Iowa governor signs 'constitutional carry' law, residents may now carry a firearm without a permit

[HenryChinaski]

We had easy access to firearms back in the 1970's, so nothing has changed in that respect, so your premise of "love affair" and "easy access" are bunk.

What is going on with kids today, that was almost non existent back then?

I said I don't know. I was a kid in the 70s as well. I remember going outside playing cops and robbers with realistic looking toy guns that would get you killed today. America does have an addiction to firearms. They're ingrained in our culture like Coca-Cola.

 

[Cope]

Just because your little town has had "no mass shootings" doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked as to "why so many Americans including children are being mowed down in a single sweep" by psychopaths how somehow very easily acquire guns they shouldn't be anywhere near and what can be done to prevent that" My question to you is why do children need to carry shotguns on a bus to school? That ties in to my previous statement regarding Americas addiction the firearms.

What is the percentage of mass murder victims?
What is the percentage of all murders?
What is the percentage of all black on black murders?

You'll get to the logical thing eventually.

 

[HenryChinaski]

What is the percentage of mass murder victims?
What is the percentage of all murders?
What is the percentage of all black on black murders?

You'll get to the logical thing eventually.

What's the "logical thing"? Don't hold back..

 

[Cope]

What's the "logical thing"? Don't hold back..

Why would you highlight one thing to fixate on?

The facts are facts. When the facts don't back your assertions, you what? Pull the racist card!

I'm all aghast!

 

[jaeger19]

Just because your little town has had "no mass shootings" doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked as to "why so many Americans including children are being mowed down in a single sweep" by psychopaths how somehow very easily acquire guns they shouldn't be anywhere near and what can be done to prevent that" My question to you is why do children need to carry shotguns on a bus to school? That ties in to my previous statement regarding Americas addiction the firearms.

Sure we should ask this question regarding mass shooters. But you seem to already have formed the answer and then asked the question.
I pointed out that the evidence is clear that access to guns and your " obsession with guns " theory..doesnt hold up to logical scrutiny.
Why did we carry shotguns to school? So we could go hunting after school..or in the spring so we could shoot skeet or trap on the shooting team.
The folks that seem obsessed with guns are folks like you that seem to have a paranoia about what we gun owners see as a tool.
Almost all of these mass shooters seem to have a clear mental health history..so why are we not examining mental health treatment/ access in this country?

 

[HenryChinaski]

Sure we should ask this question regarding mass shooters. But you seem to already have formed the answer and then asked the question.
I pointed out that the evidence is clear that access to guns and your " obsession with guns " theory..doesnt hold up to logical scrutiny.
Why did we carry shotguns to school? So we could go hunting after school..or in the spring so we could shoot skeet or trap on the shooting team.
The folks that seem obsessed with guns are folks like you that seem to have a paranoia about what we gun owners see as a tool.
Almost all of these mass shooters seem to have a clear mental health history..so why are we not examining mental health treatment/ access in this country?

I carried a harmonica to school then a guitar. The US would be a much healthier nation if those were obsessed over rather than firearms.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

We had easy access to firearms back in the 1970's, so nothing has changed in that respect, so your premise of "love affair" and "easy access" are bunk.

What is going on with kids today, that was almost non existent back then?

It was mostly hunting guns back then.

 

[jaeger19]

I carried a harmonica to school then a guitar. The US would be a much healthier nation if those were obsessed over rather than firearms.

Actually America would be healthier if we focused on mental health rather than be paranoid about firearms.
As far as safety..when it comes to violent crime..America is on par or better than most first world countries.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I said I don't know. I was a kid in the 70s as well. I remember going outside playing cops and robbers with realistic looking toy guns that would get you killed today. America does have an addiction to firearms. They're ingrained in our culture like Coca-Cola.

Blaming the guns on a sick generation isn't the answer.

It was mostly hunting guns back then.

Hand guns are the number one weapon in mass shootings.

You gonna ban em?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Hand guns are the number one weapon in mass shootings.

You gonna ban em?

I never said anything about banning guns, I am merely pointing out that the gun culture of today is entirely different than what it was in the 70s. In the 70s and 80s, guns were mostly tools, typically used for hunting. Today, not nearly as many hunters and guns are often just expensive toys.

 

[jaeger19]

I never said anything about banning guns, I am merely pointing out that the gun culture of today is entirely different than what it was in the 70s. In the 70s and 80s, guns were mostly tools, typically used for hunting. Today, not nearly as many hunters and guns are often just expensive toys.

Actually the gun culture is the same. The only difference is the addition of more women.
There has been an influx of more newbies and tacticool..but overall the gun culture is the same.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Actually the gun culture is the same. The only difference is the addition of more women.
There has been an influx of more newbies and tacticool..but overall the gun culture is the same.

