vice versa.

there is no correlation between IQ and virtue,
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Thanks for posting this. Did you post that knowing that Aesop wrote many fables with exactly that in mind?

They still say ' intelligence is what the test results find it is' . Creativity is impossible to measure. Is creative problem solving an intelligence some people have? Or does a great dancer not just have talent, but a real brain for it? How does anyone measure that?

Social desires are everything. Genes and gender are not. Moms and dads push their kids to get better in what they value most. Kids like it enough, they get better, grow out of it, we start over, moms and dad push ....
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
If we use an automotive analogy, IQ is horsepower while emotional/intellectual maturity is traction.
A person with a high IQ, like say perhaps Elon Musk, who also lacks emotional & intellectual maturity, is like a Dodge Hellcat with 840 horsepower sporting Amish wagon wheels.
You can make a lot of noise and smoke but you're not going to get anywhere except sideways.
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Lol, perfect. Very few sport horsepower and traction, aside from the motored compadres, of course.
 
Grim17 said:
I disagree, and so does a century of research into IQ. There are several possible reasons why he only scored a 125 on an IQ test early in life and it's my belief that his IQ is actually much higher than that.... It has to be.
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LOL openly admitting IQ tests fail to measure intelligence accurately but still proclaiming they measure intelligence accurately.

If you can practice the test and get a better score, that means it's testing a skill.
 
Deuce said:
LOL openly admitting IQ tests fail to measure intelligence accurately but still proclaiming they measure intelligence accurately.

If you can practice the test and get a better score, that means it's testing a skill.
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Sorry to disappoint you, but IQ tests have been established as accurate for a very long time.

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reflechissez said:
What is the basis for your assertion?
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I read that years more than 20 years ago. Professor Peterson also touches on it in the video I posted. He sets it up a little differently by using it in a job situation, but it's the same.

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