30 to 40 years ago, there were less overall firearms in private hands, but a much higher percentage of households owned guns. That said, they mostly owned shotguns and long rifles for hunting purposes. That isn't the case today. Not nearly as many households hunt, and a much higher percentage of gun owners own them simply for recreation or personal protection. As a lifelong gun owner, the culture around guns is a lot different now than what it was when I was a kid.

 

[jaeger19]

30 to 40 years ago, there were less overall firearms in private hands, but a much higher percentage of households owned guns. That said, they mostly owned shotguns and long rifles for hunting purposes. That isn't the case today. Not nearly as many households hunt, and a much higher percentage of gun owners own them simply for recreation or personal protection. As a lifelong gun owner, the culture around guns is a lot different now than what it was when I was a kid.

Well there were less firearms because when you were a kid the population of the us was less.
Now we have more guns because we have more people.
Hunting hasn't changed because of gun culture its changed because of loss of habitat to hunt and urbanization. It's really isn't because hunting has fallen off..its really because we have added a more urban population.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Well there were less firearms because when you were a kid the population of the us was less.
Now we have more guns because we have more people.
Hunting hasn't changed because of gun culture its changed because of loss of habitat to hunt and urbanization. It's really isn't because hunting has fallen off..its really because we have added a more urban population.

I am sorry but you are wrong on all that. For example, let's just take a state like Arkansas where I grew up. If anything, there is more land available for hunting today than there was 30 years ago due to purchases by the state conservation department, more and being leased by the timber companies for hunting, and greater access to national forest land (there are more roads into it today). Yet, there are less hunters per-capita than there was because less people hunt now than they used to, and Arkansas has more hunters than most states.

Decline In Hunters Threatens How U.S. Pays For Conservation

The steady drop is expected to accelerate in coming years, threatening the much-lauded model through which the U.S. has paid for conservation.

www.npr.org

Moreover, a lower percentage of households own guns today than 50 years ago. It's just that the households that do own guns, tend to own more guns per household than they used to. Gun culture is nothing like it used to be. When I was a kid, for most gun owning households, a gun was a tool in the same way that fishing rods, deer stands, and trotlines were.

This is evidenced by the types of guns being sold and manufactured today vs 40 years ago. For example, the top selling guns made my Remington historically was the 870 shotgun and the model 700 bolt action rifle. Both hunters guns. Today, 4 out of the 5 top selling rifles are ARs. It's just a different world in terms of gun culture today than what we had historically in this country. I am not saying it's worse or better, I am just saying its totally different and anyone that grew up with guns knows it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That is a factor as well, but we learned in Viet Nam, what armed, motivated civilians can accomplish. King George3 learned that hard lessen as well.

So you are concerned that "The Militia" is going to take over the country, are you?

BTW, until the fledgling American government abandoned "untrained civilians" to fight its battles and started "drilling soldiers into regular soldiers" it really wasn't doing all that well against the troops that the Brits could spare to deal with the fractious colonies. Fortunately for the fledgling American nation, the Brits got distracted from a distant, insignificant, colonial rebellion by the rise of Napoleon Bonaparte and the need to commit land and sea forces to defeating his imperial ambitions.

PS - Another thing that the US government learned in Vietnam was that supporting a venal and corrupt government that didn't have the support of the people against the will of the majority of the people only worked as long as you kept pouring money down the rat hole (and into the personal bank accounts of the people running that government). Unfortunately, that lesson was not one that the US government got correct when it was tested for "knowledge retention" (or "knowledge recall" [or even "knowledge relearning"]).

 

[mrdeltoid]

There's no real world scenario in which you or other veterans are relevant. Real life isn't Red Dawn. Any conventional military force large enough and powerful enough to overwhelm the US Military doesn't give two shits about old people with rifles in their closets, and any military exchange of that magnitude has already gone nuclear so you're probably already dead.

Your probably right. I'll tell you who does, or will give 2 shits about what I have in my gun safe. A bunch of rioters with umbrellas, clubs and fireworks. Haven't seen them breaking into houses in my neighborhood. That's a "real world scenario" where veterans like myself ARE relevant. The Korean store owners during the L.A. "unrest" proved armed citizens can protect their property when the police won't, or can't. I moved out of Baltimore a few months ago after my father died. I can tell you this, you won't see ANTIFA, BLM, or anybody else rioting in this community. I don't care how much you hate the US, veterans, or the constitution. There are about 20 million veterans that are armed, and know how to survive much worse than a bunch of jackasses with umbrellas, although they do have more courage than thumb thugs.

 

[mike2810]

Arizona has been an open carry State for years. More recently they made it easier to carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Arizona has been an open carry State for years. More recently they made it easier to carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

I am in favour of "Open Carry" (especially if "Concealed Carry" is heavily punished).

Quite frankly I want to know who is armed and who isn't.

In fact, I rather like the Washington State code which doesn't consider single action, black powder, non-cartridge, firearms to even be guns requiring permits at all and would support "Universal, Permitless, Open Carry" for all such weapons to be a very good compromise between "the right of self-defence" and "reasonable restrictions permissible in a modern society".

Face it, it's pretty damn difficult to "beat the record" for the number killed in a single shooting incident if all you have is a weapon that will give you 10 shots before you have to spend 10 minutes reloading it.

 

[jaeger19]

I am sorry but you are wrong on all that. For example, let's just take a state like Arkansas where I grew up. If anything, there is more land available for hunting today than there was 30 years ago due to purchases by the state conservation department, more and being leased by the timber companies for hunting, and greater access to national forest land (there are more roads into it today). Yet, there are less hunters per-capita than there was because less people hunt now than they used to, and Arkansas has more hunters than most states.

Decline In Hunters Threatens How U.S. Pays For Conservation

The steady drop is expected to accelerate in coming years, threatening the much-lauded model through which the U.S. has paid for conservation.

www.npr.org

Moreover, a lower percentage of households own guns today than 50 years ago. It's just that the households that do own guns, tend to own more guns per household than they used to. Gun culture is nothing like it used to be. When I was a kid, for most gun owning households, a gun was a tool in the same way that fishing rods, deer stands, and trotlines were.

This is evidenced by the types of guns being sold and manufactured today vs 40 years ago. For example, the top selling guns made my Remington historically was the 870 shotgun and the model 700 bolt action rifle. Both hunters guns. Today, 4 out of the 5 top selling rifles are ARs. It's just a different world in terms of gun culture today than what we had historically in this country. I am not saying it's worse or better, I am just saying its totally different and anyone that grew up with guns knows it.

I would suggest that you talk to your Fish and game in ARkansas. I would bet that Arkansas.. like other states.. has experienced a decrease in hunting access not an increase. The leases and the purchases by the fish and game are in many ways.. to try to stem the loss of hunting access. first farming has changed such that habitat is not as prevalent.. as farms "clean farm".. in addition.. now i would bet there is much more leased private land. Where if you are wealthy.. and can afford a lease.. sure you have access. But if you aren't able to pony up a thousand or more a head for a season deer/duck lease? I would bet your access have declined as fewer and fewer private land owners are giving permission.

Then there is the aging of the population.. decreasing younger hunters combined with the urbanization of your population:

Arkansas, based on the latest population estimates released by the U.S. Census Bureau, has gotten older, more urban and more diverse on average

As far as whats the best selling rifle? I am not sure thats the best indicator of the gun culture.

What was the best selling rifle and shotgun 1920? I bet it was different. What was the best rifle in 1890?

Technology and needs change. I guess if the measure of a change of gun culture is the firearms we use? Then about every decade the gun culture makes a rapid change since the rifles and shotguns change.

I don;t think the gun culture has changed as much as you think it has.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I would suggest that you talk to your Fish and game in ARkansas. I would bet that Arkansas.. like other states.. has experienced a decrease in hunting access not an increase. The leases and the purchases by the fish and game are in many ways.. to try to stem the loss of hunting access. first farming has changed such that habitat is not as prevalent.. as farms "clean farm".. in addition.. now i would bet there is much more leased private land. Where if you are wealthy.. and can afford a lease.. sure you have access. But if you aren't able to pony up a thousand or more a head for a season deer/duck lease? I would bet your access have declined as fewer and fewer private land owners are giving permission.

Then there is the aging of the population.. decreasing younger hunters combined with the urbanization of your population:



As far as whats the best selling rifle? I am not sure thats the best indicator of the gun culture.

What was the best selling rifle and shotgun 1920? I bet it was different. What was the best rifle in 1890?

Technology and needs change. I guess if the measure of a change of gun culture is the firearms we use? Then about every decade the gun culture makes a rapid change since the rifles and shotguns change.

I don;t think the gun culture has changed as much as you think it has.

The fact is, 40 years ago, most of your gun owning homes were homes were hunting families. These days, guns are more often bought for recreational purposes. That's why I pointed out what kind of guns used to be sold versus the most popular guns today. I am not even sure why are arguing that, it makes me think you don't know much about guns.

It is no different than boating culture. 40 years ago, most boats in private hands were fishing boats, today they are much more likely to be recreational.

Moreover, you obviously don't know shit about the south and hunting there. Most people hunt in deer hunting clubs. They pool their money and hunt leased land, typically its land leased from a timber company. I assure you most of the guys in any of the hunting clubs I was ever in were working people of fairly limited means. A lot of guys also hunt national forest, of which there is an abundance in the south. The only hunting that is kind of a rich man's sport is duck hunting or those guided hunts out west.

 

[jaeger19]

The fact is, 40 years ago, most of your gun owning homes were homes were hunting families. These days, guns are more often bought for recreational purposes. That's why I pointed out what kind of guns used to be sold versus the most popular guns today. I am not even sure why are arguing that, it makes me think you don't know much about guns.

It is no different than boating culture. 40 years ago, most boats in private hands were fishing boats, today they are much more likely to be recreational.

Moreover, you obviously don't know shit about the south and hunting there. Most people hunt in deer hunting clubs. They pool their money and hunt leased land, typically its land leased from a timber company. I assure you most of the guys in any of the hunting clubs I was ever in were working people of fairly limited means. A lot of guys also hunt national forest, of which there is an abundance in the south. The only hunting that is kind of a rich man's sport is duck hunting or those guided hunts out west.

Yeah.. i would submit that 40 years ago.. most gun owning homes were homes with guns for hunting, recreation and or personal protection. All three...
As far as guns. Again.. all three. And AR 15's platforms are very very popular for hunting. Especially for southern hunting out of stands.
Yeah.. I hunt all over the country. And I see and hear the same things regarding hunting access. And the fact is.. leases are getting expensive. Just going out and asking permission is getting to be a thing of the past.
I don't know about hunting in the south huh? BUT.. I knew that most hunting was on leased land.. hmmmm...
When was the last time you had a deer hunting lease in Arkansas. ?
When was the last time you hunted hogs and deer in Texas? Or quail in Georgia?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Yeah.. i would submit that 40 years ago.. most gun owning homes were homes with guns for hunting, recreation and or personal protection. All three...
As far as guns. Again.. all three. And AR 15's platforms are very very popular for hunting. Especially for southern hunting out of stands.
Yeah.. I hunt all over the country. And I see and hear the same things regarding hunting access. And the fact is.. leases are getting expensive. Just going out and asking permission is getting to be a thing of the past.
I don't know about hunting in the south huh? BUT.. I knew that most hunting was on leased land.. hmmmm...
When was the last time you had a deer hunting lease in Arkansas. ?
When was the last time you hunted hogs and deer in Texas? Or quail in Georgia?

People have always bitched about leases being expensive.

1. I don't see all that many AR 15 platforms used in hunting outside of hog hunting.

2. Been member of a hunting club with leased timber land since I was a child. I am not now, but my whole family still is down there. Hell my dad was the president of his club for over a decade and his father before him.

3. Hunted hogs in East Texas just a few years ago.

We are just going to have to agree do disagree as the question of gun culture is subjective and you will never convince me that it hasn't changed a lot over the course of my life.

 

[Deuce]

Your probably right. I'll tell you who does, or will give 2 shits about what I have in my gun safe. A bunch of rioters with umbrellas, clubs and fireworks. Haven't seen them breaking into houses in my neighborhood. That's a "real world scenario" where veterans like myself ARE relevant. The Korean store owners during the L.A. "unrest" proved armed citizens can protect their property when the police won't, or can't. I moved out of Baltimore a few months ago after my father died. I can tell you this, you won't see ANTIFA, BLM, or anybody else rioting in this community. I don't care how much you hate the US, veterans, or the constitution. There are about 20 million veterans that are armed, and know how to survive much worse than a bunch of jackasses with umbrellas, although they do have more courage than thumb thugs.

Yes, in an entirely different context, there's an entirely different situation. Bravo.

Hate veterans? **** off with that gaslighting bullshit. You're the one filled with hate.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Yes, in an entirely different context, there's an entirely different situation. Bravo.

Hate veterans? **** off with that gaslighting bullshit. You're the one filled with hate.
[/QUOTE
Awwwwwwww...need a hug??

 

[mrdeltoid]

I am in favour of "Open Carry" (especially if "Concealed Carry" is heavily punished).

Quite frankly I want to know who is armed and who isn't.

In fact, I rather like the Washington State code which doesn't consider single action, black powder, non-cartridge, firearms to even be guns requiring permits at all and would support "Universal, Permitless, Open Carry" for all such weapons to be a very good compromise between "the right of self-defence" and "reasonable restrictions permissible in a modern society".

Face it, it's pretty damn difficult to "beat the record" for the number killed in a single shooting incident if all you have is a weapon that will give you 10 shots before you have to spend 10 minutes reloading it.

So do criminals. They prefer unarmed victims.
As for the "single action, black powder carry", may be a hard sell to the criminal element. They tend to ignore laws, hence, the term "outlaws".